Hello.

 

My girlfriend and I have decided to buy the Skoda Fabia estate as our first car, and I have been researching the reliability of different engines.

As far as I understand, if we purchase a 2013 model or later the engines cam-belt will be less prone to failure, because the engine was redesigned in 2012.

 

I also read that the 1.2 12v, is more reliable than the 1.2 TSI, but I have not been able to confirm this anywhere.

I was hoping someone on this forum might know about the reliability of the different engine types?

 

Also.

I have found a good deal for a 2014 Fabia estate, 1.2 12v, with a mileage of around 120000km, the seller is private, but also a mechanic, and he has supposedly changed the timing chain, since it was broken.

Is there anything I should be aware of, when testing/looking at the car?

9 minutes ago, Posthuman said:

he has supposedly changed the timing chain, since it was broken.

Timing chains do not require routine replacement like belts do.

1 minute ago, KenONeill said:

Timing chains do not require routine replacement like belts do.

As far as I know I know it was changed because it was broken, and not due to a routine replacement.

14 minutes ago, Posthuman said:

Is there anything I should be aware of, when testing/looking at the car?

 

If the engine is smooth and quiet and pulls well then the job has been done properly and it should give many thousands of miles if trouble free motoring.

 

It's the chain tensioner that fails, leading to valve damage when the timing slips.

7 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

If the engine is smooth and quiet and pulls well then the job has been done properly and it should give many thousands of miles if trouble free motoring.

 

It's the chain tensioner that fails, leading to valve damage when the timing slips.

 

All right. Thank you!

So I should probably take it for a "long" test drive, and try to do high way speeds as well.

 

 

2012 there was a change of Chain Tensioner with 1.2 TSI from that that were having issues before then.

Those from late 2011 early 2012 on can be requiring changing again when people are reporting noisy ones as some people are.

 

When you go to 2015 &  Euro 6 ones in mk3 Fabias and they have a cambelt.

 

1 hour ago, Posthuman said:

So I should probably take it for a "long" test drive, and try to do high way speeds as well.

Yes but not just motorways, steep hills, twisty roads, test out high and low and very low revs.  Ask for the engine to be cold and unstarted before your test as a cold and warming engine - and car - can give good information, using your eyes, ears, smell and brain can tell you a lot.  If he's a dodgy mechanic he will have this stuff covered but he might also be lazy and sloppy and not bother - or he might be the much rarer decent person mechanic.

 

Also bear in mind the car is more than just the engine, more important are brakes, steering, suspension (all three include tyres, safety electrics, lights, wipers, blower, horn, etc..  You may also need to note how the clutch and transmission feel as the mechanic might not be the first owner and only bought the car to turn it around with a timing chain tensioner replacement.

 

If you are able to take along an appropriate and level scan tool that might at least tell you if the mechanic was too lazy to delete any error codes.

 

Good luck.

 

12 hours ago, nta16 said:

Yes but not just motorways, steep hills, twisty roads, test out high and low and very low revs.  Ask for the engine to be cold and unstarted before your test as a cold and warming engine - and car - can give good information, using your eyes, ears, smell and brain can tell you a lot.  If he's a dodgy mechanic he will have this stuff covered but he might also be lazy and sloppy and not bother - or he might be the much rarer decent person mechanic.

 

Also bear in mind the car is more than just the engine, more important are brakes, steering, suspension (all three include tyres, safety electrics, lights, wipers, blower, horn, etc..  You may also need to note how the clutch and transmission feel as the mechanic might not be the first owner and only bought the car to turn it around with a timing chain tensioner replacement.

 

If you are able to take along an appropriate and level scan tool that might at least tell you if the mechanic was too lazy to delete any error codes.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Hi Nigel.

 

Thank you for the thorough response.

We dont really have hills in Denmark, but I will be testing the other factors you mentioned.

 

What is "an appropriate and level scan tool"?

Thanks again.

1 hour ago, Posthuman said:

What is "an appropriate and level scan tool"?

 

 

1 hour ago, Posthuman said:

What is "an appropriate and level scan tool"?

A scan tool that has the functions required to check to the level of information you want.  The thing you plug in to see error codes and other information about the car from all it's computers and sensors.  The mechanic may well have one and be willing to plug it in to show you its results and readings.  It could give no error codes before the test drive as there are none or he has took the trouble to clear them beforehand but after the test drive there may be error codes (without any warning lights or messages given by the car).

 

Live data shown on the scan tool is very useful but you do need to know what to look at and for and interpret, a level of knowledge that is generally well beyond me, and probably at the moment beyond you, so don't worry about it unless you have your own tame mechanic with a good level scan tool. 

 

It is useful to have a scan tool but not essential as a car can show no error codes and still have problems, big or small.  As I put you can still use your senses and brain without a machine to help you.  If you are inexperienced with cars then take someone along with you that has more experience or with a car you are sure you want to purchase pay for a professional check of the car.

 

Anything you note or find perhaps worth asking about, or told "they all do that" then ask here as there are a lot of knowledgeable people (this excludes me in anything technical or mechanical).

 

As a total generalisation many of those in the motor trade (people), not all, have a bad attitude towards those that buy cars and have them worked on, they think of these customers (people) as something they have trod in and need to wipe of the the bottom of their footwear.  Not all by many in my experience.  There are of course also bad customers and car purchasers (people) too I can also assure you of that.

 

Do not go around thinking all in the motor trade or general public are bad just be aware that some are and the motor trade fosters a larger proportion than may be expected.

 

Good luck.

 

2 minutes ago, nta16 said:

A scan tool that has the functions required to check to the level of information you want.  The thing you plug in to see error codes and other information about the car from all it's computers and sensors.  The mechanic may well have one and be willing to plug it in to show you its results and readings.  It could give no error codes before the test drive as there are none or he has took the trouble to clear them beforehand but after the test drive there may be error codes (without any warning lights or messages given by the car).

 

Live data shown on the scan tool is very useful but you do need to know what to look at and for and interpret, a level of knowledge that is generally well beyond me, and probably at the moment beyond you, so don't worry about it unless you have your own tame mechanic with a good level scan tool. 

 

It is useful to have a scan tool but not essential as a car can show no error codes and still have problems, big or small.  As I put you can still use your senses and brain without a machine to help you.  If you are inexperienced with cars then take someone along with you that has more experience or with a car you are sure you want to purchase pay for a professional check of the car.

 

Anything you note or find perhaps worth asking about, or told "they all do that" then ask here as there are a lot of knowledgeable people (this excludes me in anything technical or mechanical).

 

As a total generalisation many of those in the motor trade (people), not all, have a bad attitude towards those that buy cars and have them worked on, they think of these customers (people) as something they have trod in and need to wipe of the the bottom of their footwear.  Not all by many in my experience.  There are of course also bad customers and car purchasers (people) too I can also assure you of that.

 

Do not go around thinking all in the motor trade or general public are bad just be aware that some are and the motor trade fosters a larger proportion than may be expected.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Thanks again!

 

I do not have a scan tool, nor a friend who is knowledgeable, nor am I experienced with the technicalities of a cars workings.

It sounds like it would be worth it to get the car checked by a professional mechanic before I make a purchase.

 

I will have to use my gut feeling in regards to mechanic.

I personally would treat a chain replacement on a 1.2/12V as a big 'avoid' red flag.  

120 000km or before (when exactly, do you know?) is very early to have had chain trouble, so it suggests that maintenance of the engine throughout its life has been questionable.

 

 

Hello Pete.

 

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

 

I am planning to ask the seller regarding the service history.

Would you still avoid the car, even if the service was done with the right intervals?

Yes I probably would still avoid it to be honest. 

There's a reason the chain had problems, there's a reason the seller is getting rid of it, there's a reason it seems like a 'good deal'.  I wouldn't want to become involved with such a vehicle.

ETA: Pete answered as I was still typing but my post also relates generally so I've left it.  And yes if you are serious on buying a particular car get it checked professionally but as these checks cost be sure of the car and you wanting it before paying out on a check and also check there are no outstanding finance on the car or that it's even not stolen or a former write-off or any other thing in your country.  And yes go by your gut on the mechanic or anyone else but do bear in mind you do not have to like the person you are buying from or that a very likable person is good to buy from.  There are benefits from buying privately but after you have seen a few cars you will see why many people prefer to trade-in and buy from garages and Dealerships hoping for protection on their purchase which they may or may not get to the full extent of what they want or need.  Cars sales/purchase are the second most emontional after homes.  

 

Pete made a very point so I'd leave the answer to that to him.

 

Generally, it depends what is meant by a service, often most just think of an engine oil and filter change and that is required as far as the engine goes but there is also the quality of the parts and work (thoroughness) in that and the timeliness and frequency.  Then the engine also needs clean air so same for the air filter, and the spark plugs, when required the cleaning of other engine components and sensors.

 

That is just the engine of course, remember the more important are brakes, steering, suspension (all three include tyres, safety electrics, lights, wipers, blower, horn, etc..

 

You can sometimes check history by checking the paperwork, receipts and bills, put them in reverse chronological and check that they relate to the car you are looking at at the mileage and other details match up to other information on the car (MoT test dates and mileage for UK cars).

 

Many mechanics even if they do good or reasonable work for others can be very sloppy and rushed with any work they do on cars they get just to sell on.    

I found another Fabia Estate for sale, which is in our budget.

This one is a 1.2 TSI, with 182.000km on it, and better equipment (the first one mentioned, had none)

 

it has had regular service, most at official vw/skoda mechanics, and never had any major parts changed, the seller says that the engine sounds healthy

Do you think this Is a safer bet?

or is the 182.000km to much mileage already?

 

I heard that the engines can run for 3-400.000km, if well taken care of, is that a correct assumption?

When was the car / engine built.  Was it before the revised timing chain tensioner was introduced, late 2011?    What was done at serviced matters.  That can be just oil and filter changes.  So has it had spark plugs changed a couple of times or recently?    What power output of 1.2tsi.     why would a seller say the engine does not sound healthy?   Unless a very honest seller. 

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

When was the car / engine built.  Was it before the revised timing chain tensioner was introduced, late 2011?    What was done at serviced matters.  That can be just oil and filter changes.  So has it had spark plugs changed a couple of times or recently?    What power output of 1.2tsi.     why would a seller say the engine does not sound healthy?   Unless a very honest seller. 

 

It is i 2013 model, i rang Skoda and they told me it was was manufactured 20/05/2012.

I will have to look at the service book, when i look at the car today.

 

The power output is 86HP (63kw), and it is a 4 cylinder.

 

I specifically asked the seller regarding rattling noices with the enigne, i dont see why he would lie about this, as i will hear the engine myself when i am test driving it.

Well one reason is they might want to sell the car, the other is their hearing might not be great.

Another can be because they put in thicker oil to shut up a noisy car.

 

That would be someone like me that might do that, there are plenty about like that.     

 

The 1.2 TSI Euro 5 Engines are 4 cylinder, they come with different power outputs. 

 

If it shows annual services Minor & Major then fine enough, 

it would be good if the brake fluid shows as having been changed a couple of times, or you might get that done. 

 

 

All right, thank you for your input.

43 minutes ago, Posthuman said:

I will have to look at the service book, when i look at the car today.

Stamps in a service book can mean very little.  Follow as tootoot has put plus also see if any additional service maintenance has carried out, possibly a few times, coolant, (transmission, steering fluid changes show more care than usual), air filter, any sensors changing or cleaning and wear parts like brakes, tyres, clutch, suspension.  There a lot more to servicing a vehicle than just the usual engine oil & filter and "free visual inspections".  A car of that age and mileage should have a reasonable file of history.

 

Check the paperwork for the spread of mileage, high mileage isn't a bad thing but it depends how it's spread over the life of the vehicle.

 

Check any history by checking the paperwork, receipts and bills, put them in reverse chronological order and check that they relate to the car you are looking at at the mileage and other details match up to other information on the car (MoT test dates and mileage for, "road tax", for UK cars).

 

Edited 31 August, 20223 yr by nta16

Jeez there's some overthinking going on in here, @Posthumanjust go and look at the cars and test drive them both so you can form an opinion about which engine variant would suit you better, the 1.2TSI will be MUCH more torquey due to the turbo.

Totally agree with test driving different engine types (transmissions) but only driving one example of each tells you little about the differences in the engines as you need to drive a few examples of each to try to establish what each different type of engine is like as the examples could each be good, bad or indifferent.  Unless you already know you will be learning this about the models for a first time (unless you're old then you have relearn from forgetting).

 

@sepulchrave it's alright for you you've very experience and know what dodger sods you get in  the motor trade and engineering but even you once had to learn a first time, after that obviously you're never wrong even if things have changed since you learnt, sorry, first knew.  😉

 

Edited 31 August, 20223 yr by nta16

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

 

@sepulchrave it's alright for you you've very experience and know what dodger sods you get in  the motor trade and engineering but even you once had to learn a first time, after that obviously you're never wrong even if things have changed since you learnt, sorry, first knew.  😉

 

 

It's not even that, it's the practical limitations of inspecting and test driving a car, particularly one that's nearly ten years old, it's just not possible to catch everything, there's always a certain amount of luck involved.

 

Modern downsized turbo engines seem particularly unreliable across most brands, they seem barely able to make it to 10 years or 100k without spitting the dummy expensively, timing chains have made reliability worse not better and many new designs are using belts again for this reason.

 

The secret is to buy a car cheaply enough that it doesn't matter if it needs work.

Even professionals get caught out buying used cars it's just a matter of trying to limit the possibility of a bad purchase and increase the possibilities of a reasonable purchase.  Buying cheaply to allow for work is only really effective if you can do the work yourself.

 

Getting a smaller engine and force feeding it obviously puts more pressure and wear and that's before any smart arse tinkering with different injection - unpopular view warning - if you're looking at a German/European maker that's relied on the design and manufacturing, dare I say engineering (oh, I have) engine design, builds safety and comfort manufacturing margins of bigger engines previously then they might not be as experienced as some other manufacturers of smaller engines that have added a turbo and lost a cylinder well back in history.

 

Car life longevity I think has gone passed it's peak point and is sliding back to the levels us old folk can recognised - thank gawd the computer systems are there to improve things, wot could possibly go wrong. 🤣

 

Making a poor decision on a car purchase can lead to expensive misery - I think I can out-trump most on that so have good (bad) level of experience and knowledge - but it's not recognised with a qualification or certificate, though I could set up my own. 🤣

 

Edited 31 August, 20223 yr by nta16