Fabia 2014

 

I was driving along a motorway last night when these warning (ESC warning light (red) and EPC light) lights came on.

There was a loss of power and what seemed like a mis-fire within the engine.

 

Would the ESC failure cause this loss of power ?

I looked at the engine bay and the Fabia engine seems to be jumping a bit - seems like a mis-fire to me.

 

I was surprised to experience the ESC failure causing this type of issue.

 

Any help appreciated as to what this issue could be.

?

What engine, a 1.2 TSI?

 

Maybe a battery earth / loose terminal issue.

  Maybe the EPC was a misfire because of a Spark plug or Ignition Coil. 

 

So things need checked, any fault codes read to see if misfires have been logged. 

 

............

A member with a 1.2 TSI Rapid posting a year ago with nearly the same experience.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/501916-stabalisation-control-esc-and-engine-shaking

 

Edited 12 February, 20233 yr by toot

Thanks toot. 

It is a 1.2 TSI  and yes, it looks like the same issue as the posting a year ago.

 

I will change the spark plug tomorrow and update.

 

Cheers

Check no.3 plug lead resistance, should be around 9k ohms (OEM lead). Very common issue is this lead goes open circuit due to heat damage. Hence misfires, EPC and ESC/traction control lit.

 

Remove the spark plug boot with an appropriate tool, don't pull by the lead as you will probably break the core

On 12/02/2023 at 18:25, xman said:

Check no.3 plug lead resistance, should be around 9k ohms (OEM lead). Very common issue is this lead goes open circuit due to heat damage. Hence misfires, EPC and ESC/traction control lit.

 

Remove the spark plug boot with an appropriate tool, don't pull by the lead as you will probably break the core

Just posting an update - the problems was a No 1 coil pack failure. Replaced that and it has sorted out the problem

 No 1 coil pack failure.

 No 1 coil pack failure fixed this

Many thanks to all contributors

Jumping in on this thread, as it predicted the error I found and am now attempting to Resolve. I started experiencing symptoms of this problem about 9000 miles before any error codes started to appear, so maybe this could help inform someone who's just starting to come across the issue. 

 

Situation:

2014 Fabia MK2 Tsi juddering or skipping when accelerating. Purchased from a local dealer about a year ago with just over 62000 miles and a solid service history, including sparks that are technically within expected lifespan.  The car exhibited small amounts of skipping / juddering / momentary loss of power when accelerating hard under load, at higher speeds (accelerating to overtake, joining motorway slip roads etc). Infrequent at first, but over the next 10,000 miles progressed to become pretty much guaranteed when hitting the above scenarios. Two local "Skoda specialist" garages failed to even replicate the issue, or diagnose but still charged for the privilege. I called two main dealers who advised it wasn't worth their time and this wouldn't be the result of sparks or ignition, presumably trying to upsell me work on a clutch or the ESC control system. 

 

About 1000 miles ago, one of these judders was much more substantial, and up came the ESC error, EPC light and traction warning light came on and the engine completely locked down all power just as I pulled onto the motorway. Turning the car on and off when I was able to pull over resolved the issue. Plugging an OBD into the car the next day revealed no errors. Fast forward to this week, similar occurrence overtaking a Truck on the M3, pulled into fleet services. Car was juddering even while idle, and plugging the OBD in before turning the car off revealed the P0301 cylinder 1 misfire error, as this forum thread, and the cited one (http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/501916-stabalisation-control-esc-and-engine-shaking) also suggests. 

 

Action:

Now I have confirmed diagnosis, I'm going to go ahead with replacing sparks, ignition leads, and then potentially the Coil Pack. This configuration is different to the non-Tsi engines (with only three cylinders), and there seems to be some misdirected advice on various forums, as many engines seem to have coils and leads separate. 

I'll change just the four sparks and ignition leads first to see if this resolves the issue (also should only cost less than £90 for NGK parts). If the issue persists, I will also replace the coil pack, but this is more expensive and I'm hoping that it's a few steps removed from the problem. 

 

Outcome:

I'll add an update if this issue can be resolved just through sparks and leads. 

Following the above, outcomes for changing sparks and HT leads (but not the coil pack).

It seems to have completely resolved the issue. All symptoms of juddering under acceleration have now gone, tested both with hard acceleration in low gears, and the typical higher speed, higher gear acceleration that first presented the issue.

The sparks in my Cylinder 1 (the one misfiring with error code P0301) looked gopping. I think the coil had been poorly inserted with some signs of water damage and corrosion on the exterior face, and the spark prongs (if that's the word for the bits the spark gaps across) were pretty heavily eroded. These had apparently been replaced about 3 years ago, and done about 16000 miles, I'm not sure if the condition matches that description.

Similar external corrosion on my cylinder 4 too but the spark gap looked a little less grimey.

Leads (with coils attached) seemed to be in good shape, but these were cheap enough to replace, and had been installed fairly poorly in the first place, with rubber seals at both ends bunched and degraded. NGK set was about £45 on Amazon.

Image above showing the old leads in place before removing.

I would absolutely recommend using one of this type of coil puller (below). This is the one you need for the Tsi engines with coils attached to the leads - Like my MK2 Fabia 1.2Tsi . I managed to get my old coils out with some plumbers pliers, which definitely damaged them, but I didn't care as I was replacing them anyway. Having the below puller would have made it much easier, and far easier to insert the new coils in afterwards too - they're pretty firm to push in and hard to hold secure and straight. These are about £4.99 on eBay, but mine got lost by Royal Mail.

All in all, managed to get 4 NGK spark plugs and a new set of leads for £90. Took about 30 mins to replace, with a clean in between to get any bits of debris out of the spark plug recesses (and a lot of dead wasps for some reason).

I didn't replace the coil pack that sits on top of the engine, and it seems to work fine without a new one. No more juddering, no more error codes. The coil pack would have been about other £80 or so, maybe £65 on a good deal, but this is easier to access and I'll change at a later date if I have to.

As a weird side note, my car had also recently been showing some strange things on the dashboard whenever the lights were on. When the headlights (but not the DRLs) were on, the Tyre Pressure Warning light was very dimly lit, only noticeable in the dark. It would not be lit whenever the dashboard or exterior lights were off. If any light on the dashboard was present (parking brake, seatbelt, etc) so too was the ominous orange glow from the TPI light.

I took this to the garage too, but they couldn't identify. I'd also see the washer fluid warning light flash very dimly whenever indicating left. I originally thought this could just be light from adjacent parts of the dash bleeding through, but replacing the sparks and leads seems to have fixed this. I may have been getting some shorting or minor electrical inference, but no more.

Hopefully this is useful to someone. From the various forums I've searched this seems to be a common occurrence across a lot of Tsi engines across the whole VW group range.

Also jumping in on this. My 2014 fabia doesn’t get a lot of use, mostly just very short journeys. But on occasional longer journeys the engine has been snatching when accelerating. Garage couldn’t find a fault when they did the service last year.

Had it serviced (full service) and MoT done last month. It needed new brake fluid but sailed through MoT. Today did a longish trip - 70 miles this morning, 40 this evening. The snatching on the second trip was worse, then just before I got home, the EPC light came on. I got home, turned the engine off and gave it a few minutes before turning it back on - no EPC light.

Surely if the spark plugs were dodgy the garage would have picked this up during the service? Will the code reader thingummy identify a fault that is no longer showing? There is another thread on here that suggests 95 fuel could cause the problem and that 98 is better.

Is the car safe to drive if the EPC light does not recur? Should I take it into the garage anyway? I know nowt about engines so have no idea what to do.

In my experience with this issue, a garage will go as far as plugging an OBD / fault reader in, and if that doesn't show an issue, they won't look any further. I had two garages do this, even when I told them I suspected the spark plugs to be the issue, based on these forum threads. When I spoke to a main dealer, describing symptoms and my suspected cause, they said it couldn't possibly be that, and wanted me to get a full clutch replacement for about £4000.

Realistically, if you're taking the spark plugs out to inspect them, it's probably easier to put new ones in than the originals. They might be hesitant to do so without good cause. I'll be honest I'm still not completely certain why the sparks, leading to an intermittent misfire ends up causing issues with the ESC, but hey. I can see why garages are sceptical to just replace them if they're within life expectancy.

If you can't remember when you last had sparks (and or leads) changed. Or if they were over 10,000 miles / maybe 2 years ago, it's probably fair to get them replaced, they're not too expensive. I'd be surprised if a garage charged more than about £200 for parts and labour, and worst case you've only replaced a maintenance part a bit sooner than necessary.

Mine showed some signs of corrosion, presumably from water getting in the seal around the coils, so even if the car has been sat, they could be a little worse for wear.

The symptoms sound very similar to my issue, resolved as above. But I'm aware describing snatching, juddering and skipping is all very vague and quite hard to check if we mean the same feeling. My OBD only showed an error when the EPC light was on. As soon as I turned the car off for a while and let the EPC light go off, the OBD didn't show a code anymore.

I'll also add, I separately was running an experiment running both E95 and E99 for prolonged periods (3 months alternating periods, about 4000 miles a pop) to check fuel economy, and found it made absolutely zero difference to the symptoms while I had this.

In terms of safety, on the two occasions the EPC light came on, I just drove it home / to the next services and no further before turning off, letting it reset and carrying on, albeit cautiously with the accelerator. I don't think it'll be fatal, but you definitely lose all ability to accelerate, which was not ideal.

Edited 6 July, 20256 Jul by FossilWorks

@Bouicca21 If you are in the UK then there is no 98 octane petrol sold.

It is E5 97 or 99 ron minimum.

95 ron in the UK is E10.

When were the spark plugs last changed, any history, any time in the last 40,000 miles / 4 years as per the Schedule , guidelines, recommendation, advice?

Edited 6 July, 20256 Jul by Ootohere

Many thanks. Yes, I’m talking about a juddering, loss of acceleration for a few minutes (maybe just seconds but feels longer) before it picks up again. Not the sort of thing you want to cope with on the M25 when it’s busy.

So the collective wisdom is that it’s unlikely to be the petrol, just get new spark plugs fitted and hope that sorts it out? I have no memory of ever paying for new spark plugs, but I’d have to check my paperwork (if I can find it). The car is old but has very low mileage - I used it quite a bit when I first had it, but I don’t really need a car any more, hence very little use.

Update. I had the spark plugs changed but diagnostics also told me that I needed a new ignition coil and ignition lead. Cross fingers, all ok now, though I won’t know for sure until I have a chance to do a longish journey.