The government has a cunning plan to discourage people from buying ICE cars and encourage people to buy EVs.

https://archive.ph/pfIOI

How to alienate voters in one easy lesson 

Truth of the matter.

In the EU and in the UK the car makers have to meet Fleet Average Co2 emission figures.

 

So manufacturers that have not the pure ICE vehicles and electrified ones to meet the requirement without being fined for all cars with too high emissions they partner with manufacturers with low / zero emission vehicles.

VW with MG/ SAIC and others,  JLR with Tesla.       So the kidology / rationing is happening. AKA as cheating. 

 

Now the UK has its own Fleet average and the EU it's own.

 

 

Loopholes. Grey areas, and downright kidology.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 24 April, 20233 yr by toot

26 minutes ago, EnterName said:

The government has a cunning plan to discourage people from buying ICE cars and encourage people to buy EVs.

https://archive.ph/pfIOI

 

More  likely that virtual nobody will want ICE cars unless it is a real enthusiasts model ie Ferrari with a great engine sound track, as running an EVs will be so much cheaper than running an ICE car.

 

The inventory of Chinese brands is equivalent to 54 days of sales, the stock of joint venture garages is 64 days, and the stock of luxury brand cars is equivalent to 70 days of sales.  According to the disclosure, more than 75% of the inventory is ICEs, while the rest is PHEVs and EVs. Considering that PHEVs and EVs account for more than 35% of the total sales in the Chinese market, EVs’ stock is equivalent to approximately 40-50 days of sales. ICEs’ stock is equivalent to approximately 70 days of sales.

 

We are already seeing it in China where EVs cost no more than a ICE car but cost a fraction to run as electricity is a tiny fraction of the energy running cost of buying Hydrocarbon fuel.  Chinese manufacturers are now turning their attention to flood Europe and USA, following on from the successful sales of MG cars and of course TESLA which the Model Y will be the best selling car in most large markets.

 

https://carnewschina.com/2023/03/21/china-had-3-41-million-cars-in-stock-in-february-2023/

 

 

 

Dealerships, particularly those with a small percentage of EV sales, will continue to go to the wall by the hundreds a thousands as percentage of cars on the road quickly slip from being ICE to being EV and as the EV servicing costs are a fraction of ICE those delears are no longer financial viable when you can pick up your TESLA from the docks and hardly ever see a servicing garage.  

 

Not a shortage of ICE cars, a glut of ICE cars that can only be sold with big discount and anybody with more than a modicum of economic sense will avoid as electricity becomes abundantly cheap and Arab controlled oil supplies squeeze supply to keep it commodity price high.    

 

Edited 24 April, 20233 yr by lol-lol

ICE vehicles will be around for a long time yet.  Yes the proportion of new sales will drop a bit now but will then increase just before the ban comes in but either way ICE vehicles will still be on the road 25 years from now 

47 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

electricity becomes abundantly cheap

That will only happen when/if Governments break the link between oil/gas costs and the prices of electricity to consumers (which is currently artificially high) - and there's no sign of them doing that anytime soon despite the costs of green generating having dropped as volumes increases and technology improves.

It is not that expensive on domestic tariffs as it is even if @ 40 pence a kWh.

If that buys you 10 kWh for £4 and you get 3.5 miles per kWh then that is 70 miles for £8.

35 pence a kWh standard tariff, is 70 miles for £7. 

 

It is public slow charging or rapid costing the same or even double that or more is the real issue.

But then there is 20% VAT on that.

Plenty help around for commercial / business users but not so much for those private motorists or those without home charging. 

 

But then so many vehicles on the roads are commercial / business users, commercial travellers, light delivering vehicles, couriers, taxis etc.

So restriction and withdrawal of Tax Relieve and incentives to those buying ICE vehicles and the requirement on tax payer / pubic purchased local authority and government agency vehicles is where more needs done. 

 

Obviously the UK Government cars should now only be Electric, Hydrogen or pedal / clown cars. 

No apologies for dumbing down this thread, but if the Govt want the masses to go for EV instead of ICE cars then they need bigger carrots and smaller sticks in their approach.

 

What that looks like is probably an individual thing but I'll start with sorting out the charging infrastructure - increased availability of fast charging points, charging points that actually work, and in places where people want to stop on long journeys (so not only in the supermarket car park).

HGV Drivers require 'Halt / rest services with toilets and facilities road side the length and breadth of the UK roads network'.

 

These should be 'Publicly owned land and facilities and could be transport hubs for EV charging vehicle small and large',  and should take priority of land use before any more homes or industrial sites or retail ones get planning permission. 

If franchised there has to be restrictions on the prices / tariffs and profits the operators charge and get.

 

Using training facilities and production lines, Pre fabricated / scaled to meet the locations and built by trainees / apprentices as part of a job creation scheme for the youth and unemployed in the UK. 

 

Not going to happen though. 

9 minutes ago, toot said:

Not going to happen though

Sadly all too true. Your ideas a way too good for any Govt to enact 🙄

3 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

That will only happen when/if Governments break the link between oil/gas costs and the prices of electricity to consumers (which is currently artificially high) - and there's no sign of them doing that anytime soon despite the costs of green generating having dropped as volumes increases and technology improves.

 

That is based on the assumption that everyone gets their electricity from the Grid.

There is a vast change over of UK citizens who generate their own and even supply back to the grid.

It expected that in the emerging generation of solar panels are going to be 150% better than the existing one ie going from 20% or so efficiency to over 50% or individuals producing way more than they need is going to be common place. " Come round my house and charge you car up".  Friends are free on I can sell you 10 kwh for a quid.  50kwh for a fiver which will take your EV 150 to 200 miles. 

 

Then there are those of us who down load that cheap electricity after midnight for 7.5p per kWh or so.  Home battery storage becoming every cheaper.

 

Electricity could become like bootlegged fags or weed being sold around between solar generators, off peak downloaders with battery storage selling to those unfortunates who cannot generate and store so have to buy at the expensive times during morning and late afternoon peaks.

 

kWh could become a commodity millions of UK citizens pass on or sell to each other completely outside the control of the national grid.  Transit vans with storage batteries patrolling service stations selling electrical charge at less than 50 p per kWh rather than the official power at 79p per kWh.  Its probably coming near you or perhaps already here according to ZAP maps private locations/driveways.     

 

1 hour ago, SteveTheElder said:

No apologies for dumbing down this thread, but if the Govt want the masses to go for EV instead of ICE cars then they need bigger carrots and smaller sticks in their approach.

 

What that looks like is probably an individual thing but I'll start with sorting out the charging infrastructure - increased availability of fast charging points, charging points that actually work, and in places where people want to stop on long journeys (so not only in the supermarket car park).

 

Over half of advanced economies have subsidies for EVs, the UK longer does.  Did for a while and I benefited from this but then I had a mass of VAT on my bill for a relatively expensive cars which EVs in all cases are (We do not get the Dacia Spring, made in China, here unfortunately that most of Europe does).

 

UK Government could reduce the VAT on EVs to 5% or something in between 5% and 20% to encourage sales as a way forward to promote EVs from its existing take.

 

It appears the biggest mover for change is a combination of Elon Musk and the EV tech ie traction battery advances and tumbling costs which will make EVs the natural choice over ICE cars.  

 

Over 12k in my Zoe, never done a fast charge and want to avoid it as lots of evidence it double the rate of battery decay using fast charging over home or destination charging at 0.2 C or less is for a 50 kWh battery nothing over 10kW.   DId once using a 16 kW charge but 3 hase chargers are quite rare, occasional see them labelled as 11,16 or 22 kW but most turn out to be 7 .2 kW, which is not too bad if I am going to be there for a couple of hours for work or a meal or the like.   Next car might have a mixture of Lithium Phosphate and Sodium batteries I would reckon, quite a move from my pure Lithium ion tech in my 52 kWh Zoe.  Newer chemistry will be much better in colder weather and much cheap and so the Renault 4 and 5 which will replace my Zoe, and hopefully we will get RHD Dacia Springs, will be better suited to our cooler late autumn, winter and early spring months as the present scenarios when the car only is fully awake over 15C is a bit of a drawback in these cooler climate zones.

 

Will miss the singing note of the three cylinder super efficient 900 cc Renault engine and cannot wait until a charge up gives a similar 500 miles of range when I fill it with petrol, same as in the Arkana but more like 550 miles in that case.  The future is bright, the future is electric. 

 

For info - latest Govt car mileage forecast splits by fuel from the National Road Traffic Projections of later 2022:

 

As I said - ICE vehicles will be around for many years yet...

2 hours ago, skomaz said:

For info - latest Govt car mileage forecast splits by fuel from the National Road Traffic Projections of later 2022:

 

As I said - ICE vehicles will be around for many years yet...

 

Looks like a bit of not knowing what is happening after 2045.  With the percentages almost not changing then is my old Department, before I took my commission with HMCE/HMRC, thinking the numerous ICE vehicles over 10 and 15 years old are continuing to work on the road ?   Sounds bizarre with tech moving forward, cheap electricity and ever evolving ban on ICE vehicles in urban areas. 

 

Technology continues tom move at current pace it is hard to imagine ICE engines maintaining any market share beyond 2035 and if so would that probably be hydrogen anyways, not even mentioned in the graph above.  Anyone for methane or methanol ?

 

Even against current EV tech ICE vehicles are slow accelerating and expensive to service and that situation get worst every year and EVs continue to get improve range by about 10% per year whilst lower cost by about the same.  ICE cars just get more complicated, more expensive to fix and extra care like adding AdBlue.   

 

Best ICe feature at present is as their thermal efficiency is so poor they produce lots of waste heat to keep one toastie in cooler temperatures and currently they can go about twice as far as an EV without needing refueling but the range difference is changing in EV's favour at a pace and those better EVs fitted with heat pumps are quite so bad that suing the heating is a big negative for range, it is the lithium chemistry which is poor in cool conditions and it looks like mixing the battery pack with some cheap sodium cells cures that.  I reckon ICE cars will be rarer than EVs are now by 2040 at the latest, maybe they will be gutting many ICE body shells to fit EV gubbins so not to waste so many ICE chassis. 

 

Scotland plan or the SNP governments is 20% reduction in car km by 2030.

 

Not miles actual kilometers as they think they will be in the EU by that time.

http://transport.gov.scot/our-approach/environment/20-reduction-in-car-km-by-2030

 

My plan would be very simple, straighten out the roads and it will maybe shorten the distance to drive or rip up the train tracks as the trains are not running anyway and tarmac them and run electric or hydrogen buses along those routes.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Looks like a bit of not knowing what is happening after 2045.  With the percentages almost not changing then is my old Department, before I took my commission with HMCE/HMRC, thinking the numerous ICE vehicles over 10 and 15 years old are continuing to work on the road ?   Sounds bizarre with tech moving forward, cheap electricity and ever evolving ban on ICE vehicles in urban areas. 

 

 

Not really bizarre - just fact.  People will continue to run ICE vehicles (not just cars but LGVs and HGVs too.  It's a standard S-Curve response - initial slow take up of EVs that increases and then declines towards a flatline proportion, as those who want to have already done so.  As for the Petrol curve that hump approaching 2025 reflects those that want to keep running an ICE vehicle and will purchase just before the ban comes in.  It's actually totally logical.

 

Typical example - one of the vehicles I run was first registered in February 1995 (so 28 years old).  It's low mileage in great condition and still fun to drive.  I wouldn't have dreamt of getting rid of it six years ago and have no intention of doing so for many years...  Why on earth would I just because someone thinks it's a bit old and an EV might be cheaper to run - that's totally not the point!?

 

If you think of the situation now - how many Y-Reg vehicles do you see on the road?  Quite a lot in some areas as they are cheap and many are very much still serviceable.

 

And that's not forgetting those owning 'classics' or similar.

 

To me your response suggests you are quite out of touch with reality on certain things.

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

There is a vast change over of UK citizens who generate their own and even supply back to the grid.

It expected that in the emerging generation of solar panels are going to be 150% better than the existing one ie going from 20% or so efficiency to over 50% or individuals producing way more than they need is going to be common place. " Come round my house and charge you car up".  Friends are free on I can sell you 10 kwh for a quid.  50kwh for a fiver which will take your EV 150 to 200 miles. 

I'd like to see some data to back this up.

I think there's a huge disconnect between the affluent middle-class who can uhm and ahh over which solar panel package they're going to install, and the majority of the population who don't have their savings measured in £10,000s.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/totalwealthingreatbritain/april2018tomarch2020

 

I can't help but notice the people who bang on about "social justice", "equity" and "diversity & inclusion", are very often the same people who want to force everyone in the country to align themselves with the luxury beliefs of those who have enough spare cash to virtue-signal about how environmentally-conscious they are.

 

 

58 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

Not really bizarre - just fact.  People will continue to run ICE vehicles (not just cars but LGVs and HGVs too.  It's a standard S-Curve response - initial slow take up of EVs that increases and then declines towards a flatline proportion, as those who want to have already done so.  As for the Petrol curve that hump approaching 2025 reflects those that want to keep running an ICE vehicle and will purchase just before the ban comes in.  It's actually totally logical.

Typical example - one of the vehicles I run was first registered in February 1995 (so 28 years old).  It's low mileage in great condition and still fun to drive.  I wouldn't have dreamt of getting rid of it six years ago and have no intention of doing so for many years...  Why on earth would I just because someone thinks it's a bit old and an EV might be cheaper to run - that's totally not the point!?

If you think of the situation now - how many Y-Reg vehicles do you see on the road?  Quite a lot in some areas as they are cheap and many are very much still serviceable.

And that's not forgetting those owning 'classics' or similar.

To me your response suggests you are quite out of touch with reality on certain things.

 

I had a look on the government website and as I suspected less than 15% of cars licenced for the road are over 20 years old.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/number-of-cars-in-the-uk-over-20-years-of-age

 

I rarely see a car that is Y reg or older round here, perhaps it is different in South Yorkshire.  As to keeping a Feb 1995 car, and I am presuming you are referring to your MX5 I could not wait to get rid of my as it was a joke as a sport car.  Mine was the 2 litre i with the very nice electric roof but God was it slow, as a sports car.  A tuned MX5 tried to over take me in one of my Skoda Octavia VRSs, he disappeared in the rear view mirror, an absolute joke , hairdresser's car.

 

Pure running costs are going to be key and as car (ICE) dealership, garages and petrol station go bust, as the percentage of EVs passes 50%, probably not in 2035 but I reckon before 2030, if not for cars owned and sat on a drive but miles driven on the road, last stat I saw EVs were being driven about a third more than ICE cars.

 

The newer EVs are becoming cheaper than ICE cars to buy, China showing the way, massively cheaper to run on the road and to service, most people economic will necessitate them moving to EVs.  Maybe EVs which do not even need a driving licence !    

 

The recent spurt of take of EV ownership in China, Europe and the US, given further massive drops in the price to buy one and it seem soon to charge one as well should just coax the person who just wants drive to work, shops etc, rather than enthusiast for classic who will want to run them. Miss my beautiful Jaguar S type but escalating road tax just kills these older cars with massive annual road tax bills.... 

 

     

Edited 24 April, 20233 yr by lol-lol

56 minutes ago, EnterName said:

I'd like to see some data to back this up.

I think there's a huge disconnect between the affluent middle-class who can uhm and ahh over which solar panel package they're going to install, and the majority of the population who don't have their savings measured in £10,000s.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/totalwealthingreatbritain/april2018tomarch2020

 

I can't help but notice the people who bang on about "social justice", "equity" and "diversity & inclusion", are very often the same people who want to force everyone in the country to align themselves with the luxury beliefs of those who have enough spare cash to virtue-signal about how environmentally-conscious they are.

 

I have a few solar panels but I do not think they are a worthwhile investment unless you are sure you, your family are going to be in a place for twenty years or more.  Nor do they look nice and if I went for them i am glad it would be on my roof away from the street so the front does not look like a greenhouse.  Here in worcester I think the main adoption of solar is on cheap properties rather than more expensive ones.  Doing cost analysis it looks to me that using battery storage is much more cost effective, especially since the Russia-Ukraine war and the massive jump in energy prices in the last year.  I think solar will come back in to electricity users options when the solar panels jump from 20% to 50% efficiency.  personally I would rather have a much smaller array that maybe tracks the sun rather than a static upon roof array but it is the battery storage that works out best for savings.  Downloading 0030 to 0430 hrs energy and using it during day, in combination with timed EV charging means most of the electricity I use is at the 7.5p per kwh Octopus GO tariff.   Were talking hundred of pounds spent on batteries not thousands on solar arrays.   

 

I am a big believer in coxing people's action as the UK government did with EV incentives, got me extra interested, I am angling for the UK government salary sacrifice scheme which hopefully will come massively down in cost soon to reflect the huge drop in prices of TESLAs and how that forces other EV manufacturers to follow suit.  These cars are becoming much cheaper as the Berlin Gigafactory ramps up.   

 

55 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

I had a look on the government website and as I suspected less than 15% of cars licenced for the road are over 20 years old.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/number-of-cars-in-the-uk-over-20-years-of-age

 

I rarely see a car that is Y reg or older round here, perhaps it is different in South Yorkshire.  As to keeping a Feb 1995 car, and I am presuming you are referring to your MX5 I could not wait to get rid of my as it was a joke as a sport car.  Mine was the 2 litre i with the very nice electric roof but God was it slow, as a sports car.  A tuned MX5 tried to over take me in one of my Skoda Octavia VRSs, he disappeared in the rear view mirror, an absolute joke , hairdresser's car.

 

Pure running costs are going to be key and as car (ICE) dealership, garages and petrol station go bust, as the percentage of EVs passes 50%, probably not in 2035 but I reckon before 2030, if not for cars owned and sat on a drive but miles driven on the road, last stat I saw EVs were being driven about a third more than ICE cars.

 

The newer EVs are becoming cheaper than ICE cars to buy, China showing the way, massively cheaper to run on the road and to service, most people economic will necessitate them moving to EVs.  Maybe EVs which do not even need a driving licence !    

 

The recent spurt of take of EV ownership in China, Europe and the US, given further massive drops in the price to buy one and it seem soon to charge one as well should just coax the person who just wants drive to work, shops etc, rather than enthusiast for classic who will want to run them. Miss my beautiful Jaguar S type but escalating road tax just kills these older cars with massive annual road tax bills.... 

 

     

 

That 15% will increase as people realise they wont be able to teplace thier ICE vehicle with another one.

 

As to the MX5 comments you clearly missed the raison d'etre as they were never meant to be fast.  But each to thier own so I'll ignore that bit 

 

Re EV costs...   Yes they will come down over time as we move from 'early adoption' to relatively common.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

I have a few solar panels but I do not think they are a worthwhile investment unless you are sure you, your family are going to be in a place for twenty years or more.  Nor do they look nice and if I went for them i am glad it would be on my roof away from the street so the front does not look like a greenhouse.  Here in worcester I think the main adoption of solar is on cheap properties rather than more expensive ones.  Doing cost analysis it looks to me that using battery storage is much more cost effective, especially since the Russia-Ukraine war and the massive jump in energy prices in the last year.  I think solar will come back in to electricity users options when the solar panels jump from 20% to 50% efficiency.  personally I would rather have a much smaller array that maybe tracks the sun rather than a static upon roof array but it is the battery storage that works out best for savings.  Downloading 0030 to 0430 hrs energy and using it during day, in combination with timed EV charging means most of the electricity I use is at the 7.5p per kwh Octopus GO tariff.   Were talking hundred of pounds spent on batteries not thousands on solar arrays.   

 

I am a big believer in coxing people's action as the UK government did with EV incentives, got me extra interested, I am angling for the UK government salary sacrifice scheme which hopefully will come massively down in cost soon to reflect the huge drop in prices of TESLAs and how that forces other EV manufacturers to follow suit.  These cars are becoming much cheaper as the Berlin Gigafactory ramps up.   

 

Can’t say I agree with you re. battery storage along with solar panels.

I have a small fixed array on a south facing roof, paid for themselves in under seven years.

Conversely, I have looked in to battery storage three times over the last five years. Each calculation comes back with an ROI in excess of 15 years at best, most realistically it’s nigh on 20 years; and yes, I have included overnight low rate charging. Best advice I’ve had is that a better would last about 12 years. Not investing in battery technology is a no brainer. All a bit frustrating ‘cos storing self generated electricity seems like a sensible thing to do. Hey ho!
Battery development might change that equation but only if the costs don’t escalate in the process.

 

Back to EVs, where will we get all the electricity from? (rhetorical question). Only a couple of months ago there was talk of rationing supply.

Rationing in England because the surplus electricity generated north of the border is not going onto the national grid or those that can generated are paid not too and customers with Smart meters get paid extra to use less electricity than they usually do while those with renewables all around them pay higher tariffs than those in areas with a threat of shortage.  All a con and a swindle really. 

10 hours ago, SteveTheElder said:

Can’t say I agree with you re. battery storage along with solar panels.

I have a small fixed array on a south facing roof, paid for themselves in under seven years.

Conversely, I have looked in to battery storage three times over the last five years. Each calculation comes back with an ROI in excess of 15 years at best, most realistically it’s nigh on 20 years; and yes, I have included overnight low rate charging. Best advice I’ve had is that a better would last about 12 years. Not investing in battery technology is a no brainer. All a bit frustrating ‘cos storing self generated electricity seems like a sensible thing to do. Hey ho!
Battery development might change that equation but only if the costs don’t escalate in the process.

 

Back to EVs, where will we get all the electricity from? (rhetorical question). Only a couple of months ago there was talk of rationing supply.

 

In the UK the problem seems to be a public lack of understanding of the base cost of the solar panels and then what is needed to supply the energy to the house or office needs.  Personally I am well impressed on how good the solar panels work in doing what they say and work well in conjunction with the solar input with the so called solar batteries and of course the ease to add to the power reserve.  I am buying batteries at around 50 pence per wh and with the downloading of electricity on my negligible tariff of 7.5 p per kwh, was paying 5p a kwh up to september 22, and generating about a one kwh per average day I reckon I am saving about whole two pound a day, even in winter as downloading is much more than panels to me so a few hundred pounds saved per year and batteries which cost less than £2k will pay for itself within 5 years.  Looking to acquire another solar generator, 3.6 kwh, 4 kw invertor but it is still £2800 so I will wait until Cyber Monday where it should be down to less than £2k.  We then need to think about plumbing in to the house mains rather than have my current device just sitting there powering the fridge freezers and other kitchen appliances. 

 

Must be plenty of electricity around at very cheap prices else Octopus would not be selling it at 5p, 7.5p or 12p per kwh on Octopus GO and if one goes for Octopus Agile then one can get even lower figures, even negative sometime so they will pay you to take the electricity.  Here was a nice occurrence a few days ago for Go users............... (below graph)     Price at MDNT - -1.1p per kWh and stay negative for an hour and a half, then goes positive to 2p per kWh and then negative again for half an hour, then positive for an hour and a half, 1.5p per kWh and then negative again. It stay cheaper than standard electricity until 1630 where it is the same as many people pay and the goes cheap again in late evening.

 

Electricity is nice and cheap and over plentiful, even you can grab it when it is cheap and Octopus and smart chargers can be programed to download lecky when it is priced below a cert level and when doing this straight in to an EV at 7,11 or more kW one is charging up the EV at miniscule costs.  Reckon I add 65 miles of range for just over a pound when plugged in so about 1.5 p per mile. 

England already has the largest wind farm in the world and with the farms on the Dogger banks this will be superseded again to a farm that will generate 3.6 kWh at peak ie about 7.5% of what is needed even at peak times....  Current proportions of wind as a percentage of total can be found here.

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/    Wind is often over a quarter of what we need but in the early morning can be the dominant source has can be sold at just a few pence per kwh.

  

    

Tuesday, 11 April 2023

Negative	Under 3p	Under 5p	Under 7p	Under 10p	Over 10p	Over 15p	Over 20p	Over 25p	Over 30p
5	3	2	0	0	1	7	18	7	5

Average price for day = 18.4p (Avg Peak = 32.0p, Avg Offpeak = 16.4p).

 

Time	Cost	Time	Cost	Time	Cost	Time	Cost	Time	Cost	Time	Cost	Time	Cost	Time	Cost
00:00	-1.1p	00:30	-4.4p	01:00	-5.7p	01:30	1.9p	02:00	1.1p	02:30	-3.8p	03:00	1.5p	03:30	-2.8p
04:00	4.4p	04:30	3.3p	05:00	18.0p	05:30	18.0p	06:00	20.9p	06:30	22.1p	07:00	23.2p	07:30	28.8p
08:00	21.2p	08:30	24.0p	09:00	21.9p	09:30	21.6p	10:00	20.4p	10:30	20.5p	11:00	19.8p	11:30	20.3p
12:00	20.5p	12:30	21.2p	13:00	21.6p	13:30	20.7p	14:00	20.0p	14:30	19.8p	15:00	16.8p	15:30	18.2p
16:00	25.1p	16:30	33.1p	17:00	33.5p	17:30	33.5p	18:00	33.5p	18:30	33.5p	19:00	28.2p	19:30	26.6p
20:00	26.7p	20:30	24.2p	21:00	27.6p	21:30	22.1p	22:00	27.4p	22:30	17.6p	23:00	23.4p	23:30	11.9p

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 25 April, 20233 yr by lol-lol

12 hours ago, lol-lol said:

I am a big believer in coxing people's action as the UK government did with EV incentives, got me extra interested, I am angling for the UK government salary sacrifice scheme which hopefully will come massively down in cost soon to reflect the huge drop in prices of TESLAs and how that forces other EV manufacturers to follow suit.  These cars are becoming much cheaper as the Berlin Gigafactory ramps up.   

(Bold emphasis in quote added by me.)

In that case, you'll love the UK government's behavioural science unit.

https://www.bi.team/

 

One man's "coaxing people's action" is another man's "propaganda".

It can be benign, or it can be very damaging. I don't much like behavioural science.

I'd rather the government was honest and straightforward, rather than sneaky and subversive.

Challenge I have is to add a battery to my solar panel array is an upgrade/replacement of the inverter. Can’t remember the technical details without digging through loads of emails. Puts the cost up significantly, which is the frustrating bit. Though I’m hoping that at some point it becomes viable.

 

I’m very impressed with the solar generation and have adapted our routine to maximise use of self generated power.