Weird issue with Gear Indicator and Cruise Control

[dantwah]

Having a weird issue with my Gear indicator (and with that - the cruise control):

• Barely recognizes the 5th gear (thinks its maybe 6 or not)
• For a while in 6th gear its going fine on cruise control, but then suddenly it simultaniously doesn't show which gear the car is in; as well as that the cruise control stops.

Gear 1 till 4 are no issue and working correctly. It's just 5th and 6th gear where this issue is. Went to a shop, they couldn't find any issues. Then went to a Skoda dealer, they changed some small plastic part (€1,30) near the gears, thought it might solve it - but didn't. They have now tested it again and can't find any issue with it - and have send it upwards to the headoffice of Skoda. 

 

• All sensors have been checked, and work correctly
• Some small part has been changed (plastic thing for in the gearbox) - but didn't solve it

Does anybody have an idea what it can be?

 

It's a 2010 Skoda Yeti, 1.2TSI - Manual (6 speed manual - no DSG)

 

[AGFalco]

Is the clutch beginning to slip?

 

 

Thanks. AG Falco

[dantwah]

Nope, clutch is all fine still :), and not slipping (not even the slightest). 

[AGFalco]

Changed any tyres recently?

 

Thanks. AG Falco

[dantwah]

Possibly. I bought it a few 1000km ago, and it might be new / different tyres - will that influence it? So I can't confirm with certainty if there are new tires on it. 

[AGFalco]

Are ALL your tyres the same size?

Are ALL your tyres the correct size?

 

Please check on the car. 🥺

 

Thanks. AG Falco

[J.R.]

The gear indicator works using a calculation from the engine rpm and I think the gearbox output shaft but might be the wheel sensors.

 

Clutch slip will screw it up as will a faulty clutch position sensor or riding the clutch which will give it double trouble!

 

 

Edited 23 May, 2023 by J.R.

[dantwah]

11 hours ago, AGFalco said:

Are ALL your tyres the same size?

Are ALL your tyres the correct size?

 

Please check on the car. 🥺

 

Thanks. AG Falco

Just checked, yes - all tires are the same size: 225/50 R17

From what I can see that is one of the 'original' tire sizes and would work. Now it doés say somewhere about an offset, so it might actually be something that I can look at. In the MFD settings I do have the option to 'adjust it' for winter tires for example. Would that be something to try? 
 

11 hours ago, J.R. said:

The gear indicator works using a calculation from the engine rpm and I think the gearbox output shaft but might be the wheel sensors.

 

Clutch slip will screw it up as will a faulty clutch position sensor or riding the clutch which will give it double trouble!

 

 

 

Alright,- I would expect (if it has to do with the clutch sensor), this would happen in áll gears. However it's only in 5th and 6th gear this behavior. So only there the display doesn't recognize the gear it's in anymore. The weel sensors might be a thing to look at! If the computer calculates it with that - it could be an interesting thing to check. 

'

 

 

I think btw, that the dropping of the cruise control is the 'secondary issue'; the main issue is that the computer/display doesn't recognize the gear (5th and 6th after a while - and at higher speeds mainly). In the 4th gear, it will keep on reading that and I can have it in cruise control for ages. A faulty clutch or brake sensor would also play a role in any gear I would say - and not only 5th & 6th. 

[dantwah]

Skoda Headquarters came back - they said it needs a specific software version / update. So will be going to the Skoda dealer tomorrow, let's see how that goes!

[137699]

Mine started doing this when the slave cylinder was failing as the clutch pedal wasn't returning to the correct position to trigger the display to update.

[J.R.]

Good point.

[dantwah]

Back from Skoda. The 'software update' didn't solve it. They start to get to the point where they also don't know anymore. It has been send back to the headquarters again, waiting for their reply.

They have two more ideas for the rest:

• Selector Fork 5th/6th gear
• Sensor of the Neutral position

For the sensor tho, it doesn't make to much sense as you would expect it to be for every gear then, and it's only on the 5th & 6th (where, on the 5th it's directly and the 6th it will work some time and then stop). My guess is moving towards the selector fork, as that piece seems to be connected. But we'll wait for the feedback of Skoda..

Still tho - the car drives perfectly fine, and its just the screen not showing the 5th / 6th gear after a while. No weird noises, difficulty with shifting, or whatever. So actually a selector fork álso doesn't make a lot of sense.. 

Edited 25 May, 2023 by dantwah

[J.R.]

Instead of saying "look we dont know what is causing this" they are grabbing at straws like the software update and inventing possibilities that if they had any logic or understanding of the vehicle would realise are simply stupid.

 

There is absolutely no connection between the 5th/6th gear selector fork and the calculation that the ECU makes to decide what gear the vehicle is in based on RPM and gearbox output/road speed.

 

Whatever you do please do not authorise them to remove and dismantle the gearbox, it will not resolve the problem and will likely leave you with many others as their competence appears to be limited to downloading unnecessary software updates.

 

They do however have an A+ in customer service Bravo Sugar.

[dantwah]

11 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Instead of saying "look we dont know what is causing this" they are grabbing at straws like the software update and inventing possibilities that if they had any logic or understanding of the vehicle would realise are simply stupid.

 

There is absolutely no connection between the 5th/6th gear selector fork and the calculation that the ECU makes to decide what gear the vehicle is in based on RPM and gearbox output/road speed.

 

Whatever you do please do not authorise them to remove and dismantle the gearbox, it will not resolve the problem and will likely leave you with many others as their competence appears to be limited to downloading unnecessary software updates.

 

They do however have an A+ in customer service Bravo Sugar.

😂 Okey yes that makes sense. I will not authorize that then,- as yes, that doesnt make that much sense. A new ECU would even make more sense. I've told them to calibrate it a few times already, but they say the computer doesn't say it needs it. It's for me looking like the computer can't calculate it and then just blanks out. It's weird that it does it for some time and then stops it in 6th gear; but 5th gear its just not able to do it in the first place (thinking it's 6th for a bit). I'm not able to do that myself as far as I know; so will have to wait for what they say.

 

If there is any other thing that you can think of - yes please . Still waiting for that miracle 'ah-ha' moment. Feels like it will be something super stupid and small.

Edited 25 May, 2023 by dantwah

[J.R.]

I think there is little to no possibility that the ECU is at fault, it cannot be recalibrated, I understand why you may have asked for that but there response just further illustrates their ignorance, you would get more sense out of a goldfish.

 

For me it would be the clutch sensor or the neatral sensor and/or the wiring to/from them.

 

Also the gearbox output speed sensor if there is one, I might have made that up but I recall disconnecting the wiring from it when removing the gearbox for a clutch & DMF change, its the sort of thing that may not have been correctly reconnected, the wiring strained if they forgot to disconnect it during a clutch change (has yours been done?) or exposure to the road dirt etc.

 

The magnet inside the clutch master cylinder which operates the external reed switch can get covered in an unidentifiable magnetic schmoo, it can only be revealed by cutting the cylinder apart.

 

Is your clutch pedal actuation perfect? No sticking in the down position? Does it return with the control loading spring assistance to the top position?

[J.R.]

One other question, does this problem occur after you have done a spirited change into 5th gear whilst pressing on?

 

By that I mean accelerating hard to high revs in 4th gear then a fast gearchange and onto full throttle in 5th gear like you might do when overtaking traffic.

 

Under those conditions the clutch peak torque limiter will cause momentary or longer clutch slip (a crazy system) one isnt normally looking at the speedo display but it will not show the selected gear until everything has stabilised.

[dantwah]

7 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I think there is little to no possibility that the ECU is at fault, it cannot be recalibrated, I understand why you may have asked for that but there response just further illustrates their ignorance, you would get more sense out of a goldfish.

 

For me it would be the clutch sensor or the neatral sensor and/or the wiring to/from them.

 

Also the gearbox output speed sensor if there is one, I might have made that up but I recall disconnecting the wiring from it when removing the gearbox for a clutch & DMF change, its the sort of thing that may not have been correctly reconnected, the wiring strained if they forgot to disconnect it during a clutch change (has yours been done?) or exposure to the road dirt etc.

 

The magnet inside the clutch master cylinder which operates the external reed switch can get covered in an unidentifiable magnetic schmoo, it can only be revealed by cutting the cylinder apart.

 

Is your clutch pedal actuation perfect? No sticking in the down position? Does it return with the control loading spring assistance to the top position?

Okey - clear with the ECU. Makes sense yes. 

 

The sensors where the first thing I thought of as well. It has been checked (by reading the computer), and they don't give any faults. And a weird thing for me is that it only happens in 5th & 6th. I would expect a failing sensor to do it in any gear - not only higher gears. 

 

My clutch has not been changed as far as I know. I'm a second owner so can't say with 100% certainty, but I think it's not been done. 

 

Cutting the master cylinder apart sounds pretty intense to do haha. Regarding the clutch pedal actuation - yes, thats perfect. No sticking down, returns completely by itself to the top position. There only is a little 'click' sound if I press the pedal all the way down, and release it. It sounds more like a little plastic part hitting somehwere. Regardless of pushing it deep or not, the gear indicator behaves the same. 

 

6 minutes ago, J.R. said:

One other question, does this problem occur after you have done a spirited change into 5th gear whilst pressing on?

 

By that I mean accelerating hard to high revs in 4th gear then a fast gearchange and onto full throttle in 5th gear like you might do when overtaking traffic.

 

Under those conditions the clutch peak torque limiter will cause momentary or longer clutch slip (a crazy system) one isnt normally looking at the speedo display but it will not show the selected gear until everything has stabilised.

 

No, also with calm driving. That sounds like a complicated system - but no it happens with it at any speed, with normal driving.

 

How I replicate the issue on my test-drives after the garage:

Test 1:

-> Drive 60km/h, constant - in 4th, then shift to 5th gear. 

Result:

-> Gear indicator (on the screen), flickers between 5th and 6th gear, not being sure which one it's in. And then stops indicating the gear. 

Test 2:

-> Go to the highway. Drive 120km/h, constant in 6th gear. 

-> Put it in cruise control

-> Screen will still show it's in 6th gear

-> After some time (changes on how long it takes, sometimes quick, sometimes it stays good for a minute or 2), the cruise control will drop & the screen stops indicating the gear. This happens at the same time.

 

The few things that make it a weird issue for me to really think towards sensors;

- 5th gear is regardless of speed where this happens. Also at 120km/h to 5th gear, it still flickers between 5th and 6th to then show nothing

- 6th gear works for a while, but then stops as well

- 1 till 4th gear are perfectly fine. 

[dantwah]

3 hours ago, 137699 said:

Mine started doing this when the slave cylinder was failing as the clutch pedal wasn't returning to the correct position to trigger the display to update.

 

Hmm interesting. Did it also do it like in 6th? As it is first recognizing it, it just stops after some time to recognize it. 

[dantwah]

A failing sensor still would make sense. Maybe the transmission speed sensor, or the neutral sensor. But it doesn't give any engine codes or faults to the ECU weirdly. 

[dantwah]

Newest update: Issue is still there. Headquarters advised to replace the Clutch sensor & the brake sensor. 

 

Another thought; would it make sense to reset the ECU? It seems like the ECU doesn't understand which gear it's in, so maybe a reset might help with that - relearning the new values? Will have to postpone the diagnosing and everything for about two weeks, lot's of traveling upcoming. So then I'll probably try to get the sensors replaced and reset the ECU. 

[J.R.]

There is no such thing as resetting the ECU.

 

You have recieved sensible advice finally regarding the clutch and brake sensors, disregard any Bravo Sugar that the dealer may have trotted out about resetting the ECU.

 

It has already allegedly had a "a specific software version / update" (which I don't believe for one second) but were that to be the case it would be the closest that you could get to a reset.

 

Losing the car for yet another day with all the inconvenience that it entails for a ficticious"specific software version / update" or "ECU reset"  is just part of the wearing you down process hoping that you will go away.

[dantwah]

Okey I'm back again!

I've gotten the sensors replaced (clutch & brake sensor). Sadly - that doesn't appear to be the solution. So back to the thinking board. 

 

The symptons:

- 6th gear, constant speed, after 1-2 minutes, the gear indicator stops 'working' (doesn't indicate a gear anymore)

- 5th gear, doesn't recognize it's in 5th gear properly, stops showing any indication of which gear it's in

- 4th gear, it works pretty long, but after some time, it sometimes drops the inidication as well. 

 

The moment the gear indicator drops, and I'm on cruise control, the cruise control stops working as well. I then also can't turn it on. 

 

There are no errors or codes in the logs. It's been thoroughly checked by Skoda and independent garages, as well as my self. The issues were before doing the following work on it, but after this, are still there.

Changed:
- Full timing chain kit (not linked to it, and the issues were before changing), waterpump, etc. 

- New Clutch and brake sensor

- New tires (old & new - no difference)

 

Any ideas? I'd love to get it working again. I think the dropping of the cruise control is more a result of the issue (the issue being not recognizing which gear it's in). 

[J.R.]

Another poster resolved the same problem, it was IIRC the clutch sensor but he was thrown off balance by having replaced the sensor and then the master cylinder to find that the sensor on the new cylinder was faulty & he had to refit either the original one or maybe the first replacement, I cant recall the details but he then got back the cruise control and gear indications, search the forum via Google for the details.

 

You should have the clutch switch actuation checked using VCDS, the brake one as well while you are at it.

 

Just because a sensor has been replaced does not mean that the new one will be working correctly as yours seemigly isn't, when I cut apart my original master cylinder the toroidal magnet was covered in an unidentifiable magnetic Schmoo from where I have no idea but it would have reduced the magnetic field seen by the hall sensor.

[dantwah]

Thanks J.R., I'll be going back with the garage with this info :). For reference I think this is the topic you were talking about: 

 

[dantwah]

Guess what, i'm still here!

 

Got the master and slave clutch cylinders and the sensors all replaced. Didn't solve it sadly. So still the same issue exist, and I have no clue how to go further with it now. My shop also has no clue, as there are no error codes or nothing in the logs indicating that anything is failing. 

 

Any suggestions on parts that I can change next to see if it works? Or how to problem solve it? 

Edited 1 August, 2023 by dantwah