Wheel alignment / worn control arms & bushes

[GabrielSyme]

Hi all,

 

I have a 2011 170 Combi 4x4, approaching 108 k miles.

 

I find I go through tires too quickly, as they tend to run on their inner shoulders. 

 

When I had my last alignment done, I was advised the control arms were showing signs of wear and obv the bushes were softening due to age.

 

Can anyone please advise me what parts should be replaced (front and rear) to allow a good alignment and help prevent this premature tire wear?

 

The mentioned control arms (there is upper and lower arms I believe).  Is it worthwhile looking at poly bushes?  Would appreciate a steer to any supplier / kits too.  

 

As a general question,  is it worth rotating the tires on a 4x4 model to prolong tire life?

 

Although she is getting on a bit, I am fond of the old bus and it does what my family needs - so im not in a rush to get rid.  It passed its MOT last month, with only advisories on tires.   Of the 108 k miles, about 96k are mine and I would like to burst the 100 k at least lol

 

Thanks a lot for any advice

Cheers

[WolfsburgEd]

Hi - are you still needing a response on this?

 

Although they call what you are wanting to change the 'lower' arms' there are no front upper ones. Rear has upper and lower arms.

 

From your description I would suggest you are referring to the front 'wishbone' as the control arm (interchangeable terms). This is all a slippery slope - you can either change what it necessary OR do a complete refresh.

 

From experience once you start replacing one worn part with a new fresh firmer item it shows up all the rest of the old failing bits and likely speed up the ware on those old bits.

 

I have recently done a full suspension overhaul on a 2010 Tiguan 4motion. Literally everything, all arms, anything rubber, springs, shocks, arb's, subframe collars, ... you are in for quite a lot of money but it will be really really good and you can get bits on from other VAG models too to improve things. Depends on what you want to achieve. I've gone for preventative maintenance along with making it less of a truck as we are keeping it at least another 5 years so will get the benfit from all the new goodies.

 

I decided to do it all together as once you get close to lowering the front subframe there are several parts you can change OR will have to drop the subframe again for in maybe 6-24 months again with the associated labour costs and (ideally) another set of new subframe bolts if you adhere to the VW 'use once' philosophy of their bolts.

 

Personally, I would get the alloy Passat wishbones and a Meyle HD rear console bush. The HD console bush doesnt have the large holes that rip - less ware and lasts longer. Alternatively there is, I believe the genuine S3 rear console bush which is also either solid or has less voids.

 

For the wishbones, as the alloy ones are essentially fine buying used, get a used pair off of ebay and just get the front small bush replaced. I have done this before by drilling out the old bush and inserting a poly item from Problem Solving Bushings. That bush will never need replacing again.

 

If you have an auto/dsg then the (UK) passenger side will be a problem and likely the subframe will need to be dropped a bit.

 

I found once you start on the front chassis parts, if you really look in to it, its a very slippery slope ... because if you are dropping the subframe do you then replace the front ARB rubbers (integral to the ARB unfortunately and requires subframe removal ...)

 

Also, ECS subframe collars will put your front subframe in correct alignment permanently, while your subframe is being lowered...

 

Happy to detail more in a more detailed response below if needed ...

[GabrielSyme]

On 15/02/2024 at 10:22, WolfsburgEd said:

Hi - are you still needing a response on this?

 

Although they call what you are wanting to change the 'lower' arms' there are no front upper ones. Rear has upper and lower arms.

 

From your description I would suggest you are referring to the front 'wishbone' as the control arm (interchangeable terms). This is all a slippery slope - you can either change what it necessary OR do a complete refresh.

 

From experience once you start replacing one worn part with a new fresh firmer item it shows up all the rest of the old failing bits and likely speed up the ware on those old bits.

 

I have recently done a full suspension overhaul on a 2010 Tiguan 4motion. Literally everything, all arms, anything rubber, springs, shocks, arb's, subframe collars, ... you are in for quite a lot of money but it will be really really good and you can get bits on from other VAG models too to improve things. Depends on what you want to achieve. I've gone for preventative maintenance along with making it less of a truck as we are keeping it at least another 5 years so will get the benfit from all the new goodies.

 

I decided to do it all together as once you get close to lowering the front subframe there are several parts you can change OR will have to drop the subframe again for in maybe 6-24 months again with the associated labour costs and (ideally) another set of new subframe bolts if you adhere to the VW 'use once' philosophy of their bolts.

 

Personally, I would get the alloy Passat wishbones and a Meyle HD rear console bush. The HD console bush doesnt have the large holes that rip - less ware and lasts longer. Alternatively there is, I believe the genuine S3 rear console bush which is also either solid or has less voids.

 

For the wishbones, as the alloy ones are essentially fine buying used, get a used pair off of ebay and just get the front small bush replaced. I have done this before by drilling out the old bush and inserting a poly item from Problem Solving Bushings. That bush will never need replacing again.

 

If you have an auto/dsg then the (UK) passenger side will be a problem and likely the subframe will need to be dropped a bit.

 

I found once you start on the front chassis parts, if you really look in to it, its a very slippery slope ... because if you are dropping the subframe do you then replace the front ARB rubbers (integral to the ARB unfortunately and requires subframe removal ...)

 

Also, ECS subframe collars will put your front subframe in correct alignment permanently, while your subframe is being lowered...

 

Happy to detail more in a more detailed response below if needed ...

 

Hi there,

 

Thanks very much for such a detailed reply, sorry it took me a couple of weeks to acknowledge.

 

Before seeing your reply, I spoke to some mechanics who were advising that this is the reality of owning an older 4x4 model - that things start to sag and they eat tires.  

 

Like you, they advised its a topic which could grow arms and legs and be very costly.  It was clear that - without some specific scope or instruction from me - they were not keen to get tangled up in this, which I can appreciate (busy). I had hoped they might be able to assess the condition and advise what replacement parts might improve the situation, if not make it perfect.

 

So I am not really sure what to do now - I went for cheaper tires last time as I was aware of this problem and they have only lasted just over a year and about 8,000 miles which is rubbish.

 

All the wear is on the inside edges, is this inevitable with these models or would something like new ball joints aleviate it?

 

I don't have the experience / know how to do any work myself unfortunately, so if its not the kind of task a garage would relish, do I just need to suck it up and replace the tires annually?

 

Thanks for any advice

Cheers

 

Edit - another issue I noticed a few times (not common, very intermittent) is an occasional clunking noise when accelerating at low speed 10-20 mpg,  I suspected that was connected to a failing ball joint or saggy suspension too.

Edited 4 March by GabrielSyme

[WolfsburgEd]

I guess you need to assess how long you want to keep the car, of if having invested in a refresh you may be likely to accept keeping it a bit longer to get the benefit out of it.

 

I can say that doing all the stuff to our Tiguan it really feels new again. I really would encourage you to not just keep slapping cheap tyres on just to cover up the problem - the car will feel SO much better when it sorted and on some half decent rubber.

 

Your main cost with all of this is going to be labour - I did all the front end with my brother helping me so but still looked to minimise the number of times we pulled parts apart due to VW's stupid 'use once' bolt policy.

 

Getting the wishbones changed shouldn't be a hugely expensive cost - you can buy complete units all built up with ball joint and rear console bush for not a lot really. The new wishbone will also have a fresh front bush in it but this one isn't renound for waring. Personally though I really would look to get the S3 or Meyle HD rear console bush as something a little more durable.

 

This is a standard console bush - see all the holes which while reducing noise/vibration they rip really easily across these holes as so much more movement is allowed:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/AkNErK5m.jpg[/img]

 

This is a Meyle HD bush, similar to an S3 I believe:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/G7rLQLkm.jpg[/img]

 

 

The clunking noise I would take a guess at being the lower engine mount that's pushed into the subframe - these ware and allow fore-aft travel of the engine around the lover engine mount / dog-bone bar that bolts back to the chassis. Its the round rubber 2-part bush that has a white nylon outer ring. In itself its not desperately expensive but as above its the labour. This usually means subframe off, however there is a tool by Laser that allows the job to be done in situ. I got the tool (several hundred as I had at least 2 cars to do immediately) and still did the job with the subframe off the car.

 

This is the lower engine mount bush:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/AkNErK5m.jpg[/img]

 

This is the whole subframe built up with alloy wishbones ready to jack back up into place:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/lARb9Iel.jpg[/img]

 

IF I was going to do this all again I would look to get a set of used aluminium Passat wishbones off ebay, clean them up, pop out the front little bushes drilling the rubber out and replace with a PSB poly bush and then get the Meyle HD rear console bush and a generic balljoint. NB - the Passat and S3 balljoint isnt right for the cast hub that is standard on the Superb so don't be tempted to use the one that comes with it. They aren't big money, get a fresh one. Then get your favourit local garage to put it all on for you, get it tracked and see how you go.

 

As said, that clonking may not be too cheap to get sorted yourself and will likely be a subframe off job. Maybe try to hunt around for an independent VAG specialist, they may be more used to doing some of these jobs and be quicker and have better advisory capabilities. I know of a good one in the Gloucester area and one in the Warwick area, they are about ...

 

Happy to keep discsussing this here OR PM me to discuss offline.

[WolfsburgEd]

Sorry - didn't get image linking working on the last post:

 

This is a standard console bush - see all the holes which while reducing noise/vibration they rip really easily across these holes as so much more movement is allowed:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/AkNErK5m.jpg[/img]

 

This is a Meyle HD bush, similar to an S3 I believe:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/G7rLQLkl.jpg[/img]

 

This is the old lower engine mount bush:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/lL2J3H9l.jpg[/img]

(note that there are two different styles of the bush, you will want to make sure that you get the TDi version as its stiffer than the petrol version, I think this was the one off my Golf GTi)

 

This is the whole subframe built up with alloy wishbones ready to jack back up into place:

http://[img]https://i.imgur.com/lARb9Iel.jpg[/img]