The PM

There are people like that I agree, but there are in every country, the trouble is that the system in the UK allows them to do that (or at least it did, it's getting stricter), hopefully they will change it! As i have said in the past I will agree to differ with you and do feel that you have not seen in Scotland first hand the issues of mass migration we have in certain parts of England. https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefingPaper/document/235 With regards to the way people voted, in particular the young, as I said in certain areas, the young did vote leave, us oldies could not have produced 65/70% votes leave on our own, granted over the whole country most young people voted remain, but I was talking specific areas, not as a whole...

Did you actually read my post or not, Offski? If you had you'd have realised that I am not criticising immigration, just how it is controlled. I am saying (and it's something you continue to ignore) that immigration from the old Central and Eastern Europe at the level seen in many parts of England is something that Scotland just hasn't seen, yes there are people in Scotland but not at the levels seen in England. There have been recent reports that have shown that when a large number of immigrants from a country with a lower standard of living (usually young adults, not families) congregate in one place it lowers the average wage and causes major problems for those existing residents who are low wage earners with families who still have to provide for their families but find their income reduced and their jobs in jeopardy. If you can't grasp that then I'd suggest that you go and visit the many parts of England that voted leave by large margins and see what it's like in practice and talk to those affected directly as i honestly think you have absolutely no real grasp of the issue.

I see Project Fear is alive and well! Depends in what part of the country you live... Round here the young voters were also voting leave... It goes back to the discussion I had earlier with Offski and lol about the effects uncontrolled immigration has had and the reason Scotland and NI voted the way they did. Yes they have both had immigration but not on the level parts of England and Wales have had, I couldn't get this point across to them earlier and had to give up trying but this is the key to why England and Wales voted leave. Some of my friends in Scotland have lived in such areas of England and understood the issue but unless you have seen your jobs disappearing and wages going down you just wouldn't understand and I think it is that ignorance of the issue in Scotland that has resulted in the divide between Scots and English voters. There is nothing wrong with immigration, even uncontrolled immigration, as long as the countries involved are all EQUAL. Currency, wages, goods, property and such things as welfare benefits, ie standard of living. In the old EEC that was the case in the main. The problems started when countries which have a much lower standard of living and fewer or less generous benefits joined and the peoples of those countries saw a chance to move out in large numbers to the countries with streets paved with gold (or so they thought) which has lead to what we have now... There's nothing wrong with immigration, on the whole it's a good thing, but you must have some form of control over it or it can have serious issues which can be seen in parts of England and Wales. I don't think it's anything special about what the SNP has done, their aim is clear, to keep Scotland in the EU so they have nothing to lose by putting their views forward. The UK Government, however, does, and also has to think carefully about what it does so I wouldn't expect them to start publishing what they are going to do, in this situation I certainly wouldn't! As for jumped up little ex footballers, who cares what he says, his views are worth no more than ours unless he's suddenly got some sort of qualification in economics!

Depends on who I am with at the time...

A different one to me, I'm afraid... You seem to think that everyone thinks the same way and wants the same thing... I can never see the World working like that... Human Nature: "I reckon all of us on here have different thoughts about what we think is the "best" Society for us all to live in and we'd find that if we compared notes they'd all be different..." Whilst we are all humans, human nature makes us all different in what we want out of life, the reason those ideas you post about will never work... Whilst them may suit some there's millions of others they won't suit... Hence my comments about different planets 'cause if you actually believe that you can get one system that suits us all you must be somewhere else! There is no promised land, simply because no-one can actually agree one what one should be! Perhaps best to go back to Brexit where, for once, the People actually rejected the status quo...

I don't see any sign of that... If he does the replacement will be someone even further left looking at the way the Labour Party is heading at the moment..

When you've come back from the planet you are currently on and returned to Planet Earth please read my comment "it doesn't take into account human nature" again and think carefully about it... I reckon all of us on here have different thoughts about what we think is the "best" Society for us all to live in and we'd find that if we compared notes they'd all be different... And of course there is the "ruling elite" and the other people who want to jump into that role should the current lot disappear who have their own agenda... When you've found a way for us all to want the same things and be satisfied with our lot come back and tell us...

The problem, though, is that when "the people" finally get fed up of the "ruling elite" and throw them out they then just get a new "ruling elite" who in many (most?) cases prove far worse than the previous lot... Show me one revolution that has not ended up that way... "Socialism" as a concept is wonderful, trouble is that is doesn't take into account human nature and so has never worked in practice... It's easy to say what we all should do, trouble is it never pans out that way... So many people just look at History and decide that the status quo is perhaps the lesser of two evils...

Ooo! "Commercial" Traveller if you please, he retired in '75 after 50 years so was old school I suppose! How the meaning of words change over time, eh! As said it's surprising how memory plays tricks... Maybe no 3 days weeks and fuel shortages but it was chaotic... I remember getting my letter saying I was starting on £800pa (mid 70s) and then getting another letter, before i had started work, telling me it was now £1200pa! For another view of the late 70s and the winter of discontent '78/9 version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent http://www.ipa.org.au/publications/2185/when-everything-was-going-wrong-britain-in-the-seventies

Yes I can, lol-lol, we then followed that with 5 years of chaos under Labour... I remember talking to our union rep in the late 70s saying how I supported Sunny Jim's attempt to control wages and inflation and him laughing at me and saying what they would do... No wonder there was change of Gov in '79, by then most people had had enough. '73 and '74 wasn't fuel rationing as such, it was shortage of fuel due to the Sheikhs playing silly beggars, petrol station just ran out and sometimes restricted what you could put in... I remember Dad had problems as he was a Commercial Traveller (as Reps were known in those days!) during that time...

Hopefully never, I wouldn't want to go through those times again, though there were good times as well, I was a teenager of the 70s, 13 in '70, my decade I suppose! Fuel Rationing? That was the 40s and 50s, it never got that bad in the 70s, there was one occasion when it could have happened in '73 but it didn't. I can remember some garages shutting due to lack of fuel, but never rationing.

What we have now is nothing compared with the 70s... Not even close...

Not to mention Disabled People not being able to get on the train because there's no station staff as well as guards (already a reality in some parts of the country)... What happens if someone falls ill like they did on my train recently? I got a paramedic to them within 5 minutes by stopping the train at a station we weren't booked to stop at and sorting out medical care whilst we were on the move and using my route knowledge to get the paramedic to the best station, something the driver can't do... DOO? A passenger would have pulled the pass-com, the train would have stopped in the middle of nowhere, the driver would have had to come back to check what the issue is, then start the train and move on... Good 25 minutes all that... Rowdy Football Fans causing havoc? Train crash and driver killed or incapacitated (Greyrigg a couple of years ago!)... Who did the emergency call? The GUARD did. Be careful what you wish for folks... It's a cost cutting exercise, nothing else and even the RSSB (railway safety board) have admitted privately that DOO trains are not safe.

But that's all the Remainers do, Moley, look at this thread for the evidence.

Brexit doesn't mean anything at the moment because we haven't started discussing it, until we do it's all pure guesswork... We have trade with countries outside the EU so the ICT hardware is already in place, it will need to be adjusted to suit whatever sort of deal we get but it's already there. It's true that we will have to meet the EU safety (and other) rules if we continue to trade with the EU but that is no different to now and applies to all countries outside the EU we trade with each of whom have their own rules and guidelines. Any Exporter worth their salt will already know what those rules are and will make their goods suitable to be sold in that country whether it's an EU one or outside the EU. Again it's nothing new, it's what British Exporters do already whether exporting to the EU or any other country.

Pure Guesswork.

They don't, though they are Schengen members, was over in Germany last year but one and visited there and Austria. As you say a visa is not an issue even if we had to have one, it's just yet another thing that has been blown out of all proportion by people who want to remain in the EU...

No doubt an agreement between Japan and the UK would be a lot easier to reach than one involving 27 countries where one part of one country can put the kibosh on the whole deal though... I wish we had one with Japan, I buy a fair bit from them direct and getting rid of the Post Office's money grabbing antics when dealing with imported goods would suit me fine... Sorry, I should just have highlighted the visa bit, I was aware of the duel nationality "panic", though I think it's a waste of people's time to do that. The Telegraph link, is, as usual with anything to do with Brexit (from both sides!) pure guesswork at this stage. I can remember travelling in Western Europe in the 60s, 70s and 80s without visas, just a passport, and seriously doubt that the EU would be stupid enough to insist on them from UK visitors... Though that link would indicate that visas would also apply to other non-EU European Countries outside the Schengan Zone (such as Eire!) as well as the UK so not directly related to Brexit but to do with terrorism... "as part of a broader response to calls for greater security across the continent following recent terror attacks in France and Belgium." To do what they want to do border controls would do the job better than a visa, it's the "open" nature of the Zone which allows the free movement of the terrorists which is what they are trying to tackle...

No it isn't... The more it goes on the more convinced I am that i was right to vote out... Guessing again Gadgetman... Never really noticed but as most consumer goods come from China and Japan and I am sure they will be more than happy to have a trade deal in place ASAP, maybe even better than the one we have to abide by now, especially as both countries invest in the UK... We never had to have visas when travelling in Europe before, why would we in the future? Your source? Scaremongering as usual...

Certainly some elements of the Remain camp are trying to make it into that, but even the person bringing it has said that it's basically about procedure rather than anything else.She has said that Brexit must take place, the only doubt is how it should be done which is what this hearing is about. I suspect May has deliberately held off on article 50 simply to give the Country more time to get things organised, if Cameron had been on the ball before the Referendum they'd have insisted on contingency plans being drawn up (and Corbyn should have asked the question too) but they thought it was a foregone conclusion that we would vote to stay and did not even bother with the alternative. Ever heard of "stalling tactics" to give yourself more time? They hadn't any choice in this case.

https://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/britains-unwritten-constitution Ours isn't a constitution, i.e. it's not written and changes all the time. To compare what we do with what the USA have is like comparing chalk and cheese. What is being debated at the Supreme Court is not about a "constitution" which would infer that there is something concrete which can be referred to but the interpretation of the various Acts, Court Judgements and Conventions which cover the EU and how it was introduced into the UK. If we actually had a Constitution things would be a lot more black and white!

"Figures and statistics as usual tell one story, the truth is often not in the statistics or the money markets." The issue is that the same statistics and "truths" (whatever they are!) can be made by individuals to mean whatever suits them so the same statistic and "truth" can mean totally opposite things to different people... This thread is a prime example of that as each side gets ever more desperate to prove that the other side is wrong instead of pulling together and accepting the decision made by the majority who voted (another bit of twisting there!)... I can see many more days months and years worth of the same coming soon on this thread!!

I am sick of seeing these constant references to a "Constitution"! We don't have one!! Our method is based on Acts of Parliament, Court Judgements and Conventions... Unlike the US one it is not written in stone and can be changed by new Acts, Court Judgements and Conventions... It develops and changes over time... All in all a better way of doing things in my view...

Nice to see you being able to justify the fall in value there, lol-lol, exactly the same argument that the British used when the £ went down! (BTW the £ went down to a level it was a few years ago, though as the Germans say about the Euro, "It was overvalued for some time"!!)

That's been on the cards for ages, again it's nothing new... But until we start negotiations then we won't know what is possible. It's irrelevant what is said at the moment. He was never a true "out" person, he was just doing it to further his career.