wyx087

Well, here's you moving the goal post in action: 1. mention BEV battery is equivalent to fossil fuel tank. 2. disregard valuable other uses of the battery 3. despite repeatedly explain how the liquid fuel is completely useless without engine. 4. double down on your view that out of fuel event is very important, moving your goal post closer to a rare event that disadvantage EV's, fit your narrative. 5. again, disregard other advantage and uses of BEV 6. accuse me finding "something to make EV/me look batter". Despite all I've done is follow up earlier claims pointed out in 3 with real life example. 7. post further accusation that goal post has been moved or haven't stayed within context. All while ignoring the facts that doesn't fit your view/narrative: 1. running out of fuel is a very rare event. 1% of AA call out. 2. BEV battery are assets for more things than just moving the car. I'm just spotting flaws in the stuff you say. 1. charge point installer wouldn't install charge points if charging it require crossing public path 2. ownership of short range EV is unsuitable if one cannot charge at home. 3. neighbour owns short range EV, parks cross front of your property....... but reads like only apologies now as though it rarely happens before. So how/where have they been charging previously? 4. EV range does not mean it needs recharging overnight to get beyond its range. 5. you seem unaware EV's can rapid charge, Leaf certainly can. 6. you really like name calling, I feel the Lee's pub analogy fits you well. (I'm on fire with numbered lists this morning)

How often do you run out of fuel/charge in cars? vs How often can a given person with driveway utilise V2H? I ignored the that part because it's complete fabrication. But here are the facts, how often people actually needed assistance with vehicles out of fuel/charge: https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2023/06/07/aa-reports-huge-decline-in-electric-vehicles-running-out-of-charge Highlighting benefit of EV is "find something to make me/EV look better"..... Hum.... if that is the case, you are doing very well in the opposite direction.

No moving the car is not whole point of having a car when the battery can do so much more. The battery in EV is likely to be the biggest battery any individual would ever own. Given the possibility, wouldn't you want to go from paying 14.67p/kWh on average: To paying 8p/kWh on average? (before VAT)

I thought you had me on ignore, preferring to live in ignorance? If you neighbour had to park across other people's property to charge, your neighbour shouldn't have been able to get charge point installed and best not to own an EV in the first place.

Mobile phone batteries are usually cycled 100% every day reaching extreme SoC, and has zero thermal management. Up until recently it would sit at 100% for many hours while people sleep. Same for laptop batteries. Take some care of the battery, use it in same way as EV battery will go a long way. For example, I limit my macbook air to 80% and it's now over 10 years old, still retains 83% capacity. Similarly, my iphone 12 mini is over 3 years old, bought on release, health is reported to be 86% at over 1500 cycles 'cos I use 120-200% of its battery every day. I don't deep cycle it, I keep it between 40-80% most of the time. The discrepancy comes from how it's used. Look after it and they last much longer than claimed. I don't think anyone expects lab test result of EV claimed range to be more accurate than ICE MPG figures. Well, for some who lack of common sense, expect lab test results do make good tabloid/youtube stories for selling clicks. I think we are discussing different things, degradation vs failure. EV/phone/laptop battery degrades, no doubt about it. They will continue to use be able to store energy many years down the line, outlast the car. But the fact of the matter is unless the EV you buy JUST ABOUT covers your needs, like my Nissan Leaf for 60 miles my commute, 20% or more degradation doesn't really matter. It can still take you to your destination. If my 300 miles EV become 200 miles in 15 years, why does it matter? Feels like splitting hair due to fear of unknown. Imagine instead of need to find a petrol station every 400 miles, you wake up every day to more range than you need, the degradation doesn't impact you, so why does it bother you?

Also got to remember buying EV itself does not solve climate change, so talking about it is neither here or there. There's embedded carbon emission in the production of EV's. Only when lifecycle of the product is considered EV produces vastly less emission than ICE regardless of former's grid mix. Private transport itself is also very selfish and continued usage would never make enough progress towards really solving climate change. But that idea is probably a step too far, is both unpopular and off topic in a car forum.

Well said. There's absolutely nothing forcing people one way or another for next 10 years here in UK. There's a few climate change deniers here in this thread...... There's nothing wrong with that, it's your opinion whether you want to believe the scientific consensus or not. But just like activist/passivists talk, labelling self as being forced to do something, shoving your opinion down people's throat based on a mandate that might happen 10 years down the line, whilst based on today's infrastructure, is rather ionic.

That's if you completely ignore other uses of the battery: V2H, V2L and powering AC without poisoning surrounding, etc. Moving the car is a very boring feature of EV. People ask about my EV's and I like talking about the Nissan Leaf way more due to its V2H capabilities. What makes you say that? I would go as far as say it is widely accepted that EV batteries will out last the car and have second life as stationary battery. My sources: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/charging/how-long-do-electric-car-batteries-last/ https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/advice-electric-cars/how-long-do-batteries-last-electric-cars https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/what-happens-old-electric-car-batteries

So EV's are about twice more expensive compared to similar power ICE (ID3/Knoa 200 to Superb 150?), probably important to note it's for your quoted situation only, it might be 4x more expensive for others for all we know! It's a rather forced unfavourable comparison based solely on perceived function, not on actual function. The stuff out of fuel tank cannot be directly used without another critical part of the car. The potential difference out of battery can be directly used by many parts of the car. Eg. You can't connect your in-car radiator to it, whereas you can connect PTC heaters to the HV battery. I'd say EV battery + motor is comparable to fuel tank + ICE. Of course, arguing about replacement cost on something that is designed to last for lifetime of vehicle is all academic.

In what aspect it isn't "green"? Not the colour obviously. But good percentage of grid is renewable and it's improving by the day. EV have zero tailpipe emissions and very high efficiency compared to ICE. Of course no one is going to go pedal-to-the-metal everywhere all the time, so that burst of power will not affect greatly overall economy. You can buy Model 3 for under £15k these days!? Where? Out of interest, what insurance price do you get with this ID3 for £14.5k? https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310042665642 Or one of these Hyundai Kona? https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Electric&make=Hyundai&model=KONA&sort=price-asc Expensive insurance might be a Tesla thing.

Kilowatt-hour (kWh) for battery capacity. kilowatt (kW) for motor power or charging speed. Any press that talks/writes kilowatt (without hour) for battery not worth watching/reading. Also a good way to avoid dealers who are not familiar with EV's.

Just like China, without worrying about loosing votes to loud minority, Ethiopia are able to effectively put in forward looking policies. I can't see why you'd doubt the validity of multiple sources. You've done good research but none have disproven that they are continuing to import non-EV's. It looks like it's more about the country wanting to get out of that trap and stop importing expensive geopolitically dependent fuel. They are doing it the hard way, banning first, infrastructure after. From Graham's research, looks like it wouldn't be a problem for most people. You'd be happy to learn good EV's with high mileage have very low degradation. (French article in OP though) https://www.speakev.com/threads/real-life-use-of-ev-400k-km-tesla-m3-taxi.183374/ "taxi Mercedes EQC in Norway. After 240 000 km (150 000 miles) the degradation is only 8%" After 9+ years, notoriously bad degrading battery in Nissan Leaf have 80% health. Modern EV's with thermal management degrade far less.

The bottom article does indeed not say non-EV are being banned. However, the CleanTechnia article does have this quote: "“A decision has been made that automobiles cannot enter Ethiopia unless they are electric ones,” stated Sime." The below 2 article confirms that no more import license are granted for non-EV from Feb 2024 onwards: https://research.hktdc.com/en/article/MTYxNzc4NzU5NQ https://techpoint.africa/2024/02/08/ethiopia-ban-importation-fuel-powered-cars/ Expensive importing fossil fuel is certainly a good enough reason to go full EV. Renewable electricity removes all geo-political problems associated with constantly needing to import fossil fuel. Look, I'm not going to get into completely pointless "my event is bigger than yours". But I did take a trip down memory lane, I visited in Aug 2013: I use my iPhone 12 mini in the same way as my EV's. I have wireless charger around the house and at office. I see it dip below 50% I pop onto wireless charger for a bit. I try to stay out of 100% area and always above 20%. It's been over 3 years since I got it, 120%-200% daily battery usage, so must be over 1500 cycles by now. Still 86% health and battery lasts more than long enough for me between times away from charger. If I'm heading out for whole day, I'll just bring a small power bank. EV is the same, little and often. Get into habit of plug it in. It's super easy, barely an inconvenience.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/07/ethiopia-banning-non-electric-car-imports/ https://www.arenaev.com/ethiopia_is_ready_to_ban_ice_vehicles_immediately-news-3101.php Ethiopia has completely banned import of all ICE vehicles last month. Simple, straight to the point.

What a strange and contradicting advice. "The general rule of thumb is to plug in and charge whenever you can, but not every time you drive. " My guess is someone who don't understand battery degradation trying to say don't keep doing small cycles at extreme SoC. Don't charge to 100% and drive 10 miles for the day and charge up again, effectively keeping it at extreme SoC. But tests have shown small charge cycles near middle of the voltage range does not accelerate degradation, it is actually preferred charge practice. (source: https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries) I generally use 65-40% for my 60 miles commute and I do plug it in daily without thinking, just rely on in-car charge limiter and timer to keep it at 65% for my next commute. Bump it up for weekends if needed. It doesn't need overthinking, just make it a habit of plugging in.

The market cooling is due to over supply of first group of longer range EV's as they come to end of lease, at the same time early adopters who really want EV's already got one by now. As you said. The general change of tide is still there, but the timeline may be no longer clear due to poor investment in charging infrastructure. As seen in last few posts, people are hesitant to jump in without having the assurance that it will all work just the way they are used to. Then there's unhelpful FUD going around, such as batteries only last 10 years or Toyota's "self charging" marketing and the delay tactic that consumers should wait for next best thing. Combined all will continue to prolong the adoption curve. Rapid charging for good EV's would certainly be shorter than nip to the loo for people from Norwich and Manchester. Because they only need a very small top up. Remember, plug in and go to the loo, unlike petrol station, don't need to hold the plug for it to charge.

From Manchester, I'd charge around half way on return. if not Birmingham, it'd be https://electroverse.octopus.energy/map/location/1059727. Would be good to stretch legs halfway during a 3 hour drive. For Newcastle, I'd charge up somewhere around Birmingham on the way, then again on the way back. Or stay the night near Gloucester/Swindon. It's a 5 hour drive non-stop! For Norwich, charging is plentiful near Oxford and Milton Keynes. I don't expect anyone to do the 4 hours drive without at least stopping once. With any EV that can do 200+ miles, finding charge point really is no problem. This is speaking from experience, unlike 60 miles range Leaf, today's longer range EV's massively expands charging options. With everyone going different directions and have different destinations, there wouldn't be massive queues because just like fossil fuel, you don't top up next to a busy event. This is just common sense. But problem is, when people don't want to change, they don't seek out options and present something that they only do once a year as a barrier. Not having driveway charging is a very real barrier though, makes day-to-day usage difficult.

What is it we are arguing? Why would I deny stuff I've posted? But I do apologies I don't know what is RIAT's official site and what isn't, I've never been to RIAT airshow. From initial quick search the BAE systems webpage looked official. It would be good to get an idea whether that quoted 200,000 number is across 3 days or all in 1 day. It makes a huge difference to the scale. I get the feeling FCL numbers are across all the days. The biggest gathering I've been is about 10 years ago at Bristol balloon festival, the final night had 250,000 people attending according to the loud speaker person. I don't remember any problem getting back to where I was staying afterwards. I can't foresee any problem driving 130 miles from Bristol back to London in today's EV. Just top up somewhere along M4, there's many charging sites nowadays. People's situation will all be different, it wouldn't be hundreds of cars from an event all wanting to charge at same location.

The Eastbourne beach airshow I went to last year says 99% of emissions came from people travelling to/from airshows. Given a large enough audience, the actual show emission will be insignificant. However, as they say, every little helps. RIAT official website talked about 2023, click into the link. Although I didn't quote any numbers, only the wording from official website. I could keep arguing with my own numbers and say it's entirely a non-issue because reasons. But I won't because I don't have first hand experience with that particular airshow. I would hope the same could be applied to EV ownership experience in this thread and people would stop with "I'd only get EV if it has a billion miles range" or "there's no where to charge".

May be a Q4 etron? https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401175642280?sort=price-asc&twcs=true&advertising-location=at_cars&make=Audi&model=Q4 e-tron&postcode=al2 1bx&fromsra Similarity is uncanny!

Personally, I only class vehicles EV if they are solely driven by electric motors. So ICE REx, hydrogen fuel cell and of course battery. I think parallel EV are worst of both worlds. It's bad as EV due to poor range, it's bad as ICE due to added weight. Might as well go for 1999 Prius level hybrid so at least there's no pretending.

I've no idea about FCL numbers. I agree it wouldn't be as much as airshow. Although the RIAT official website says the numbers are across 3 days: https://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/event/royal-international-air-tattoo But got to remember are all 200,000 people travelling at the same time to/from same area? Are all 200,000 people your neighbours? If half drives north and half drives south, that's half the amount of vehicle needs charging. Then there will be further diversification in recharging needs because people's journey distance would be different and people's cars will be different. All this can't-do attitude and unreasonable requirements sounds exactly like someone without any real world experience and don't want to change.

Does this read like dismissing potential EV ownership? Or dismissing re-post of social media guff? There wasn't any problem back in 2019 with Fully Charged Live, where many attendees drove early shorter range EV's. It isn't going to be any problem now with more rapid charging hubs everywhere and more LR EV's. Tell me are those hundreds of cars all driving to/from exact same destination? Fear of unknown generates unrealistic requirements.

There are more and more rapid charging hubs every day, if you can't charge at destination. But I'm now also puzzled as to why would you direct that question to me?

Quick google says 350 miles. Considering towing usually use double rated consumption, you'll want a 700+ miles brick-like EV to satisfy your requirement. I can't see that happen anytime soon, unfortunately. All recent improvements to range are on aerodynamics (eg. M3 LR '24 have same powertrain as previous M3 LR), which will see bigger disparity between towing or not towing.