WestWalesAndy

The findings of the elusive Jones Day report may finally be made public. Germany's top federal constitutional court rules investigators can look at whatever was found in a raid on Jones Day's German office. US law firm Jones Day conducted 700 interviews since the outbreak of the diesel crisis. They ensured 9200 volumes with more than 550 terabytes. 500 lawyers, technicians and other specialists were involved in the investigation (Handelsblatt). https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions/volkswagen-loses-bid-to-block-investigators-examining-legal-files-idUSKBN1JW0X8

Have you still got your copy of the letter about the refund for the EGR? There is a big query about what KBA actually tested. VW, or here Skoda, have implied that KBA tested for durability of the fix. Your letter virtually states this, but there is no evidence that KBA ever did and the press officer has virtually said they did not. I think this needs to be raised with the Transport Select Committee who may be able to query DfT about this. Customers are being misled if VW have lied about this.

This article is apparently based on what VW has said about what the software update actually does (Google translate helps): https://www.motor-talk.de/news/so-funktioniert-das-diesel-update-t6219349.html

VCA and DfT statements about the fix have been ambiguous. Re the fix, they consistently use the phrase "approved them on condition that CO2 emissions... were within tolerance...". A couple of days ago a VW owner received a letter from VW customer relations manager which included the sentence " The implementation of the technical measures for Volkswagen, Audi, SEAT and some SKODA vehicles were tested and approved by the relevant type approval authority... " Some SKODAs"? Apparently Duncan Kay, DfT Head of Environment Team has also confirmed the fix "causes about twice" the level of diesel particulate matter, I.e. unburnt hydrocarbons. I suspect we shall learn more in due course. Irrespective of official or advertised figures, if it were to be shown that the cars only complied with Euro 5 legislation with the fix and the fix inherently increased fuel consumption, then owners have a good case for mis-selling. Purchasers did not only base their buying decisions on official figures, but also on magazine reviews, test drives etc of non-compliant cars.

Do you know if you got the revised EGR? If I was you, I would keep a record of all your refuelling with dates, mileages and reported mpg. There should come a time when VW group have to refund for extra fuel consumption compared to the advertised figures at time of sale. For Skoda's, I do not think DfT believe that fuel consumption was unaffected by the fix.

See my post to Bertie90. There is probably no way they can reverse it. There is now a password controlled locking routine in the software flashing that prevents a return to earlier versions. One owner on the FB group, Ian Rawlinson managed to get an independent to circumvent it.

You are not alone. VAG group franchises have been applying the update without informed consent and sometimes surreptitiously when cars go in for other things, not just servicing. You should tell your MP and continue to complain to Skoda HQ. The Department of Transport have also asked to be informed of these cases, so you should tell them at [email protected] Some owners have received 500 quid payments or shopping vouchers after complaining and a small number have demanded to have the car be replaced with an unfixed one or similar petrol equivalent. The Facebook closed group, The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal), shows what others are trying to do to get recompense, see the pinned top post, question 16 in the FB group. Do not let them get away with it.

Did you get to see the first original EGR that was replaced? There was a shortage of replacements and I have a suspicion that some dealers only took them out and tried to clean them before replacing them. There is supposedly a new version of the EGR now available, so you should ask if you are getting one of those and ask to see the old one. There may also be a new update of the update, so you should ask about that too.

It is actually quite easy to read the codes. Deleting the fault codes sometimes helps, but in your case you want Sinclair to read what is there to help resolve the problem. I am in Haverfordwest, just off Crowhill Rd so pop in if you are passing and it is dry.

Standard letter apart from the last bit - "fairly" durable etc is gobbledygook. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They know it is not true, but politically they need the fix done as they failed in allowing the Skodas to be certified in the first place with the cheat device and they need to be seen to be trying to reduce NOx. If they were honest, they would have to both have the cars removed from the road, prosecute VW over the fraud and help get compensation for 1.2 million people in UK. The EGR valve has a poor history of failing in operation even before the fix, which may be the main reason they created the cheat in the first place. Hopefully you get the redesigned EGR. You could try to get the old EGR and the box of the new one if they replace the current one. However that is very unlikely as they are covering their tracks and probably will not even give you documentation about the work they carry out

OBD is on board diagnostics - basically a standard plug to get access to the car's ECU. This can let you read and clear the stored fault codes and, with the right software, check the status of various paramenters such as the soot level in the DPF. I have one if you want it read. If you get your own you can monitor live data too - only costs about 10 quid for the hardware and some more for the software, best on an android tablet rather than a phone if you have on.

If you are going to get the fix reversed, you should check you get the right version - post a question here and on the FB pages. VW have made it difficult by requiring a password to go to earlier versions so you need the right kit. Beware that remapping is not the same as reversal, the former only changes the operating parameters that the ECU uses and not the program code itself. I am not aware of anybody near here who can do it. Your best bet is probably to let Sinclair try to sort it out first - they may fix it and you may get some new replaced components, but it will probably still behave differently, eg less torque at low revs, worse fuel economy and more frequent regenerations of the DPF

"First thing to 'try' " does not inspire confidence. A lot of people on the FB group have ongoing problems with EGRs and dealers often do not have much idea. The ECUs are not storing the fault codes apparently, probably because the data would be incriminating. There are reports of a new improved EGR being produced. The original was always rubbish and many failed pre the fix fiasco. There also reports that some replacement EGRs get modified with a special tool prior to fitting. Have you got an OBD reader to see what the car thinks is going on? Whatever happens, make sure you do not pay them a penny.

Sorry. Too many acronyms in government. IVS is the International Vehicle Standards division of DfT. They worry about standards and safety, apparently for cars certified by bodies other than our VCA, Vehicle Certification Agency. It is not easy to know who is responsible for what. VSB are supposed to capture data and VCA and IVS should monitor it, especially if there are concerns about compliance to type. One notable development is an apparent update of the update for the VW and Audis and no sign that this update was approved by the German KBA. It would be worth knowing if Skodas get a newer version of the updates too, because if the first software update fix needed VCA approval, so should the subsequent ones

Probably, but the FB group is predominantly VW and Audi as they had the fix earlier and contains a lot of naive owners who probably should never have bought a diesel in the first place. I have been promoting the official safety defect reporting route. DfThave received enough limp mode reports to come up with an official response. Officially limp mode is not dangerous. I presume that if they took the opposite view it would open the floodgates to all sorts of awkward consequences for DfT. Stalling must be different if it results in no ability to manoeuvre. What it somebody from IVS you spoke to?

OK. Can I mention your contact with them on FB? Which department did you talk to and did you get anything in writing?

Have you joined the Facebook group The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal) ? They have been promoting people suffering limp mode in dangerous situations to contact IVS/VSB. I do not think stalling has been focused on. If you have experienced any part of DfT showing an interest in stalling as a safety issue could you post your experience there? It should encourage others to submit their experiences

People are getting refunded by VW for EGRs, injectors and even turbos. Sometimes the ongoing costs are greater than the value of the cars and all the work has been done as "goodwill" because they cannot create a precedent and admit anything, otherwise the initial sale of 11.5 million cars would have been fraudulent. So if you keep pressing them, they should pay for all the costs. They are taking at least 6 weeks to process refunds at the moment apparently. I assume their workload will increase as more cars get the software and then fail

Unfortunately the DVSA current position is that an emission fault that triggers limp mode whilst in motion is not considered a safety issue as the powers that be think the car can be brought to a halt safely. I doubt whether any of them have been in a car when it happens at 70 mph in lane 3 of a busy motorway, which has been reported - the Facebook group shows lots of correspondence with DfT/DVSA/VCA/IVS and comments - quite depressing as they will probably only react to the issue when somebody gets killed.

Dealers are supposed to tell you about the software update before applying it and get the customer's consent. The update is not mandatory. Many do not even mention it and just ask the customer to sign a piece of paper which includes something like service action 23R7. If you feel it was applied without consent, VW group have been giving out 500 quid vouchers to some owners as compensation. If the car suffers as a result, you should demand it is fixed at no cost to you with use of a free loan car if necessary. It is covered by the Skoda "Trust Building Measures" - http://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/dieselinfo/trust-building-measure/ - and there is a closed Facebook group you can join for advice and support. The pinned post at the top of the FB group page is very informative - The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal). I have joined the FB group and been avoiding taking my car to Fred Rees due to the risk of having the update imposed without consent. I was lucky in becoming aware of the VW problems at an early stage. Good luck with sorting it out

St Davids Pembs? If so, was it Fred Rees garage and did they advise or discuss the update before it was applied?

All the VAG brands say they cannot remove the fix and I have seen no case of it being done by a dealer. There has been a suggestion that the dealers cannot flash the ECU to a lower version number with the kit they use, but chip tuners can if they have the original image However, there are many different versions. It is probably worth plugging in a code reader and checking which version you are now on for future reference. There have been several cases of dealers doing the update without consent and even when the car was in for something else.

Well the DVSA have been notified of a few and some people are talking to solicitors. Members of the FB group are recommending others to go to court over it. DVSA have been advising owners to address the issue to VW HQ and Willis to sort out and trying not to get involved, but I think they are going to have to act as some fixed cars are simply stalling at junctions without any warning - no lights or limp mode and, strangely and worryingly, no recorded error codes. Others have gone into limp mode at high speed on motorways for no obvious reason. The safety defect reports going to DVSA cannot be ignored and I think that sort of thing is going to get the honest techy types to act, irrespective of political pressure from Grayling et al

Vegit8 you should probably join the Facebook group. Plenty of people going through the same thing, a problem shared and all that - https://www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/?ref=group_header

Gadgetman. It may be optional, but it is not stopping dealers some doing it without consent. If you take an EA189 in for anything and you do not want the fix applied, you should make damn sure you tell them and sign the VAG decline form. Check out the Facebook group - plenty of cases of it happening - https://www.facebook.com/groups/955027937948541/?ref=group_header