Graham Butcher

Exactly, claiming that EVs started it or not are NOT actually helping their cause, but unless that photos was faked, they were in involved. The world's fire brigades as I posted before can see that there is a real problem which is not going to get any better, only get worse, as more and more EVs take to the road to the point where they are not the minority any more but become the majority and if nothing is done to improve their safety that a real massive problem is just waiting to happen.

You might want to reconsider your post and your statement, "So the uncontrollable fire on the ship had nothing to do with EV's. " When you watch this video from an actual real life motoring correspondent, and I'd be inclined to believe his expert knowledge over that of a German Politician as quoted in the article that you referred to. Very often politicians resemble the main stream media in as much as they have a hidden agenda and will often twist the truth to suit that agenda. In fact, I have seen that photo that is shown in the video before, I'm pretty sure that it has been posted here in this thread, and I was a bit concerned by it then, but was unable to work out why I was uncertain until this guy points it out. Strangely enough, I have since looked for that photo here, but it no longer seems to here, so maybe the poster has removed it? Once again, before everyone dog piles me, I'm not saying that the fire was started by a EV, but that it certainly appears that EVs were involved in the fire and that would explain why the fire was able to ravage the entire length of the ship and why it was so difficult to put out (assuming the CO2 system was deployed). All these answers should be revealed in the official report when it comes out, which is often a few years later. But for now it is looking like a massive whitewashing job and cover up job. When it was first announced, the amount of EVs was played down to 25, when in fact there were 498 and also, all the other brands of cars were able to provide details of their exposure to the fire but not VW, that seems to be odd. I offer 2 videos for consideration, and I suggest you take them in the order listed for clarity.

That is the ideal price point to encourage more people to take up an EV for sure, trouble is however that small cars just do not suit everyone, certainly not for me. Nobody would be able to use the seat behind me as I'd need the drivers seat to be all the way back till it was touching the back seat, in order to drive it. And there is no way on earth I'd be able to get all weekly shopping for done for 4 people into that boot space, I'd have to make multiple trips, thus adding to the traffic congestion and also of course increased chances of be involved in an accident and of loosing my parking spot while out so much. And with such a small boot space, there is nowhere to put our steps when visiting military airfields etc.

This is still not concrete evidence by your own terms of reference, it needs to written by a couple a professors 😆😆 I'll wait for the official report to confirm the actual cause. Personally I hope no EVs were involved at all, it would improve confidence in them.

Well, I'm not going head-to-head with you on that one, let's just wait and see what happens, but my gut tells me, that software and electronics have minds of their own at times and thanks to Murphys footsoldiers, capacitors will wreak havoc in time, mark my words on that one.

Well both really.

Now this is the type of thing we need more of, up to now it has been one of the missing links in the whole EV loop, now we need to address the problem of preventing / or reducing the chances of thermal runaway, maybe design the sealed enclosure so that if it happens, they vent downwards rather than sideways to minimise the collateral damage (dragging other EVs into the meltdown and creating a massive chain event). While it is a pretty rare event now for EVs to catch fire, as they become more common, the events will increase naturally. The other elephant in the room that everyone needs to take on board before complacency sets in, is that it is also very rare for new cars to catch fire, it tends to be older cars, 10 plus years old with many miles under their belt and everything is getting worn and fuel drips onto hot exhausts etc, so we might well see increases in EV fires as they age. I think the reason why EV hire cars are so expensive to hire is a reflection of their higher purchase price, higher performance, and also their higher insurance costs, seems to be a perfectly logical conclusion.

More wind turbines?

I tried a Enyaq, still not as big as a Superb and a much smaller boot as well.

How many people have the ability to charge at home which the above figures are assuming, plus you need to factor in the £1,000 plus cost of the home charger and its installation, plus the extra up front costs of the EV against its ICE equivalent, also of course there aren't that many EVs that could accommodate 4 people that 6ft 4" tall and still have a boot space similar to that of a Superb. Most of the public chargers, which I would have to use, are in the realms of 50p per KWh and higher, which destroys your calculations, then if you don't do that many miles per year, any potential savings are not worth having as the upfront extra cost is never going to be repaid unless you keep the car for a long time. As I've always thought and said, EV's are currently not suitable for everyone and if the above figures are reflecting your scenario, then I'm pleased for you, but is not the case for a large part of the population.

Ideas like that may be the catalyst that is required to convince people to make the switch to EVs as well reducing the cost of ownership to make EVs comparable to that for ICEs. I know that @wyx087 goes on about overall costs, but that is of little comfort if the cost of entry is seen as being prohibitive for those on low incomes, it has to be affordable. Overall costs are such a subjective issue as they will vary greatly by the style of driving and of course the annual mileage, but ticket to the dance has to within grasp and not just to the better off sectors of the population.

Thank you Colin, I have been trying to do just that but someone has to keep poking the fire because I don't share their particular point of view. Strange when most of us agree things need to change. 👍

Interesting that he said about e scooters have been banned from being inside buildings in America and they only have a very small battery. Maybe that is where the London thing is coming from. As I understand it, it is not the authorities banning EVs in their residential underground carparks but the leaseholders or someone with the responsibility for the overall safety for the entire of a building as a whole? 6. They said it was a brand new EV car costing £22,000. 7. A new car with a 2014 number plate 🤥 8. There is so much to this story.

Thanks to you all, I have now been able to update my 2016 map set to the 2023 current ones 👍 Now does anyone know how I can make or get my own POIs and enter them?

Whatever evidence I provide, you somehow try and rubbish it or totally ignore it and then you go on to provide evidence that second hand EVs are less expensive than ICE cars with this link https://www.speakev.com/threads/second-hand-evs-are-cheaper-than-ice.179449 🙄 Are you trying to say that I shouldn't want to buy a new car because new EVs cost more than their new ICE equivalents. Then when I said about old second hand EVs would also suffer from battery degregation and thus less range and tried to counter that with "There's a healthy scrap market for second hand batteries: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=leaf+battery&_sacat=0 So to my mind, how would an old EV be liability when its batteries are an asset waiting to be re-used? " How on earth does that relate to what I was saying. Firstly eBay is not a scrap market, the prices shown on that link are what they are selling them for, not what I could get if I brought a second-hand EV and replaced the battery and sold the old one, and then the that car would leap up and become much more expensive than and an ICE car. You gave me this link Electric Vehicles | Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service (bedsfire.gov.uk) which only mentions E scooters and even then hardly anything about them. I could have hit you with these links but I decided it was not worth it because you would not even accept what they were saying as gospel. Lets try it and see, here are some links that actually the scale of the problem and these are some die hard ICE lovers but mainly people charged with trying to protect us and our property when things go wrong, are they all so wrong???? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwxZu3nVOZ0 The Red Boxx – a Bathtub for Cars – open source lab (dfki.de) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_e ... _incidents Essex firefighters adapt to new hazards in electric vehicle fires | Essex County Fire and Rescue Service (essex-fire.gov.uk) Electric car batteries: What you need to know (firerescue1.com) Firefighters develop special vehicle to fight EV fires in car parks (thedriven.io) Firefighters still struggle to defeat EV fires effectively | CarExpert Electric Vehicle Fires Spark Firefighter Safety Concerns | The Regulatory Review (theregreview.org) Firefighters Still Aren't Sure How to Quickly Defeat EV Fires (jalopnik.com) Electric Vehicle Safety Advice | County Durham and Darlington Fire and Rescue Service (ddfire.gov.uk) Emergency responders guide for alternatively fuelled vehicles (nationalfirechiefs.org.uk) UK company reveals 6WD EV battery fire response truck | Autocar Fire crews' fears over electric car blazes as they are having to double the crews sent to deal with them because their batteries cause 'rocket-like' infernos | Daily Mail Online Thermal runaway EV battery fires controlled with water cutting tech | Auto Express Data reveals extent of electric vehicle fires around the UK | CE Safety Blog Tackling fires in electric vehicles (ife.org.uk) Electric Cars Have One Problem: They Keep Lighting People's Houses on Fire (futurism.com) Lydden Hill Race Circuit fire started in battery of Special ONE team electric car while charging, say FIA World Rallycross Championship officials (kentonline.co.uk) (500) EV fires are tough to fight and pose new hazards. Inside the race to get responders ready. - YouTube (502) Why Are Electric Vehicle Fires So Hard To Put Out? - YouTube (502) Why Tesla, GM And Other EV Companies Have A Fire Problem - YouTube (541) Examples of Lithium Battery Fires - YouTube (544) Is Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP/LiFePO4) Safer? - YouTube (541) Can Lithium-ion Battery Fires be Extinguished: Small/Medium Devices - YouTube (541) Fighting EV car fires with the FIRE ISOLATOR concept - Live testing UPDATED VERSION - YouTube (544) Controlling and fighting EV car fires with the Fire Isolator concept - live demonstration March 2022 - YouTube (544) Do Firefighting Tools for Extinguishing Electric Vehicle Fires Really Work? - YouTube (544) Electric Vehicle Fires: Let It Burn - YouTube (544) Does Submerging Electric Vehicle Fires Work? - YouTube (544) Vehicle Fire Data: Electric vs. Combustion - YouTube (544) Why Tesla Fires are Impossible to Put Out - YouTube (544) Lithium-ion Battery Fires: Full Charge vs. Low Charge - YouTube

@wyx087 I'm so sorry, you are taking what I'm saying so personally and skirting around what I've written and misunderstanding the points I've raised. If it has got professional firefighters in many countries highly concerned when there aren't so many BEVs on the road, and yet they really are worried about the consequences, I suppose that we the public shouldn't be concerned at all? Look, it's clear that you can see nothing wrong here, so I think its best if we just draw a line in the sand on this issue and lets it leave there.

Maybe you might have to leave your BEV either side of the channel and then hire another when you get to the other side?

Good question, I don't think that there is any restrictions currently, but I won't know as I have never used them, someone will have the answer I'm sure.

@wyx087 Sorry but I'm not ducking any question, also I have never indicated that EV's are not a possible solution. I'm saying that the compulsion is the wrong way to effect the change, there is still a lot of room to improve the technology still further to make all aspects of EVs safer from the mining of the minerals through to the adoption of them as the only means of transportation. EVs don't have any tailpipe emissions is correct, but they are not squeaky clean either, they also have tyre emissions, and some brake emissions, granted they use regen braking so brake dust is less. But in this country at least, a lot of the energy that we stuff the battery with is going to be produced by the burning of fossil fuels for many years to come. Westminster is granting loads more oil drilling platforms for the North Sea. UK defies climate warnings with new oil and gas licences - BBC News So in essence this will mean the same amounts (more or less) of CO2 and NOX etc will be produced by power stations generating the power for EVs and all that concentration of pollution will be at various locations across the UK, rather than dispersed across the country. Both ICE and BEV owners / drivers will, for some time to come, be contributing to global warming and air quality. Do you agree that the air quality on the London Underground, is many times worse than the air at the surface, and yet, there are no internal combustion engines on the tube network, so is the car really such a bad thing seeing as there are hundreds of thousands of all types of cars, ICE and BEVs on the roads, and yet the air quality is better at ground level than on the tubes. How does that fit in with Net Zero? I suppose the real question is, "Are we being told the real truth" about the push towards BEVs.

It is not 100% certain, he says it is unlikely to have been an EV, we will have to wait for the official forensic report in a few years time to be sure. But lets assume it was an ICE car, it just goes to show just how badly designed these carriers are that a fire can rage along a whole level with no fire doors or whatever to compartmentalise them to help prevent such an event. Lessons will hopefully be learned, and future ships have safety improvements incorporated. We also presume that the ship did deploy the massive CO2 systems that it was fitted with to suppress the fire.

Many thanks for the speedy replues and as I'm typing this, I'm also unzipping the files into a folder ready for installing in the car. I just thought I'd better check the correct way before risking bricking the system.

I'm not feeling threatened in the slightest bit, what I was rather hoping is that you others who appear hell-bent on kind of denying that we are entering into what is increasingly looking like being dominated by BEV's, landscape these events will become far more commonplace and your balanced holistic view will long have flown out the window because almost every car will in time be a BEV so the chances of seeing a car which has entered in runaway mode, or the chances of your car becoming an innocent victim of a similar event while parked in a parking spot will have increased by a significant factor. Yes the odds of a BEV going into the runaway mode on its own are slim, but it does indeed happen and if I park next to another ICE car, the chances of my car sustaining damage are far lower if the other car catches fire, then it would if that other car was a BEV in runaway mode, subjecting my car to the sustained jets of fire being emitted from the others batteries at low level as shown in some of the videos. That is all I've ever wanted people to acknowledge is that the future not as cosy looking as some people seem to be thinking it is. I and many other people I'm sure would rather we solve this problem properly before making it compulsory that all new cars in 2030 must either be hybrid and BEVs. As I'm sure I've already mentioned that we were led to believe that diesel was the answer to all problems and was the saviour of the world, a few years ago. Now we know that was a massive mistake and many people got badly burnt in the wallet 😉 by that as the diesel cars are more expensive and still are, and BEV's and hybids of all kinds are also more expensive and history is looking like its repeating itself all over again.

Which version will I need? Is this just a folder name that I have to unzip them to, or is it a particular version and if so, how is this done?

Here you go again, I have NEVER denied what you are saying is true but look at the way BEV shoot high pressure jets of fire outwards, not upwards when that failure mode is reached. Then factor in the chances of other BEVs being close to that and being caught on fire as a result. The batteries are low down where the jets of fire are, and then you should be able to understand the serious nature of a chain reaction taking place with a massive chance of lethal consequences for both life and limb, as well as building structures. If you need reminding, look at how the fire spread rapidly at the Grenfell Tower block and the huge loss of human life, and the building is also awaiting demolition. The chances of such a disaster increases with more BEVs coming on the road and towards 2030 there is a good chance of more BEVs than ICEs so that likelihood is greatly enhanced. I understand that you have a tesla, and I'm very happy and pleased that you like it, and you are unlikely to have any troubles with it, just as I am with my ICE as such incidents are rare but given the choice, I'd feel far safer in my diesel car in a terrible crash then I would in a BEV as diesel is very hard to burn but IF that battery compartment suffers and the batteries go into that state while you are either trapped or struggling to get out, your chances of survival just took a massive nosedive, sorry. Is because the fire brigades can see beyond your short-sightedness that they are conducting these tests as they get to see first hand far more car fires than you, or I will ever see in a lifetime, and it takes a lot to get them worried, but BEVs have managed to do that.

It is likely that your phone charge lead has a fault and has shorted out internally and the fuse blew before a fire started. I had a charging lead left plugged in but not connected to a phone by one of my sons in the old car, and I could smell smoke before I could see it. Pulled over and investigated and discovered trapped between the seat and the centre console, before it could get hot enough to become a fire. Never ever leave anything plugged in when not in use and certainly not when the car is unattended, it is just asking for trouble.