Graham Butcher

I have just downloaded the latest map dates for my car, using the VIN to ensure the correct version. This is a zipped file, does this need to be unzipped before trying to install the new maps, or does the Columbus do that as well as part of the process?

The true picture is this and there are plenty of links below that explain just how a EV can be both a normal car fire in the same way as an ICE car and be safely dealt with in precisely the same way, i.e., water or a blanket and the effectiveness is the same so just because an EV is on fire does not mean it requires any special treatment in the early stages of the fire. What can make EV cars more dangerous is the level of charge with in the battery and if the battery itself is the cause of the fire or has become compromised as a result of the heating effect of the "normal" fire and is entering its thermal runaway phase. Yes, the internet is awash with examples of batteries in the open, not sealed into water and airtight containers, and these batteries just have a flash and then burn. Once they enter thermal runaway when in that sealed container, they ARE then extremely dangerous, and it is when they are in this state that they are posing a far, far greater threat to life and also structures than ICE cars ever will. This is similar to the explosives in a bomb, remove the sealed steel casing and those explosives are far less dangerous. These links are only a few and I have found many more and these are not videos made by some random YouTube bloggers, they are in the main made by fire experts, i.e, fire brigades and research centre trying to learn more about how to deal with them when things go wrong. Anyone watching these and paying attention to what the experts are saying and then disagrees that EVs as we currently know them are very dangerous indeed is in denial of the truth. (541) Examples of Lithium Battery Fires - YouTube (544) Is Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP/LiFePO4) Safer? - YouTube (541) Can Lithium-ion Battery Fires be Extinguished: Small/Medium Devices - YouTube (541) Fighting EV car fires with the FIRE ISOLATOR concept - Live testing UPDATED VERSION - YouTube (544) Controlling and fighting EV car fires with the Fire Isolator concept - live demonstration March 2022 - YouTube (544) Do Firefighting Tools for Extinguishing Electric Vehicle Fires Really Work? - YouTube (544) Electric Vehicle Fires: Let It Burn - YouTube (544) Does Submerging Electric Vehicle Fires Work? - YouTube (544) Vehicle Fire Data: Electric vs. Combustion - YouTube (544) Why Tesla Fires are Impossible to Put Out - YouTube (544) Lithium-ion Battery Fires: Full Charge vs. Low Charge - YouTube

@lol-lolTotally agree with you, but the blanket needs to be there very early on in the fire especially if the fire is not actually in the battery, in that case it is no different in how you treat it to a ICE fire, water or as you say a blanket as it will cut the oxygen off from the fire and the fire will die out. Once the battery is comprised, it is game over, current lithium batteries do not need oxygen to burn and as a matter of fact, they will generate oxygen during the burning process due to the chemical reactions.

Browsing the internet just now while I'm downloading the latest maps for the Superb's Columbus on the laptop and this suggested video was presented to me on YT and you can understand why when send a parcel by Royal Mail they ask if there are any batteries in it before they accept it. Edit. It also now seems according to this video that e scooters are banned from the TFL network, does that also include London Buses I wonder??

@tootI thought it was a wind up 🤣

So why the mention of the minis being loaded onto level 8 then?

I was clearly referring to people killing themselves via car exhausts being fed into the cabin via hosepipes etc. And also the parking in open spaces was as mentioned, for damaged cars awaiting repairs after being involved in accidents, not normal parking. 😠

If this speculation about investigations started when the ship was moored in Eemshaven are correct, then it begs the question as to why was it allowed to sail?

Is that a fact then, all the reports I have seen suggest that it was all loaded up in Germany, no mention of the UK.

Oh for goodness’ sake, stop taking everything out of context, please.

He also said that there was a strong chance that EV cars had nothing to with the fire, it has not been proved to be the case.

Oh good grief, in order to do that before anything else is brought into the fire, you have to get the blanket there, you have to have good access all round the vehicle and you still need thousands of litres of water to keep the entire blanket cooled. The blanket does not starve the fire of oxygen as some may think as the battery chemicals release vast amounts of oxygen as part of the fire. All the blanket is doing is trying to prevent the fire spreading any further.

I 100% agree with what you say, and I never said that it was an EV that started any of these ship fires, so perhaps everyone can now delete that thought from their minds, please. However, it is still a fact that when an EV battery goes into thermal runaway they are exceedingly dangerous and the venting gases are not only highly toxic but burn like a rocket motor shooting flames out sideways, igniting anything within range. The internet is awash with reports and videos from all over the world from fire brigades explaining the problems that these vehicles create, normal car fires can be extinguished with ease, sadly that is not the case with EV and also leave behind massive volumes of highly toxic water etc that also adds further issues EV cars are LESS likely to catch fire than a ICE car, but when they do, they can be a real nightmare to deal with, surely people can see that for themselves.

Correct, it is not certain what caused either fires but crew members of the Fremantle Highway are supposed to have said that it was started by an EV though and judging by the inside photos of the aftermath it will be difficult to confirm either way. An interesting fact though, both the Felicity Ace and the Fremantle Highway had both departed the same port in Germany and were carrying German cars which included EVs. FA had both VW and Audi EVs, numbers not disclosed, and the FH also had EVs but so far what make has not been revealed, but it was originally claimed it only had 25 on board but was subsequently increased to 498 on board. Also of interest YMMV, is that there has been fires on board such ships in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2 in 2019, 2020, 2022, and 2 in 2023.

It is that high energy sidewise venting of fumes, toxins and fire that is possibly causing so many nasty fires on these car-carrying ships whereas ICE vehicles the flames are more or less going straight up and the EV's with the earlier battery types are creating chain effects with their blowtorch effect. This is also the reason why Thatcham are now saying that accident damaged EV's are to be stored outside and at least 15 metres away from other vehicles or objects etc.

I haven't heard of that sort of thing going on lately, although if my memory serves me right, it was a regular event in the Thatcher years. Maybe it is still happening, but the media don't report it anymore?

The thing is that I have stored among my many hard drives of many TBs tons of referencing evidences to I think back up all of my claims apart from the EV's not being allowed into these upmarket apartments that are springing up all along the Thames now of which some colleagues have told me about and I see no reason why they should be telling me lies. One said that his neighbour was complaining because the landlord had made him park his PHEV Range Rover outside and away from the building because of the insurance stipulations on the building. I just don't have the time to go trawling through the drives looking for them at the present moment. Now if your reference to the main stream media means TV and newspapers, well I gave up on those years ago since they became effectively muted by those that seek to control the narrative and treat us all like mushrooms and thus use the MSN to manipulate us in whatever fashion suits their purpose. I can't remember the last time I read a newspaper or watched the news, just to be fed a bunch of lies.😉

How true, I bet that if the designers of the engines, and cars in general were made to do these tasks that have to be done from time to time, that they would quickly make design tweaks to make their job easier and quicker. That would in turn trickle down to lower insurance costs as well I think.

Totally agree, but is that also a sign that there are not enough chargers to go round? I think that if there were more of them, it would encourage greater take up of EVs? Most petrol stations have around 8 pumps and if you are lucky there might be 2 chargers. How many ICE cars could be served in 60 minutes compared to EV's, that is a major block to people converting over. Also, I thought that charging to 100% reduces the battery life, aren't you only supposed to charge to something like 80%?

Yes, well to be honest that is my problem, it is not a pretty sight or very dignified so I'd much rather not have to do it if I can avoid it. 😉 If I had access to a hoist or a pit, I'd be under the car a lot, that's for sure. Come to think about it, the Superb also has its poor design points, like have to remove the entire front bumper and grill to replace a headlamp assembly. On old cars with round lamps, undo 1 screw, remove the chrome trim, push and rotate the lamp assembly slightly and the whole load came out in your hand, a 5 minute job in total, including replacing the bulb or unit again.

I have the same long under tray here waiting to be fitted by my local garage, I can't get down and under the car at my age like I used to, so I'm just waiting for a phone call when they can fit me in. It should have been already been fitted as standard on my diesel but when the dealer took delivery from Skoda fleet operations at the end of its lease, the tray was missing so the dealer has sent me a replacement to be fitted locally. If I want to drive 300 miles round trip they would fit it for me, but screw that, it would cost me more in fuel than the garage will charge me in labour.

I have far better things to spend my time on, then trying to prove my point. Lets agree to disagree and wait and see what the future holds, which you have far greater chance of seeing how it pans out seeing as I'm currently 75 anyway, I'm safe in the knowledge that I can, god willing, still use a ICE car if I want to all the way up to 2050 and if I'm still here then, I doubt that I'll be driving at 102 do you? One thing I don't want to do waste my time debating something that is hardly going to impact me 😉

@toot Not that I'm aware off 🙄 but are you really likely to get a car park full of Rolls Royces 🤣 On a more serious note, however, there are some car parks that have been strengthened, and I dare say there will be others Chelmsford High Chelmer car park repair work begins - BBC News wyx087 has already provided some evidence that it is a fact that EVs are not always heavier than their ICE counterparts, although I will try and confirm that because from my personal experience, the source he quoted (Parkers) is not infallible. I'd be more inclined to believe the manufacturer's own figures than a third parties. Also what would be a better example would be to quote cars where there is an EV version and also an ICE version of the same model rather than comparing a Telsa with an Audi and a Polestar with a VW.

@wyx087 Wow, did you read my earlier post where I stated that I'm not anti-EV at all, my only complaint with EV's is that soon everyone will be forced into either running an EV, or giving up driving all together and using whatever form of public transport is around when the total ban on ICE cars and hybrids comes into play. It should be in my opinion left to the individual to decide between ICE or EV, or indeed a mix of the 2 technologies. I'm not an ICE evangelist either, but currently you're coming over like an EV evangelist who simply cannot hear anything said against EV's no matter how light-hearted it is or however much evidence against them is presented, lighten up a little and then we both might learn something. Surely you cannot deny the fact that EVs are a major problem in the event of a fire, there is no real way of putting them out once the batteries get into a thermal runaway situation. In 2022 there was a Ro-Ro car transporter called Felicity Ace carrying a load of ICE and EV cars that caught fire and sunk, this year there was the Fremantle Highway also caught fire, and it is claimed that on the Fremantle Highway, the fire was started by an EV, although that fact has yet to be determined, and it was a suspect in the Felicity Ace fire, but it is doubtful that will ever be proven either way. However, the mere fact that EV cars were caught in the fires has turned what could well have been extinguished by the flooding of the car decks with CO2 which is the primary means of fire suppression used on such vessels, caused the fires to burn out of control. EV batteries once they enter into thermal runaway generate their own copious amounts of oxygen, thus fuelling the fire even more. Have you seen a EV when the batteries go into thermal runaway and erupt fire in all directions like flamethrower on steroids, that is why damaged ones must be stored at least 15 metres away from any other object, this link refers to this EV batteries remain major challenge for insurers, Thatcham Research says | Reuters So I'll say it once more for the pure avoidance of doubt, I'm not anti EV, it is a new technology and appears to have some major drawbacks currently. Likewise I'm not a diehard ICE nerd either, I'm well aware of the dangers that both present. I'd sure hate to be in a car park where the majority of cars were EVs, in the event of fire occurring with one of them, I seriously doubt even the legendry Linford Christy could escape the resultant inferno, especially if it was an underground carpark.

The first point I currently cannot provide a link to but have it on pretty good authority from colleagues who have had to back out of some purchases of various flats in London because that was a clause in the agreement forms and I suspect in some way linked to the Grenfell Tower fire in 2017 was the ignition was blamed onto a faulty domestic fridge. There is also a requirement now for repairs involved in the repair of EV cars, especially those that have been involved in a road accident and awaiting repairs, that they are stored out in the open and at least 15 metres away from anything including any form of a structure. As to visitors, with parking at a premium in London, I fully expect that they like anyone else not already allocated their own bay, have to pot luck on the road way and not allowed access to the buildings underground parking bays. Multi-storey car park collapse, unlikely but I wouldn't dismiss it completely out of hand as I'm not an expert, but it could be possible. There is a multi-storey car park near me that was built some 50 odd years ago that has problems with reinforcing bars and is closed for mayor repairs Chelmsford High Chelmer car park repair work begins - BBC News It is certainly true that cars have become bigger and heavier since then and EVs are even heavier. Even blocks of flats have been known to collapse like this one killing 98 people Surfside condominium collapse - Wikipedia As to second hand EV cars being cheaper than ICE, there is a reason for that, the battery has already received a blow to its longevity and range capacity has been diminished just as the battery in your smartphone, laptop etc. Unlike a ICE car that has been properly looked after, their Achilles heel is in the form of rust and EVs will still have this problem in addition to the battery. With regard to being forced into an EV, yes we are, in 7 years time unless there is a major U turn by the UK government nobody will be able to buy a brand-new ICE car, only 2nd hand ones. So making 2nd class citizens of anyone without the funds to buy a brand-new EV (already far more expensive than their ICE versions) and then when will the forced scrappage of said ICE cars be made law?