Graham Butcher

I just checked both of those streets you mentioned and surprise, there is no official air monitoring station near there at all. The nearest one is in the middle of Devonshire Green, like a small park? Who told you that they were the worst areas?

Now I think about it a bit more, it's making me wonder happens with the adaptive cruise control, will it also bring on the brake lights if someone does something in front of you so it slows down really rapidly, will the brake lights come on to alert those behind?

Yeah, I'd go along with that but I'd like to chuck into the pot the ones designed to fool cameras with their illegal spacings, fonts, 3D characters and incorrect colouring, all so they can try and ignore speed cameras.

Do you mean reg plates that aren't in the middle of the car such as some Alfas or those with 3D lettering or illegal spacings etc?

Indeed there is and it is happening here in Essex as per my post above yours.

Yep, I understand that, but in the case he showed, it wasn't working and the slowing down was reasonably fast. It would be far safer to forget one pedal driving and instead opt for a similar setup to my diesel car, i.e, if I lift my foot off the throttle, the car goes into "coasting" mode like your Arkana so like you, I have to allow for longer stopping distances. But as soon as I touch the brake pedal, the car engages the transmission again to increase braking effect, now if EV cars did similar, touching the brake pedal would then activate the brake lights and engage regen braking without wasting energy on mechanical brakes unless you needed to stop sooner. In fact that would be a more beneficial system all round as it would allow for some sort of range extension by allowing you to coast whenever you get the opportunity to, then touching the brake pedal brings in reg braking, with brakes lights latched on, further pressure of the brake pedal brings in mechanical brakes as well and a touch of the throttle disengages brake lights and normal mode is operational, much safer then getting used to a one pedal drive and then for some reason, you have revert to a ICE car for a short spell you won't forget to use the brake pedal. 🤣 Thats a winner all round.

Have you checked to see if those locations are on the map I referred to? On the broader picture of these CAZ schemes, I can see that these are perhaps more of a trojan horse and are the prelude to a full-blown road charging scheme nationwide and will be linked into a nationwide network so every journey you make will be tracked and the types of roads driven on and the time of day will attract differing rates. You may be aware that there are plans to do away with cash and only have a digital system, so this type of scheme would deduct the fees directly from your online account. There are many more similar low emissions zones coming, many in already in operation and even in Oxford car free zones as well.

@lol-lol Wow, this was quick I managed to find that video I mention in the above post, have a look and tell your thoughts on this.

Actually, without getting into an argument about anything, your assumption about my understanding of how EV braking is done is incorrect. Some EV cars actually mention One Pedal driving mode in their blurb but that in itself could be placing you in great danger as it has been demonstrated that on certain cars at least, such system does not operate your rear brake lights so anybody following behind you and paying close attention may not notice that you are slowing down until its too late, and you get rear ended (pun not intended 🙄) This because some EV cars still use a switch operated by the brake pedal to switch the lights on. There is a video about this, and I'll try and dig it for you to have a look at, and the present has placed a series of cameras to make sure that the viewer can clearly see the dangers are not faked or clickbait etc. It might take a time to track this down

No, it was a mild hybrid, similar system to the F1 cars, uses the energy stored from regen braking to assist in accelerating and or pulling away from a stationary position. The driver has zero control over it, it is fully automatic in operation. As to the air quality at the location you mentioned, have a look at the attached screen prints taken this afternoon just after I ready reply, the actually air monitoring station is not at the retail park (which ps Frien Park Retail Estate but is located outside Bowes Primary School on the North Circular Road, which is about a mile away to the east of the retail park. The other one on the NCR is outside Ikea at Wembley which I attach a screen grab of at the same time, both of these readings are within safety zone which is below 50 so the first one reads just 3 and the Ikea one reads just 38. Hence why I doubt anything a politician tells me as they generally have another motive, and in this it rather looks that is the case, do you agree 😉

Exactly right, maybe a little about me might save a lot of folk jumping on and covering old ground. I'm a retired electrical engineer who has always had a passion for electrics, technical things, buses and cars, so much so that when I was leaving school I thought long and hard about what I was going to do for a living. The careers service knew about these passions and said that they couldn't help me in finding employment with those interests. I went out one afternoon from school to see what I could do. I went into the local bus station (Eastern National) in those days and walked into the tiny engineering office at the back of the station where the servicing of the buses was done and asked if they had any jobs going as an auto electrician. An hour later I walked out with an apprenticeship that combined all of my passions and started work there the following week. The careers' officer was amazed that I had cracked it when their service had failed to make that kind of connection. So I went to college and passed all my exams, which were more involved than the courses that electrical contractors have to take. Went on to take a further course in advanced electrical engineering, and passed exams, did an instructor's course as well as the company were looking to set up their own in-house training facility as I had successfully taken on a couple of apprentices under my wing, while I was still completing my training, after the person was supposed to be teaching me on the job, got promoted to management, leaving me to run the electrical Dept and training 2 apprentices while looking after 2 bus depots with over 130 buses and coaches. So I'm not some wet behind the ears kid when it comes to technical issues, I have quite a good grasp of the issues at hand and processes involved, and so I tend to look over the fence before jumping, rather than just accepting what somebody else says I should do, especially when that person happens to be a politician, most of whom I would trust to replace a fuse in a plug top, and always have an ulterior motive. Anyway, enough about where I came from and why I question the whole EV thing, I was trained to never accept anything I was told at face value without first probing it and look around the back door so to speak and see what horrors are hidden away from view and then formulate an opinion and that is what I'm doing with regard to air quality, ULEZ and also the EV scene and what I'm seeing is not convincing me at present that these are in our best interests.

Yes, I know I will, even those people who hate EV infrastructure or the lack of it 😉 and say that they're going back to ICE when the time comes, all say that they absolutely love the instant oomph that the EV has. I had a Qashqai hybrid for almost 2 months when my mk2 got written off, and I was amazed at the oomph that gave me, but I also hated that occasionally it would, when I was stopping and trying to come to a nice smooth controlled stop, it would give a sudden forward jolt as I was applying less brake pedal pressure. This is how I was taught to drive by a bus driver, in order to use the brakes as little as possible, use the engine braking effect, to give your passengers as smooth a ride as possible. I just don't think that EV is the magic bullet that is cracked up to be. I've been a lifelong chronic Asthma sufferer and have been used to carrying round with me, 2 inhalers, neither of which I have not had to either use or indeed carry with me now for years as the air quality honestly has improved that much that I now have zero signs of any Asthma, even when I'm right inside the central zones of London. Hence why I was saying about being a cash cow and this global interactive live map of the air quality of countries and their cities and is zoomable right down to street level clearly shows that the UK air is good but laces like India for example need to take action to improve theirs. Air Pollution in World: Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Map (aqicn.org)

Which is exactly what I endeavour to all the time, and as for which is better overall for the planet EV or ICE, only time itself will tell. I see it really as just yet another version of the petrol v diesel debate and I can remember when we were all urged to switch over to diesel as it was a greener fuel, which we today know is not the case at all. Yes, I still drive a diesel because I love the way they deliver the torque low down in the rev range and achieve high MPG while still delivering the HP. I also like to think that with the modern diesels being so good on efficiency that the impact on the environment is less per litre because of the greater distance travelled on that litre. I've not seen any evidence to that effect, but it seems to me to be a logical conclusion?

You are so right about the choice of tyres makes a lot of difference, I always look for tyres that have the best wet grip combined with the lowest db rating I can find. Also, new tyres are also far quieter than worn tyres so I guess that is down to the amount of rubber between the road and the wheel, i.e, more tread depth and so more ability to flex and absorb more of the undulations of the road and stopping them being transmitted though to the car.

@wyx087 Look, we both make some good points that reflect how we use the vehicles, and we keep on scoring points off each other till the cows come home so I'm not going to continue this path other than to say that going full on EV adoption will just add yet more damage to the earth in addition to the oil wells, which we will still need in addition to the other resources for EV's as we still need plastics which are derived from oil, we still need grease and lubrication oils which are also by products from the production of petrol and diesel. Therefore, what are we going to use petrol and diesel for in the future? Does it not make sense to continue using it like we do now, but carry on looking for ways to use it more effectively, so we use less of it to achieve the same result and also find ways to eradicate the harmful emissions without adding more problems. Just managing to use less with the same results is a major win because that also means less emissions at the same time.

Not everyone will drive in the same fashion as you do, many younger drivers will still rely heavily on brakes, They are also the drivers who tend to overtake you where others would hang back as they can see zero advantage in arriving at the next set of lights a couple of seconds before you, just to waste the fuel overtaking and then spend the time gained stationary at the lights while you roll up and stop right behind them.

Speaking as a person who has had a mk2 L&K Superb and now a mk3 L&K Superb, I can honestly say that in my view the mk2 was far quieter and far better built than the mk3.

Good as well from me, I have seen similar just round the corner from me.

Not ever going to, or have I disputed that, but the fact still remains that they have brakes, and they do get used to varying degrees, as does my ICE car as it also has regenerative braking. So did my previous car and when we parted company at almost 80,000 miles in 9.5 years, it was only on its 2nd set of pads and original discs. Regenerative braking is good, but it can't slow a car quick enough to avoid accidents due to others actions on the road. So no I'm not lacking in knowledge, but I'm a realist and accept the facts that are there in full view for everyone to see. It is becoming increasingly clear that EV cars carry a significant fire hazard with them and I understand that some residential buildings in London area at least will not allow them into their underground car parks due to the insurance companies will not provide cover. Repair centres for EV cars that have been involved in accidents are being told by insurers that they must now store EV vehicles awaiting repairs, outside in the open air and at least 15 metres away from other structures or vehicles. Hydrogen vehicles are also not the answer as they also carry a huge fire and explosion risk, and a hydrogen explosion is hugely destructive, many times more so than a current petrol vehicle. I used to think that EV was the way forward until I looked into it more and I now I see that it is not the solution either but one thing for sure, I do believe that we will stumble upon something that will be far better than anything we currently have if we keep working on it.

I'm not too sure what you mean when you say it is by personal choice, what other options do you have apart from gas or electric? Electric just really moves the pollution to somewhere else as a huge amount of our electric comes indirectly via the burning of fossil fuels, so other people near generating stations get to suffer the harmful air? Ever moving goal post, yes this is a problem, but the fact is that tailpipe emissions have been reducing for years, and so has the amount of fossil fuels such as coal being burnt. In fact, it is on record that London and other major cities and towns had very poor air quality and bad fogs even back in the 1800s, so in real terms we have never had it so good, despite the increase of personal transport in the form motor vehicles. Back in 1952, London had 5 long days of continuous thick fog that also took the lives of somewhere between 4,000 and 12,000 Londoners according to historical records. Just because EV's don't have a tailpipe, it does not mean that they themselves don't generate a large amount of pollution because that is simply not true, rubber wear, brake pads all contribute to air quality. They also generate huge amounts of pollution in the mining/extraction of the raw materials and the shipping of those across the globe as raw materials and then again as partly finished goods and then again as fully assembled cars. And there is a huge problem with exploitation, environmental damage and masses of water used in the extraction of the minerals to make up the batteries. This water is in a location that is also naturally challenged for water anyway which is having a huge impact on the populations in these areas and farming for food also suffers. So for us over here to enjoy less pollution, in other parts of globe others are getting that pollution. Lets make it clear, I'm not saying that I have or know the answers to the problems, but I do seriously doubt that making EV compulsory or even giving up our personal modes of transport for public mass transport is the answer either, it really ought to be down to personal choice as none of us know what breakthroughs are just around the corner. But I think that we can now make a big difference by not buying any more of these large engined vehicles when they are using same road network as the rest of us are and their enhanced performance cannot be realised anyway, a maximum capacity of 2L ought to be enough anyway.

True, but the vast majority of cars that old and many more younger will have met their maker either by being written off in RTAs or through scrappage schemes etc as the authorities tighten the noose around their necks even more as the years tick by. For example, this video gives loads of information and the information he is referring to can be found and downloaded here as a spreadsheet. Car scrappage scheme in 2009 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Agreed, but given that the World Health Organisation have said that air with a QI index of 50 and lower is good and poses no threat to people being outside and exposed to it. In fact in the average house, levels are often considerably higher as a result of the gas being used for cooking or heating, means that more Londoners and indeed people anywhere, are daily exposed to poorer air quality in their own homes, schools, offices etc, so what is being done about those positions? The motorist is sadly an easy cash cow to help plug some fiscal black holes in both local and national officials growing financial black holes. It is also highly likely also that by 2030, there may be hardly any Euro 5 cars left, as the emission standards will get progressively more draconian and the bad boy by then might Euro 6 or even Euro 7 which already considerably lower tailpipe emissions. One thing that they could do is to ban the larger, more polluting engines like those in the Chelsea Mud Pluggers and high performance/luxury cars. with the ever decreasing speed limits, they make zero sense.

@lol-lol I think you will find if you dig into it a bit more that EV cars might not be the answer either. There can be no denying that our air has become massively cleaner over the years. I can remember in the 70s driving a lorry in London that on many occasions everything just ground to a complete halt, or at best a crawl with engines at idle in 1st gear as the air was so polluted that in places you could not see 3 bus lengths away, and the buses back then were only 27ft (8.2m) long. We have come a long way since then, coal was the fuel of choice for heating and London in those days had loads of industrial estates and heavy industry / foundries all contributing massively. These days, those factories etc have gone (mostly overseas), industrial estates mostly now have become housing estates or retail parks and gas / electric is now used for heating and engines have grown to be more efficient and far cleaner and now of course we are on Euro 7 class of cleaner engines. Cars these days are also do not emit far less pollution than they used, but also many do massively more miles to gallon. Back then I had a 1.2L Ford Cortina which did in the low 20s to the gallon and now I have 2L Superb in which I regularly get over 60 mpg and way lower tailpipe emissions, thats a sign of how far we have come, for example almost a tripling of MPG and more likely a massive 10 times or higher less emissions to boot. In fact in 1952 London had pea-souper fog that lasted for 5 days and killed at least 4,000 plus people, some estimates say it was more like 12,000. Hmm, maybe that is where the current London Mayor plucked his 4,000 Londoners dying prematurely from air pollution.

Looking at the data it would certainly seem that these clean air zones are indeed more to do with raising revenue than cleaning air which is already considered by WHO as clean and safe.

Interesting, seems to be a bit of politics at play there, here is a print screen of Glasgow done just a few minutes ago, and you can clearly see the air is excellent and safe. I did a bit of checking on some the worst spots in London by drilling down into the data on the AQI map, zoom in really close, and it will show where air monitoring equipment is located. By doing this and then using Google Earth street view it is possible to see some of the reasons for some of the higher readings and in London, it is not the tailpipe emissions at all to blame. The equipment has in many locations been located by subway entrances/exits, next to underground stations entrance/exits and also where the intake vents for the equipment is adjacent to the kitchen windows of catering establishments or right in the middle of quite housing estates. This suggests that the biggest culprit for bad air quality is the burning of gas for heating/cooking, as it has been shown that far higher readings of bad air are obtained in the average house than the air outside. Also, the air on the London Underground system is appalling, and yet they still want people to use the tube rather than drive.