Graham Butcher

Correct, I was not implying anything than that. To my mind, a small car equates to low power as it does not have to lug around a large heavy body and I also said a full charge was enough to cross the island 4 times without needing to charge. Meaning that a person can live on one coast, and work on the other coast and the car has enough power to do 2 days commuting without charging and that with home charging the economics really make a compelling argument. Well the next video YouTube next offered me this as a recommendation to watch, and I don't normally watch tool videos

@Ootohere The other day, we were discussing why I was saying that Orkney was an ideal place for EV adoption and a small low power car was the ideal car for the local conditions etc, well it seems I was not too not far away from the truth after all. And this may help to explain perhaps why the McMaster seems to have the uncanny knack of finding all the duff chargers on his trips / challenges? WTF is going on here, this video was just suggested to me, again, the same dealer, same location (Orkney) and no, I have not subscribed to his channel, nor have I done a YT search for anything thing to with Orkney or the Nissan NV200...

@Ootohere Yes we still do have a few of them around, but the ones I'm talking about were specially designed as taxis with wheelchair access as part of the design and were designed, and I seem to recall once proposed as the replacement for London black cab. There were all decked out with a special low access floor on the left and just a few seats with a large spot in the centre for the wheelchair with a couple of dropdown seats like the black cabs have. Inside they were nothing like a traditional minibus, which are still used a lot for party bookings. I see on the other page about these that BJ approved them and I think, helped a bit with the concept etc, maybe that is the reason they don't seem to around much these days. THE NISSAN NV200 LONDON TAXI (nissannews.com)

True, there are now many Tesla taxis here now, and indeed even some Ford Focus's that before would not have been acceptable on size grounds, but these days large cars are becoming less common unless of course we're talking the mega expensive or large SUV's. What ever happened to the minibus taxis that were all the rage a few years ago, now they mostly seemed to died out, they were even producing special variants specifically as taxi cabs?

People used to say much the same thing I think about MP3 players, they were perfectly happy with the Sony Walkmans, then the Mini disc players, then the MP3's then that all could incorporated in the smartphone. EV's would also I think would have followed a similar path, as long as they were cheap enough to buy and very cheap to run. They would have started out more likely as just small city cars with very limited range but would have grown rapidly as the refinement was built-in, battery tech improved etc, capability and size also improved, but still coupled to the 2 important metrics of cost of ownership and cost of running, then they could well have been well on their way by now to becoming that smartphone equivalent. Sometimes I think that when a government decides to try and enforce something, that it can actually work against their aims and to a certain extent that might well be happening now with EV's, especially here in the UK when you go on about air quality and then when you discover that we have good air here, but many other places don't, yet are still pushing forwards on a almost total worldwide ban on new ICE ant yet, their air quality is not improving. It makes people question if there is another motive at play.

They could, but this party would never do that as they worship money far too much to even give it a single seconds consideration.

Yes, I think they would still be here, people have always loved to have the very latest thing on the block and always will. We had loads of Toyota Prius's around yours ago when there was no government legislation, slowly ramping up the pressure on us to switch. Governments would have done better, I think, to have sat back and watched, facilitated the installation of the national support system for them and let the flow gather pace, just as they have done with rise of mobile phones and then onto smartphones, they have achieved world domination, and it was all done by making them desirable and what has now largely become peer pressure.

Yeah, but that is also just as bad an EV driver or owner who charges at home and says that EV is cheap motoring and that everyone should be doing it, knowing full well that not everyone has the same ability for home charging, or the same driving requirements.

Currently, £1.46 a litre here.

Exactly, that is why it would have made much more sense to just allow them to be purchased as and when people want them. As the technology becomes of age, there will be many more advancements making them more affordable, more desirable and better charging solutions developed, and I'm pretty sure that they would have picked up pace and become the most popular choice by default once it was highly visible just how reliable they were and just how cheap they can be to run with home charging.

@lol-lol yes I expect they have to read on the high side just like speedos do for a margin of safety.

Hang about, I thought the optimum was to try and keep the battery within the 20 to 80% range but also that the battery had a optimum charge cycle life, so if thats true, surely then you wouldn't want to automatically plug in and charge it each day if you had sufficient charge for your next journey left over at the end of each day?

I can't vouch for Windows 11, still on 10 myself, but I'm not having the same degree of luck your having, but then again I could be, it might just come down to other add-ons I have like NAS drives etc, old legacy scanners etc. It often seem like the updates install OK but these extra bits then stop working until it gets reported to MS who then up with solutions. That would be perhaps be the biggest worry with EV's when after market items are fitted later, and if they don't play nicely with the latest OTA updates to the OS, will they cause problems full stop with the other parts of the car like, the gear selector mode on the screen (swipe D-N-R) etc or the Autonomous driving / cruising etc? Speaking of which, have you heard any more about that Jag and its driver who alleged that his car would not allow him to slow down/stop on the motorway??

Bearing in mind how the software updates that Microsoft puts out for their operating system and how often a downloaded update breaks something else so they have to hastily put out another update to fix the last one, I should think that OTA updates on cars could be a buttock clenching time in case some other part of the car starts to malfunction afterwards? Also, these computer updates can take a bit of time to do at times, depending on the size of the update, so on say a Tesla with the OTA updates, when does that occur, while the car is being used? While the car not in use? And if it updates when the car is not in use, what happens if you decide you need the car and its still doing the update, are you prevented from using car until its completed or how does that work? Has anyone ever experienced an issue at all?

@wyx087nobody is saying it is not possible to take a city or small EV on a long, but because of their smaller battery capacity, they need more frequent charging stops and thus longer time on the trip. Why did you elect to opt for the LR Tesla over the standard model? Was it perhaps to save charging stops and thus time on longer trips?

@Ootohere The possibility is there for almost every modern car these days to be remotely disabled with ever-increasing use of electronic tech in cars. This was never possible in the golden era of cars. Just imagine the situation if in WW2 that was possible then, the chaos it would cause, but for the side that had that power, victory would be a certainty.

@Ootohere Ok I stand corrected then, but still the maths using @wyx087 metrics of the comfort breaks remains true, just that the Mini is capable of even faster DC charging of upto 50kW but not the 200kW that he claimed, although his Tesla might well be. Also I was right in as much as for the folk on Orkney, who might never take their car on a longer journey then from point A to point B on the island, then they can do that without the need for a charge in order to complete the journey so it does make good fiscal sense to run an EV with home charging as all charging can be done at home at lower rates.

You really need to work harder at reading what was written down and understanding it. I never said EV's were not convenient in day-to-day use, if their range is suitable and charging ability was also suitable and affordable and if that is what a person wants to opt for then so be it. What I have said is however, that I didn't think that they should be forced upon people, but that they could be an option for people to choose if they suited their needs. For some reason, you seem to have taken the stance that anyone that does not agree with your viewpoint is automatically and irreversibly opposed to EVs as a means of transport, which plainly is not true. I have also pointed out just why I don't think that they are suitable for me personally and I have also pointed out the obvious real world risks that the they pose, but I would not stop you or anyone else from owning and running an EV, its your choice and I respect that. If you had actually read and understood what I posted, I clearly stated that the car was an electric Mini (Google says that it has a max charge rate of 11kW, not the 200kW that your Tesla is capable of) that was being used for the trip as not everyone has the luxury of having a choice of another car, or being able to afford the hiring of another car for the long distance travelling when needed, and I was the same example when discussing the Orkneys with George, and that was because he has one and frequently posts interesting logs of his journeys and how he charges the car on those trips. You not only overestimated the miles between the most northerly and southerly point of the UK, but you also got the time it would take for such a drive and still be within the legal speed limit, wrong. It is a widely accepted rule of thumb that it is reasonable to expect on a long trip that 50mph is a good yard stick to use for estimating the time of the trip, so if the distance was 1100 miles that you claimed, it would take 16 hours (in reality 1100 /50=22 hours). You also thought that for 16 hours of driving, you would need 5 to 6 comfort stops of 20 minutes each to refuel/charge and empty your bladder, thus making your journey time become at least 18 hours. So using your metric of every 2.67 hours driving (based on 6 breaks), a comfort break of 20 minutes would be needed, so accepting the 50mph average speed, that becomes 22/2.67=8.24 comfort breaks to be taken, adding another 2.72 hours making an approx total time of 18.72 hours to complete a trip that is essentially John 0' Groats to Land's End. I did also however, for the sake of keeping the total time to a minimum, say that I had assumed 2 drivers per car to keep driver fatigue at bay. I did however enjoy the thought of the passenger seat having an optional toilet built in and had a good laugh at that.

I think you may be right on that, I seem recall George posted about that a while ago, but that would still be dependent on suitable sailing weather conditions?

What are you on about, it is out of context completely. An older mini electric like Ootohere's fully charged could go from one side to the other on Orkney 4 times before needing to be recharged, The same reason as many airfields now run electric vehicles for many of their operational vehicles and when the airfield closes at the end of the day, put them on charge, and they are ready to go again next morning. The UK is 897 miles from top to bottom, and averaging 50mph is 18 hours driving non-stop. Try and do that trip in a new Mini Electric with theoretical range of 250 miles, would require 3.6 charges to complete the journey and each charge, using an 11Kw charger would be taking around 3.5 hours so that is 3.6 x 3.5 =12.6 hours total charging time, on top of the 18 hours making a total of 30.6 hours, even with 2 drivers means a 15.3 hour each to complete the trip. My diesel car would be able to do that trip in under 18.5 hours including a stop for refuelling and with 2 drivers would mean each driver would be driving for 9.25 hours, which of course could be split up into small periods, but the trip would be almost non-stop.

True, but somehow I doubt that is the case in Orkney, being it is a small island and that getting a car to or from the island requires a ferry which may or may not be operational according to the tides and weather, so most EVs would be mainly used on the island. Correct, nobody is always right, either 😉 Very true and I have said that EV's are ideal for a lot of people who are doing that sort of thing as when paired with the ability of home charging, fully maximises the advantages of having an EV until they find a way of taking that advantage of low running costs away, which I expect they are already coming up with a cunning plan to make up for lost revenue from liquid fuel duty.

What they actually have ferries . Well now, when you came out with the statement that there are more EV cars on the Islands per population, it peeked my interest a bit so I looked at the island in more detail and its very obvious that the houses there have almost all, got off-road parking, (a fact confirmed using Google Earth) lending itself to home charging, add in the fact that you are always going about the surplus power that Scotland produces, and the sheer compactness of the islands means that with a full battery even your Mini should be able to cross from one side of Orkney to the other 4 times before needing a charge. So I'm guessing that it makes logical sense to use EV's there if you have an abundance of cheap power, plenty of off-road parking to be able to charge at home at without worries and no need to worry about liquid fuel being in short supply if the rough seas prevent ships/ferries from making the crossing from the mainland bringing fresh supplies at times. As to servicing and repairs, all everyone talks about how little maintenance EVs need and how reliable they are as there are less moving parts etc, and it would seem judging be peoples comments and the YouTubers, that most people up there in Scotland seem to use a lot of mobile EV service people who travel around and make these trips, staying overnight in B&Bs, hotels etc between customers, so it was really a matter of joining up the dots to understand why there is a greater EV ownership on the islands.

@RootedI expect that many Islanders seldom leave the island. Whereas down this area some people travel daily from Kent over 100 miles to work and back where my son works, Orkney is only 25 miles coast to coast.

Now come on, when have you ever known or heard a politician admit that they got anything wrong, the closest they get to it they always have some flowery way of phrasing it so it appear as if they passing the buck to a fall guy, some faceless bureaucrat or similar is normally their patsy. 😆

I'm not surprised at the Orkneys given the small size of the islands, the distances really lend themselves to BEV's and the abundance of renewable power generation available.