My comment was aimed at the ever increasing "it's someone elses fault/problem" that seems to be endemic now a days when some one has an accident. "It was icy", "hit a patch of mud", "skidded on tree sap", " the road is dangerous" etc etc. If there are things that can be done to a road that increases the ability of the driver to judge what is going on then fine....

So that *IS* making it safer to drive along

No it's giving the driver the choice to drive safer. Doesn't make the road safer. I'll drive along a road at a speed I feel safe and in-control based on the conditions, any thing the aids my driving makes "ME THE DRIVER" a safer driver, not the road less dangerous.

No it's giving the driver the choice to drive safer. Doesn't make the road safer. I'll drive along a road at a speed I feel safe and in-control based on the conditions, any thing the aids my driving makes "ME THE DRIVER" a safer driver, not the road less dangerous.

Agreed, People kill people, not dangerous roads....How ever you drive, it's still the same road

No it's giving the driver the choice to drive safer. Doesn't make the road safer.

Of course it does.

If you don't know about hidden hazards then you can't drive accordingly , so informing you of them make the *road* safer. Whether you then choose to ignore them or not makes your *driving* safer.

By your reasoning , I could put land mines in a road and it wouldn't make it dangerous

By your reasoning , I could put land mines in a road and it wouldn't make it dangerous

Suitably signed, of course...

:popcorn:

Of

By your reasoning , I could put land mines in a road and it wouldn't make it dangerous

Thats doesn't really fall within the realms of the typical british road does it ? A meteor could hit the earth..... does that make the road dangerous ?

Macclesfield and Buxton - two places to avoid entirely IMHO.

Says someone who lives in Wigan.:P:rofl:

Actually, the Cat & Fiddle road is the best signed road I know of - you do have to be pushing the envelope for it to become a dangerous road. One of the reasons for the motorcycle injury rate is that there is an unusual geometery to a lot of the bends on the C&F road, in which they actually tighten on the latter part of the bend. A lot of riders don't accomodate for this and cannot shave the speed off if they're already on or near the limit.

Incidentally, I've driven it hundreds of times and know every bend on it - there are very few "tricky" places on it. The A54 which is nearby where that goes over the hills is far more dangerous IMHO.

Actually, the Cat & Fiddle road is the best signed road I know of - you do have to be pushing the envelope for it to become a dangerous road. One of the reasons for the motorcycle injury rate is that there is an unusual geometery to a lot of the bends on the C&F road, in which they actually tighten on the latter part of the bend. A lot of riders don't accomodate for this and cannot shave the speed off if they're already on or near the limit.

Incidentally, I've driven it hundreds of times and know every bend on it - there are very few "tricky" places on it. The A54 which is nearby where that goes over the hills is far more dangerous IMHO.

Sorry.........the A54 is no more dangerous than the C&F nor any more dangerous that my Back street..................People make roads Dangerous. Drive accordingly and all will be safe.

people do make roads dangerous with bad driving but what Dr Z is saying is that careful road design can and does reduce the risk of injury.

Signposts, trees, and other "furniture" can make a road more dangerous as well as less dangerous.

Sorry.........the A54 is no more dangerous than the C&F nor any more dangerous that my Back street..................People make roads Dangerous. Drive accordingly and all will be safe.

If I may reword what I said, I meant to say that in terms of the character of the road the average driver is far more likely to make a mistake which results in an accident on the A54 than on the A537.

people do make roads dangerous with bad driving but what Dr Z is saying is that careful road design can and does reduce the risk of injury.

Signposts, trees, and other "furniture" can make a road more dangerous as well as less dangerous.

Again I have to disagree, If you have a road with hairpin bends, Blind corners, Brows of hills, no road signs or " furniture " and you drive accordingly it is no more dangerous than a dead straight road sigh posted up to the Hilt......People make roads Dangerous.................Don't drive beyond the limits If it's not safe to overtake then don't do it, if it's not safe to drive fast then don't drive fast............It's ****s on the roads that make them dangerous.....

Again I have to disagree, If you have a road with hairpin bends, Blind corners, Brows of hills, no road signs or " furniture " and you drive accordingly it is no more dangerous than a dead straight road sigh posted up to the Hilt......People make roads Dangerous.................Don't drive beyond the limits If it's not safe to overtake then don't do it, if it's not safe to drive fast then don't drive fast............It's ****s on the roads that make them dangerous.....

excellent, well what i will do is hide round the corner from your house and just as you leave for work i will pour 15l of used engine oil on to the first roundabout you will encounter. when you crash whose fault will it be mine or yours?

Again I have to disagree, If you have a road with hairpin bends, Blind corners, Brows of hills, no road signs or " furniture " and you drive accordingly

So you have to adjust your driving *because* of these features of the road.

That clearly shows that all roads are *not* equal and some are more dangerous than others , irrespective of what you do while driving on them.

This tread could go on forever....And if I slip on some "slippy " stuff "Who will I blame "..Me.........I should have driven more carfully incase someone had made the road " Slippy "....

If I may reword what I said, I meant to say that in terms of the character of the road the average driver is far more likely to make a mistake which results in an accident on the A54 than on the A537.

Sorry can't change you mind ................................

Yashicamat, you're right about the tightening up of the bends. I went down there at a slow-medium steady pace in a 2001 Polo running on Michelin Energy tyres on a cool wet day...went into bends perfectly happily but by the exit of the bend was drifting all 4 wheels. In comparsion the Snake Pass is the opposite, most of the bends there look tighter than they really are.