Thoughts on why we have a culture of benefits in the UK

[robmawer]

Rob, you appear to be the stereotypical northerner.

However, I am in fact a middle-class Southerner...

Rob.

[pixi]

:wrthless:

[expostmanpat]

I cant read my balance sheet today, it got stolen by one of those working class mail delivery people.

Got to have something to hang on the nail in the back of the out house door when we can't afford a copy of the daily Mirror

[robmawer]

:wrthless:

A typical middle-class Southerner, yesterday.

Rob.

[pixi]

Commendable, but it's not you is it? Or is it?

[Goochie]

Thats Aled from the Chris Moyles show.

[cheezemonkhai]

A typical middle class southerner in London sits in ones communal private garden in the square that the houses form.

In that garden, which is right by the city, they sip champers and eat freshly cooked bread with olive oil and balsamic vinegar.

[expostmanpat]

Northern worker yesterday, this guy is only 32, but notice the smile

Sorry no Ferret

[robmawer]

this guy is only 32, but notice the smile

Rob.

[Fluffy Bunny]

Northern worker yesterday, this guy is only 32, but notice the smile

Sorry no Ferret

He'll have eaten the ferret to survive the harsh northern winters.

[pixi]

That's what cheap northern ale does to you, poor bloke.

[cheezemonkhai]

Hurray for southern winters

and champers

[Fluffy Bunny]

Hurray for southern winters

and champers

And being far, far away from Scotland:thumbup:

[cheezemonkhai]

And being far, far away from Scotland:thumbup:

Where....

Is that the place were that Rab C Nesbit guy lives and we keep them on the other side of the wall or is that China, I forget.

[expostmanpat]

On a similar note thank **** for Watford Gap

[David 8]

Thats Aled from the Chris Moyles show.

What you mean you don't know who the other fella is ???

You only know the gay one :eek:

[Fluffy Bunny]

Can you get gap insurance for the Watford Gap?

[cheezemonkhai]

On a similar note thank **** for Watford Gap

Totally, I mean when people come down from the M1, they need somewhere to stop off and get rid of their bodily waste.

Couldn't have it contaminating inside the M25 now

[expostmanpat]

Totally, I mean when people come down from the M1, they need somewhere to stop off and get rid of their bodily waste.

After all there is that much effluent here allready we really can't do with anymore

Well said that man

[cheezemonkhai]

Well said that man

to be fair i was kind of thinking it was full of **** anyway, but thought I'd let you have that one

[apd007]

.....

1) Maggi's changes and those of successive governments helped make everyone out for number one only and put in a culture of "you're nothing if you're not rich".

This has lead to people having to have everything even if they can't afford it and being uphappy unless they have it all.

No longer is it a case of start small and buy things when you can afford them, you must have it all and have it now.

People don't believe they should be doing low paid manual labour and factory jobs because they are better than that.

Can't agree with that, if you're out for yourself then surely you'll do anything to improve your lot. (Problem is this leads to some people nicking stuff )

This means that you get what we are now seeing, where we are getting people in from the rest of the EU to come and pick our fruit and veg at £7 an hour and the UK workers think this is below them.

The fact that they now consider themselves "middle class" means that they shouldn't have to work in this way to obtain the goods they "need" and so if they are not handed a job paying enough to do this on a plate why work.

I'm not sure you can relate to class, however, there is certainly a large group of people who seem to think they leave school and walk into a job paying £30K a year and would rather be on the dole than work for less. Unfortunately manufacturing in this country has died, there are many reasons for that, some government, some other.

So really, the problem boils down to personal greed being promoted as a good thing....

But is personal greed a bad thing? I don't know your full personal circumstances and I'm not going to guess but I'm willing to bet you spend the vast majority of your wages on yourself/yourself and partner.

If all the people who could work, but are instead sat on their **** had a sense of worth and achievement from doing the jobs they may be best suited to, eg manual, then maybe they would have a desire to actually get a job and say "I work at the farm/factory and I enjoy my job".

Sure they nay not be loaded, but I bet if they had enough money to get what they needed and some personal feeling that what they did was essential to the country then we wouldn't be in the same mess we now are.

I agree with the general sentiments, i.e. if people actually took pride in their work it might just lead to them taking pride in their country. However, some of the last paragraph seems to read a bit like Victorian England whereby the lower classes knew their place and didn't aspire any higher. The need to improve is what drives many people, why should I settle for what I have now?

Oh and those that were still too lazy, could be used to generate electric.

Hmmm, has merit, reduce CO2 (not that it actually matters to the environment), reduce the amount of money paid out every month to scroungers, frees up some housing....... I think though we should start with ALL politicians, there is enough hot air there to power the country for a few years.

As has been mentioned before when Brisky dons the serious hat and talks about society, there are a number of young people who have no ambition at all, and I can't work out why.

['daiking']

Unfortunately, the thread's degenerated in typical briskoda fashion

I know I'm a bit late but my first answer would have been,

Why?

I think we've been screwed over by successive governments, legions of financiers and also each other. Here are a few reasons:

The dilution of the value of labour via minimum wage and de-restriction of workers post-Eastern Bloc accession to the EU

Comparatively generous means-tested welfare system, open to systematic abuse

Institutionalised fecklessness - teenage pregnancies, long term unemployed, lifestyle incapacity ailments

A tax system that rewards the rich and penalises those who must work

Career politicians

Social engineering

Ineffectual grass-roots enforcement of law and order

A financial system intent on consigning the population to debt slavery

Under development of productive industrial endeavour

Business environment hamstrung by rampant chronic short term-ism

A national psyche that has seemingly developed into an obsession for money best illustrated by foaming at the mouth histrionics over piles of brick

Planning law

Not a pretty list is it?

When you look at that, why bother working, earning, paying taxes, obeying the law? Do naff all and the state will provide and it still allows you oppos to beg/borrow/steal and work cash-in-hand on the black market.

Now who do you really think are the stupid ones? (Hint: it’s not them)

[cjb]

This is probably going to go a bit mini rant, so if the mods think it's better in OT feel free to move it.

Anyway, I was having a think the other night while out at some peoples houses and have the following thoughts on why we have a large number of perfectly able bodied people unwilling to work and happy to claim a living from those who do work.

1) Maggi's changes and those of successive governments helped make everyone out for number one only and put in a culture of "you're nothing if you're not rich".

This has lead to people having to have everything even if they can't afford it and being uphappy unless they have it all.

No longer is it a case of start small and buy things when you can afford them, you must have it all and have it now.

Couldn't agree more. I despise what the Thatcher government did: along with all that they financed the boom by selling shares in publicly-owned companies. It's criminal.

2) The middle classes.

You can go at me on this one if you like, but the upper class know that in order for them to be able to do sweet FA and enjoy their money they need to pay a number of "workers" to do their work for them.

Some in the middle classes look down on the working classes as if they are scum and not worthy of existing. They make out that doing these sort of jobs make a person a nothing and seem to fail to realise that every cog in a geared system is important and without the working classes the country would fall apart in next to no time.

Now 2 makes me realise that because of the aspirations set out by 1 combined with the thought now polluting peoples minds that being working class is lower than low we are in this situation.

People don't want to be working class and think they should have everything.

People don't believe they should be doing low paid manual labour and factory jobs because they are better than that.

This means that you get what we are now seeing, where we are getting people in from the rest of the EU to come and pick our fruit and veg at £7 an hour and the UK workers think this is below them.

The fact that they now consider themselves "middle class" means that they shouldn't have to work in this way to obtain the goods they "need" and so if they are not handed a job paying enough to do this on a plate why work.

So really, the problem boils down to personal greed being promoted as a good thing, and the middle classes treating the working classes and others as scum.

If all the people who could work, but are instead sat on their **** had a sense of worth and achievement from doing the jobs they may be best suited to, eg manual, then maybe they would have a desire to actually get a job and say "I work at the farm/factory and I enjoy my job".

Sure they nay not be loaded, but I bet if they had enough money to get what they needed and some personal feeling that what they did was essential to the country then we wouldn't be in the same mess we now are.

Oh and those that were still too lazy, could be used to generate electric.

Discuss

Wow. That's a long one, but there's a lot of sense there.

Add to it the obsession with a university education: even for those not academically gifted who might be better with a vocational education. I'm not rying to have a go at people that have got degrees: I'm just suggesting it isn't the answer for everyone.

I hate how manual workers are looked down upon: One of my nearby neighbours is a building labourer: he's the only person we've had in the (rented) house opposite in 15 years to have the right attitude so that his family are paying *in* to the state instead of taking out, and gets a lot of respect because of it. He gets tax credits, and they're well deserved.

When I get all ranty on this kind of subject, I seem to jump from left-wing to right wing views: I believe in the welfare state, but I hate scroungers. I start thinking along the lines of chain gangs for prisoners (building roads, repairing public buildings etc- 'free' labour) and no cash handouts for social security (instead provide food vouchers, prepay a fair amount of household energy, pay rent, provide free bus pass for jobseekers etc).

Then I think I'm sounding a bit like a grumpy old fascist.

[cheezemonkhai]

no a fascist wouldn't give them anything.

[auroan]

Unfortunately, the thread's degenerated in typical briskoda fashion :rolleyes:Now

Good poing daiking

Ok guys/gals let keep this on topic as it is in the road side hotel. If not we can move it to off-topic chit chat.

Cheers