Hi I'm new on here & need some advice.

I currently own a Toyota Celica 140BHP and looking to replace it early next year. However I can't think what to replace it with. The options are:

Petrol -

New shape Octavia VRS

New shape Focus ST-2

Diesel -

NEW shape Octavia VRS

New shape Focus or Mondeo ST

(whatever I get I aim to remap it)

I need something that is FUN to drive, but at the same time more practical than my Celica. It also needs to be something people around the 6ft area can drive (the mrs!), not be too big and return good fuel mileage.

I have to drive an 80 mile round trip to work, so I need whatever I get to have good mileage. My Celica does 34 miles combined, so needs to match or better it.

I'm looking more at the Octavia (though not sure the mrs is keen on the looks), so I need your opinions on the car. What's it like? How handy is the equipment? Running costs? Servicing costs? etc

Thanks for your help

Focus ST-2, as long as you can cope with the economy

If not, then the petrol Octavia vRS

I looked at an ST-2 but unfortunatly Ford doesnt seem to think an estate should be offered so I took my money to Skoda and havent looked back.

ST's are very nice hatch backs - handling is superb as is the braking and the engine is a gem (and probably the best single feature of the car).

Overall though I think if I was buying now and wanted a hatchback, I'd still go for the VRS. More equipment, better built, better interior materials and just a nicer, plusher environment to be in imo.

Economy is also a BIG downside in ST ownership. Im still achieving 33+mpg in my VRS - even with all the mods.

yea ST is a very nice car but i too was put off by lack of estate and the fuel consumption is poor,

by the sounds of things the petrol octavia vRS would suite you to a T, similar fuel consumption to what your currently getting

As for the Mondeo ST TDCi and vRS Diesel, both superb cars, deffinatly worth the remap though. The New Shape Mondeo 2.2 TDCi Titanium X is also a good buy if you can find one for the right money

Id stay clear of the focus TDCi, at 136bhp for the 2.0 TDCi its an under powered expensive buy in my opinion, not sure at second hand prices but new your looking at vRS money for one if you match them up with the same equipment

I have the diesel vrs and find the performance and fuel consumption very good. I also prefered the way it drove to the petrol (more like my Mk1 VRS- not quite as refined as the new petrol VRS). Also chipping the diesel vrs can get you around 200bhp which must

be a lot of fun (mine is currently standard). Fuel economy is around 45-48mpg on mixed roads on my 10mile run to work and I have got 55mpg on a long motorway run. There was a test in a magazine sometime last year with the mondeo ST and VRS diesels going head to head. The octavia beat it hands down on performance although if you need rear passenger space I would imagine the mondeo would be better. The best advice would be to test drive all the options to see which you prefer as we all have our own taste and ideas on what we want in a car.

Thanks for all the advice.

I don't need an estate, so don't need to worry about that. However the Focus on average(going by ST drivers) does something in the mid 20's for fuel ecconomy, when is documented for 30mpg. The VRS is 35mpg documented.

I've looked at Celtic tunning for the remapping & they produces the following figures. As you'll see the VRS in both petrol & diesel, comes out very well. The petrol VRS is only -5 BHP & -14 Torque less than the ST! So performance wise they are very close. Therefore it's down to looks, insurance & equipment I guess.

vrs petrol - as standard, insurance group 15 (I think)

2.0 FSi Turbo BHP-197 Tor-207 New BHP-265 New Tor-274

focus petrol - as standard, insurance group 17

ST 2.5T BHP-221 Tor-236 New BHP-270 New Tor-288

*vrs diesel - as standard, insurance group 14

*2.0 FSi Turbo BHP-197 Tor-207 New BHP-265 New Tor-278

focus diesel - as standard, insurance group 10

2.0 TDCi BHP-134 Tor-251 New BHP-170 New Tor-318

Mondeo ST diesel - as standard, insurance group 12

2.2 TDCi BHP-152 Tor-265 New BHP-195 New Tor-345

*EDIT - wrong details posted, corrected below.

vrs diesel

2.0 TDi Turbo BHP-168 Tor-258 New BHP-210 New Tor-325

Edited 2 September, 200817 yr by edwardio

Thanks for all the advice.

I don't need an estate, so don't need to worry about that. However the Focus on average(going by ST drivers) does something in the mid 20's for fuel ecconomy, when is documented for 30mpg. The VRS is 35mpg documented.

I've looked at Celtic tunning for the remapping & they produces the following figures. As you'll see the VRS in both petrol & diesel, comes out very well. The petrol VRS is only -5 BHP & -14 Torque less than the ST! So performance wise they are very close. Therefore it's down to looks, insurance & equipment I guess.

vrs petrol - as standard, insurance group 15 (I think)

2.0 FSi Turbo BHP-197 Tor-207 New BHP-265 New Tor-274

focus petrol - as standard, insurance group 17

ST 2.5T BHP-221 Tor-236 New BHP-270 New Tor-288

vrs diesel - as standard, insurance group 14

2.0 FSi Turbo BHP-197 Tor-207 New BHP-265 New Tor-278

focus diesel - as standard, insurance group 10

2.0 TDCi BHP-134 Tor-251 New BHP-170 New Tor-318

Mondeo ST diesel - as standard, insurance group 12

2.2 TDCi BHP-152 Tor-265 New BHP-195 New Tor-345

If you are making a decision semi based on Celtics remap gain claims then DONT. From personal experience they are some way off the quoted amounts, however they arent a bad company to deal with on the whole. Plus some of the above figures are wrong anyway - TDI VRS is actually TFSi figures.

Out of that list, Petrol VRS, maybe a test drive in a CR TDI as I havent test driven one yet or the 2.2 Mondeo for a diesel.

Overall though I still way prefer the interior quality and design of the VAG cars and everyone seems to have a FORD! :P

Thanks for pointing the mistake out. I copied the wrong line, the VRS diesel details given is as below:

vrs diesel

2.0 TDi Turbo BHP-168 Tor-258 New BHP-210 New Tor-325

Go for the Octy diesel more MPG and lower RFL

I'd also consider:

Golf GTi

Golf GTi ED30

Golf TDi 170

I went from a 140bhp Celica to a 2003 Octavia vRS and the vRS out performed the Celica in every way, except in dealer customer service and reliability, although I hasten to add I only had 1 very minor problem with my vRS (but not a single one with the Celica).

The vRS power was a welcome change after the rather gutless Celica, especially the extra torque. I also found the brakes far better in the vRS.

Space, including the boot was far better in the vRS and a much nicer drive all-round.

I also found that the vRS was more economical than the Celica, but then I'm rarely in a hurry and the only time the car got worked hard was at the 'Ring'.

I'm sure the newer vRS is even better.

Cheers

Lance

i've got a 08 vrs dsg..had all sorts in the past, mercs, bmw's even a toyota mr2..this is without a doubt the best car i've ever had..looks, size, space, performance, everything..it's my 3rd skoda on the trot...the only other car i had more than once is bmw, and they were several years apart..if you fancy a vw, check the equivalent skoda..better and cheaper !!

Thanks again everyone. You're all giving fair advice.

I know the ST looks chavvy, but I think it looks good and has a nice interior.

The VRS would suit my needs better, but I not sure on the look and its a bit bigger than what I really want. However the general costs are better.

Oh its going to take me a while to decide!!

Thanks again everyone. You're all giving fair advice.

I know the ST looks chavvy, but I think it looks good and has a nice interior.

The VRS would suit my needs better, but I not sure on the look and its a bit bigger than what I really want. However the general costs are better.

Oh its going to take me a while to decide!!

You have a tough decision - they are both nice cars but bar the seats I really dont rate the ST interior (with its scratchy plastics) but if you prefer it then thats what counts.

Lee

If I went for the VRS. What would you suggest. Petrol or Diesel?

petrol

Well this is a point of some 'discussion' on here previously:rofl:

I test drove both properly before deciding and I bought the TFSi.

Even excluding the fact I dont do huge mileage (10k per annum) I thought the petrol WAS quicker whereas the diesel, with its slab of low down torque) just FELT quick. I found the diesel less capable of putting down the torque also, due mainly to how it came in. The TFSi has plenty enough torque but it spreads it over a nicer rev range imo.

Dont get me wrong however, I think the VRS TDi is a really fantastic car (especially with a 300lb/ft remap like a friends one has) but for me I wanted to have the fun to 7,000rpm not just 4 and a bit rpm in each gear.

Its the old petrol v's diesel arguement isnt it?!

Had I wanted a car to do 15k a year in then I'd have plumped for the VRS TDI and been more than happy with it.

Lee

Are Fast Fords still thief magnets? Mind you,I think the word is out on Skoda vRS models now:(

Realistically,I'd always prefer having a more powerful car in the first instance than fettling with them after.Thats just me though

Another thing which I like about the VRS v's fast ford debate is the rarity value. North London doesnt seem to have too many VRS's; particularly estate models. I just spent my lunch hour in the local Beefeater watching people looking at the VRS in the car park and ignoring the ST (fully stripped!) next to it. That included a couple of chavs, a group of three teenage lads and a girl and a couple of builders getting into their van opposite

I travel about 20k a year to and from work, then add normal travel on top. I also have a 1.25 Fiesta (about 50mpg compared to my 34mpg Celica) that I mainly use for work, so the mileage for the Celica replacement won't have to do the work mileage, though if it returns as good mileage I could be tempted.

I've never had a diesel, so I have no idea what they're like. A friend says I should go for the diesel, but I do like my power throughout the rev range. Plus the remap should do a nice job!!

The lower insurance on the petrol VRS is better that then ST, which is a good thing. I am heading to the VRS, I must admit.

Performance wise there isn't much between the diesel and petrol vRS.

The diesel one offers better economy but the petrol one sounds nicer and is a slightly more sporty engaging drive.

Why don't you just try both and then buy whichever one makes you (and your wallet) smile the most?

The trouble is, if you get a test drive in a vRS, then you will not want to wait until the

end of the year

Thanks so much everyone for your views and advice. I think I'm going to have to sit back for a while and have a good think about it.

Thanks again & I hope all your cars keep you happy drivers.

From experience you'll enjoy the build quality, comfort and drive on a Skoda over the Ford.

However as everybody's different, just make sure you get a drive in the exact model you're interested in with each marque