Multiple issues, and fault code readers

[Jigger72]

I couldn't say to be honest as I'm no expert but it does sound like the garage has done something they shouldn't have and should be trying to do something to sort it. Have you checked that all your pipes are connected and the Throttle Body is done up tight with the proper gasket on the manifold side? I'd deffo be going back to the garage though.

Try asking on here if anyone has VAGCOM near you and offer beer money to pop over and give it a scan.

One other thing to try is disconnecting the MAF maybe? When I did this to test if the car ran better on my way home it was fine but when I reconnected it the revs went haywire and kept stalling but it did reset itself after about 10 minutes. Try it and see if it starts and idles OK with it disconnected. You won't damage the car unless you go racing for hours and hours without it.

Sorry I can't be anymore help :(

[Interphase]

No, no problem - thank you for pitching in I'm completely new to these cars and have little idea of how they fit together.

On the day, my mechanic simply used the Solus kit to read the faults, and reprogram the throttle body using the diagnostic kit's built in parameters - this cleared the fault and restored the smooth running. We didn't have to remove anything and the car was running fine for the fortnight or so beforehand, so there shouldn't be problems on that front. Hopefully he'll be nipping around later to do a rescan and see if any new codes have popped up in the meantime, and give me a hand to go over the suggestions we have here. The MAF sensor sounds interesting as I gathered that had been replaced, but I'm not sure if it was with an official/decent quality one.

In the meantime I'm going to nip out and look over the pipes in a mo just in case one has slipped off or split spectacularly with no warning. If all else fails I may have explore the VAGCOM route athough I don't think there's anyone local to here that has it.

Cheers for the advice

[Interphase]

Another update:

Just had my friendly local mechanic round and this time the fault codes showed that something was sticking in the throttle body, and also flagged the power supply as a possible cause. He's run the same reset and it's running smoothly again, but it does suggest, along with the previous reading for angle sensor 2, that the throttle body itself might be getting coked up or starting to fail. He reckons that the power supply fault often shows as a result of the first one coming up and clears when the first fault does, so in itself it might not mean much. He said that once it had run badly for a while he managed to power through it and get some semblance of running before reprogramming it There don't seem to be any leaks as the engine sits at 700rpm on the nose again now and the needle doesn't fluctuate even slightly.

The plan seems to be to keep an eye on it, and if it plays up again to get it in, clean the throttle body and double check all the pipes and associated sensors. My concern now is that it may go when I'm out and about, and the next proper trip is to Derbyshire to run a residential for the local youth service. If there are any friendly VAGCOM owning Derbyshire folks out and about and it goes pearshaped while I'm there, would it be possible to shout you for help?

[Jigger72]

Sounds like you should clean the Throttle Body yourself anyway before the problem comes back. I did it this weekend and it's a 20 minute job. Do a search on here.

All you need is some carb cleaner, a cloth/rag and maybe some cotton buds, 5mm allen key and a new TB/manifold gasket. Get the gasket from Skoda for £1.86.

One thing to note is the throttle is Drive by Wire so the valve is stuck closed. I turned the key in the ignition and put a brick on the loud pedal to open it. You can then get in under and around it and do a proper clean. Good luck and glad it's running OK now anyway

[Interphase]

Well, after a few resets and various fiddles, it seems that the throttle body is indeed goosed. The error codes all relate to the angle sensor and motor, and it's now failing again as little as 5min after a reset. The inside of the throttle body is spotless so it looks like it's been cleaned in the past. That's probably going to be the sharp end of £500 that I'll have to find :|

Gets worse too - I had a new cambelt kit and waterpump as part of the sale, but whilst my mechanic was looking over it today he suggested that it looked far too old to have been replaced three weeks/500 miles ago. It's faded, looks mildly stretched with tiny surface abrasions, there are a series of impressions on the outside from the teeth and it's also pretty polished with almost all of the writing and markings worn off. He had a fresh belt for a similar engine in the workshop, and the difference betwwen the two was immediately obvious.

I've just spoken to the garage that did it and they say that they definitely did, but if it did fail then it wouldn't be covered under warranty because it wasn't me that paid for the work to be done. They also said they'd be happy to inspect it to see why it looked so worn. I don't doubt the person I brought it off as I have good reason to believe he's a straight up and sincere guy, but proving that the job has been done could get tricky.

Never straightforward, is it?

EDIT: I've added a few pics - what do you all think? Should the belt itself be out of alignment with the sprocket like that?

Edited 22 October, 2008 by Interphase

[Jigger72]

Hi again. What kind of warranty was it? If you have a warranty and you have a receipt or a stamp to say you've had the cambelt service done then it should be covered by the warranty. Can't think what he means by saying if you haven't paid for the work it isn't covered :confused: Most warranties simply insist that the car has been serviced according to manufacturer schedule so if it was done at the time you bought the car it should be covered regardless of who paid for the work.

I suppose it depends exactly what the warranty covers but I thought they were all pretty standard??? It all sounds a bit dodgy to me. Anyway, isn't the angle sensor and motor covered by the warranty as well as it's gone after you bought the car?

Can you take it to a Skoda dealer and ask them to have a look and then go back to the original garage you bought it from with ammo from Skoda?

Hope you get this sorted. There's nothing worse than having a new motor going tits-up on you :thumbdwn:

[Interphase]

Unfortunately this was a private sale, but the seller was happy to get the cambelt done as soon as he realised that the cambelt interval his local dealer had stated wasn't correct. This was done before I took delivery of the car, so the contract was between him and the independent garage who were asked to carry out the work. The book wasn't stamped at that point, but the mileage was noted down to allow the next change to be calculated.

I think the garages suggestion is that the warranty exists between them and the original owner, and now ownership has transferred I have no comeback should the belt fail. My contention is that if the work hasn't been done as the garage claim (which is still open to question) then I may have no ability to argue with them directly, but it would mean that they've placed the seller in breach of his contract of sale with me due to a broken contract term through no fault of his own. I'm sure that if this was the case, he'd be appalled and would have very strong words indeed.

What do you think about the images of the belt? I'm not experienced enough with this engine to know if that doe slook like it's three weeks old.

Edited 22 October, 2008 by Interphase

[ap0gee1978]

The outside of the belt isn't cracked or anything, and you'd expect the surface to get polished / abraded fairly quickly from the rollers it runs over. I don't know if you want to check the Honest John forum for guidance regarding the warranty, as the way I see it, there are several issues here:

Do you have anything in writing from the seller saying he'd get the cambelt done? If so, and it hasn't been done, then you have a case for misrepresentation, and might do well to contact a solicitor. (This won't apply if the car was 'sold as seen'.)

Subject to the above, do you have a receipt for the work? If so, and it hasn't been done, then the garage has a case to answer under the Sale of Goods and Services Act. If that were the case, it would effectively be fraud, so I can't imagine it would matter whether it was you, the previous owner, the Pope or Paddington Bear who approached the garage...

But I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here! Another thing to check is the condition of the tensioner pulley, which ought to be visible with the cover off. I don't know how dirty they get in use, but is hould have been replaced with the cambelt, so a grubby one definitely wouldn't be new.

All-in-all, though, I hope it's just gremlins in the TB - I'd hate for it to get messy...

[Interphase]

All good advice, cheers.

The surface of the belt doesn't have cracks running across its width, but when seen close it does have very fine hairline cracks on the surface, of the sort you see when rubber has been repeatedly stretched. Checking the tensioner is a very good idea, and I'll do that later - I would imagine the visible metal on the outer face should still be very shiny? Does the positioning look correct to you, with the belt appearing to be offset to the left of the sprocket?

It was a term of the contract between myself and the seller that the belt and waterpump would be replaced, and we both have a set of emails confirming those terms. He dropped the car off at the garage and collected it later with the assurance that it had been done, so if it hasn't then they've defrauded him and not me. This would however place him in breach of his contract with me, but not through his own fault. I spoke to him last night and he's said that the garage was recommended to him, and if it turns out the work hasn't been done then he'll be furious and I should get straight back in touch so we can sort it out.

As for the throttle body, it looks like there's no choice but to replace it. The same codes are flagged every time without fail and it's always down to the stepper motor or internal electrics. My mechanic has seen a wave of similar issues recently on 1.8t Passats and Golfs resulting in dead TBs and can't see any common ground between them. The parts place he uses for VWs seem to be doing a good trade in them too recently. Everything else seems to work perfectly when the current TB is reset, with it idling smoothly, picking up well and going like stink, so I'm hoping that's the limit of the problems.

Thanks for the feedback and food for though, this is something I'm understandably keen to sort out as I'm enjoying the car too much to face the thought of serious problems!

[Interphase]

Just a quick one folks - the replacement TB is arriving today so I'll be taking a look at the belt issue too. When I had a quick prod around earlier on, I found the timing belt cover seems to foul various pipes to the left and it doesn't seem possible to remove it with the engine in situ. I'd like to check the tensioner as asuggested by ap0gee before deciding whether or not to confront the garage and I'm not sure if this'll be possible.. any ideas?

[Interphase]

Motor is back, with a secondhand throttle body, and appears to be working perfectly. It seems that the angle sensor was giving wonky and intermittent readings, and that was leading the butterfly flap to be in a position other than the ECU thought it was. There have been a couple of times where the turbo seemed a bit flat when pulling away in first but I think I'm imagining it because I'm treating it carefully until I'm sure of it - someone mentioned the ECU automatically shifting between 'sensible' and 'get down and boogie' modes, is that correct?

I jus tneed to speak to the garage about the timing belt now because I'm still not convinced - anyone got any further ideas on how I could try to confirm or deny it for myself without the ability to pull the engine, and if the fact that the belt isn't perfectly aligned with the top sprocket is significant?

Cheers all!

[Interphase]

Fantastic :|

I've had about a week of good running after replacing the throttle body, and when I started it this morning, the same 'stutter, hunt and die' situation happened. This time around it died immediately and showed the battery light. The second time U tried it fluctuated between about a thousand and 300 revs and sounded very poorly before I turned it off out of sympathy. I tried it later on and this time it was bouncing between 1000 and 2000, and when I tried to hold the throttle to see if it'd stabilise the response would drop in time with the revs.

A search here showed that vacuum leaks can often be at fault, but I can't find any sign of those and the hoses were all replaced relatively recently. This type of hunting can't be down to the coilpacks can it? If it can, that'll change the way I approach the diagnostics.

I'm now at the point where I'm well and truly sick of this - it's been undriveable for half the time I've had it and I'm getting to the stage where I can't trust it anymore, a nightmare when it's essential for my job and for ferrying older member of the family around :(

[VRStu]

You really should see if somone local to you has VAG-COM. Might help if you updated your bio with your location. You've clearly spent some time effort and money getting this far and in truth are no further forward.

What exactly is the 'code' that your tame mechanic sees? It's difficult to help without too much info on what's happening.

[Interphase]

I think you're probably right. I'm in Leicester, but I don't think there's anyone close on here who has the kit - I'll sort my profile now.

The fault code that it reported before was solely related to the angle position sensor in the throttle body - I can't remember the precise one, but it stated that the values it was sending back were implausible. It looked as if the position signals it was sending out were skewed from the actual physical position of the sensor and that was screwing the airflow part of any calcuations. I'd be lucky to get a couple of miles before it died and lit up the dash, but since it was replaced I've done almost 300 without a glitch.. until today. Fortunately that fault hasn't reoccurred and the car has been running great with no sign of any warning lights and no limping.

From what I remember there was nothing logged in addition to that TB specific fault to explain the previous occurrance of this particular issue - outside of that, the sheet was clean. I haven't had a chance to the codes read again yet as this only happened this morning, so it may be reporting something new.

[VRStu]

How about a decent independant, somone will do a fault scan and have a chat with you for an hours labour.

[Interphase]

The guy who looked at it previously is a decent indepedant, and very well respected locally - he's the person that local garages send cars to when they don't have the time to work on them personally, and has looked after mine and the family's cars for quite a few years now. Given that he's very honest with us (he's handed cars back before with nothing more than a bill for a couple of quid for some silly part or another) I'm not sure I could find another similar mechanic where I'd be in a better position unless that person was a respected skoda specialist.

To be fair he did nail the original fault perfectly and managed to find a reconditioned and tested TB for a fraction of the price of a new one - we just assumed at the time (in the light of no other codes) that the random rough idle was down to the position of the valve being misread. He'd been in touch with Skoda and run through all of their suggestions too just in case he'd missed anything. It looks like whatever was happening to cause the idle issue wasn't leaving a trace in the fault log, and is still there despite appearing to have cleared up.

It's one of those situations where you just don't know what to do for the best.. other than avoiding main dealer diagnostics and being financially bent over the service desk..

[greg123]

A cheap hand held reader cannot scan all your VW systems. EOBD compliant scanners will get and clear your engine codes, but that's about it.

you need to start with a comprehensive service and inspection for the usual issues (throttle body clean and alignment, replace the troublesome pipes under the manifold/y connectors that leak) and provide us with a full scan of all fault codes after having them cleared and driving for a while and getting a re-scan to see what comes back.

If you get vag-com and scan, or go somewhere to have it done, post the results back and people should be able to help you further.

Greg.

Seems I spoke too soon with regards to my recently acquired Octy RS - so far I've identified the dodgy recirc flap motor and the possibly clogged and shorting rear wiper motor, but I was just driving home and the EPC and traction control lights came on without warning. After I'd dropped off my passenger and restarted the car, only the TCS light stayed on. I've also just been through the first tank of fuel and even driving it like a granny around town (upshifting at 2k and using 5th as much as possible) it only managed 270 miles before the fuel light came on which seems a bit mean.

I probably need to get a cheap fault code reader sharpish and try to work out what's happening before I start to spend money I don't have sorting things out. Does anyone know of any places in Leicestershire that sell those simple, cheap handheld ones? I'd rather not faff about with eBay, and I'm a bit worried about the warning light so I'd rather not hang around too long for online places to get back to me.

It's annoying how little niggles can get in the way of enjoying the car I've wanted to own for years. Sheesh.

[Interphase]

The throttle body has just been replaced and realigned, and the hoses that tend to split (including the one you mention) are all relatively new and were checked again at the same time the TB was replaced. I think you're both right about getting it run through VAG.COM though, just to check in case anything else has come up. The car is up for a full service in March (at which I assume they run a general scan and check?) but I might bring that forward. If I can get a read in the meantime I'll definitely post the results

[Interphase]

Found a freelance VAG trained guy locally who can run scans but haven't had a chance to get him in yet. Something very interesting has happened though and I think I may stumbled onto a possible cause.

I noticed the last two times it happened that the first attempt to start resulted in no turnover at all and an instant battery check light. The very next time (and all subsequent ones) it went into the stalling/hunting process. The fault code that came up was 'undocumented' on a non VAG specific reader but clearing it immediately took the car back to purring like a kitten and running fautlessly. This suggests to me that leaks aren't to blame, which is good because I couldn't find any

Could it be that something is causing an intermittent ground that sends the ECU into a tizz, which is why clearing the fault code fixes the problem? If so, what could be stopped from working electronically that would result in that sort of running?

VAG.COM comes next, if nothing becomes obvious.

[ap0gee1978]

As I've mentioned on here a lot recently (and forgive me if one of the places I've done it is this thread ), I had a dodgy connection on the negative terminal of my battery that caused all sorts of shenanigans. Normally, I'd get intermittent warning lights and sometimes loss of ASR, ABS and/or PAS until I'd restarted the car. Locking the car with the fob and immediately losing all power and tripping the alarm was an interesting one - just as well I'd not burned my bridges by de-locking or anything...! :eek:

All better now, though!

[Interphase]

Has to be worth checking out. The bloody thing died again this evening, and I had to get it 8 miles back in limp mode with it lurching all over the place and nearly stalling at every stop. Fine time to realise you can't really heel and toe with those pedals. This time it was the full monty - crap idle, ABS and EPC lights, the works. I'm going to have to try to get hold of that local VAG bloke tomorrow and see if he can make any sense of it before I've had enough.