Multiple issues, and fault code readers

[Interphase]

Seems I spoke too soon with regards to my recently acquired Octy RS - so far I've identified the dodgy recirc flap motor and the possibly clogged and shorting rear wiper motor, but I was just driving home and the EPC and traction control lights came on without warning. After I'd dropped off my passenger and restarted the car, only the TCS light stayed on. I've also just been through the first tank of fuel and even driving it like a granny around town (upshifting at 2k and using 5th as much as possible) it only managed 270 miles before the fuel light came on which seems a bit mean.

I probably need to get a cheap fault code reader sharpish and try to work out what's happening before I start to spend money I don't have sorting things out. Does anyone know of any places in Leicestershire that sell those simple, cheap handheld ones? I'd rather not faff about with eBay, and I'm a bit worried about the warning light so I'd rather not hang around too long for online places to get back to me.

It's annoying how little niggles can get in the way of enjoying the car I've wanted to own for years. Sheesh.

[VRStu]

Don't bother with a code reader get VAG-COM it'll pay in the long run.

[Interphase]

I was looking at that and it looks genuinely impressive, but unfortunately I really can't afford it after buying the car and bearing in mind the work that might need to be done. It's also questionable how much I'd be able to do with the results given limited means and technical knowledge. My thinking was that I could tackle the simple things it showed, and used the info to make sure I don't get taken for a ride when getting the more serious ones fixed.

Strangely enough the traction control light didn't come back on when I went out to the car later. It doesn't feel as if there's anything wrong and it's running fine. Does anyone have any ideas on what could cause that kind of warning to disappear? The only thing I can think of that might have caused it is that I was driving (albeit very slowly) down an extremely potholey road at the time it came on

[karlbar2k]

http://briskoda.net/diagnostics-vag-com/vag-com-owners-map/80992/ HTH

poor MPG could be a number of things but getting the codes read should help find out what you need to look at first.

[ap0gee1978]

I have a 30 quid code reader in the car, and an (unregister) copy of VAG-COM on my laptop. VC will identify codes that the cheapo reader won't (e.g. the cheapo reader wouldn't clear SWMBO's airbag light after I'd disconnected her battery), but a 70-80 quid reader will have almost as much functionality. In terms of warning light 'kills', it's about 50:50 between my reader and VC, so I'll only reach for VC if the reader won't clear the fault. VC does so much more than a code reader ever could, of course, but the main problem with VC that I've found is that it's a bit of a madam, and doesn't like running concurrent with certain software, and even (AIUI) on certain makes of laptop...

[Interphase]

That's good advice all, thank you.

This situation did develop a bit - both lights had cleared this morning, so I set off as usual and about 30min into the journey, just trundling along in traffic, the dash lit up again. The EPC light came on with the traction control on, and the car shut off all boost. I managed to get it to work by avoiding getting into oomph-requiring situations and just before I got there the engine management light came on too.

I gave my mechanic a call, and it turns out he has a compatible Solus rig - this identified a fault with the angle sensor on the throttle body, claiming an intermittent / unplausible signal. One reprogram later and it seems to be running right as rain again, with what feels like a much more feisty edge when it first comes on boost. I suppose it makes sense that the throttle body could register as part of the traction control system, but I hadn't considered it. Surprisingly it didn't flag up any other codes, including the one I expected to be there for the flap motor.

Just have to keep an eye on it now, fingers crossed

Edited 17 October, 2008 by Interphase

[thebloyn]

flap codes on mine came and went, as the heating and cooling all worked fine it was a non issue, there are ways to reset them with vagcom but i wouldnt worry too much.

[Interphase]

It does indeed seem to work OK, but it's bloody irritating if you're not listening to the stereo and all you can hear are little hums, clicks and whirrs from behind the glovebox as the motor fritters about

I'll just have to tell passengers that the car is in ninja monitoring mode, and that's the sound of the onboard supercomputer automatically hunting down deserted patches of B-road

[Interphase]

Argh!

I could really do with a bit of advice if anyone knows what might be going on here - I'm beginning to think that buying this car was a huge mistake.

As detailed above, my mechanic reprogrammed the throttle body to get rid of the error codes that kept sending it into limp mode, and initially it was fine. I started it earlier today and the idle before it warmed up seemed a bit rough. It also felt slightly down on power out on the country roads, with less on the immediate surge when it came on boost.

I've just been out now and the first attempt to start it choked the engine and displayed a battery light symbol. I restarted it and this time it caught, but did nothing more than sit there surging and coughing between 700 and 1200 revs, accompanied by what sounded like a squealing belt.

Any ideas folks? I'm really stuck here and dreading what it might cost to put right - money I really don't have :(

Edited 19 October, 2008 by Interphase

[rwbaldwin]

First thing I'd check for is a vacuum leak. This often causes rough idling.

[Interphase]

Would the definition of rough cover the sort of behaviour I saw tonight - the surge>falter>surge cycle, with the car nearly stalling whenever it faltered? I'm also a bit concerned about the squeaky belt as there hasn't been the slightest hint of a squeal from the engine so far and it seems odd that it should show up at the same time.

As far as I know all of the pipes prone to splitting have already been replaced in the recent past, along with the MAF and Lambda sensors.

[Interphase]

Sorry for the double post, but I've just tried it again - this time the surging is harsher, the squeak is louder and the EPC and traction control lights have come back on as they did before the throttle body reset.

I'm now out of ideas and worried that I've taken a problem I'm going to struggle to fix..

Edited 19 October, 2008 by Interphase

[rwbaldwin]

Would the definition of rough cover the sort of behaviour I saw tonight - the surge>falter>surge cycle, with the car nearly stalling whenever it faltered?

I would call it 'hunting' - the inability to idle at a constant speed.

Another more serious posibility, would be the cambelt tensioner and that may cause a belt noise.

What is the mileage and do you know when the cambelt was last changed?

[Interphase]

The mileage is 68k and the cambelt was done 2 weeks ago as a condition of the sale, although I have to admit, that was a concern of mine when this happened. I was wondering if the attempt to stop a stall could be putting extra load on the alternator and the squeal was coming from there?

The reason I was reluctant to call it hunting was because it sounded more like the engine was revving to recover from a stall rather than sweeping through a valid rev range.. although I suppose it's as good a definition as any now I come to think of it.

[rwbaldwin]

Did they just replace the belt, or did they do the cambelt kit?

[Interphase]

From what I can tell it was the whole kit, plus the water pump - that's what's marked on the receipt anyway. There hasn't been a hint of squeaking so far since I collected it - it only happened with this evenings failure to start, and the sound seems synchronised with the surges in revs.

[ap0gee1978]

How about the auxiliary drive belt, then? If this is loose, the load on the engine would vary, which could cause the hunting, and it could definitely cause a squeaking noise.

The only other thing I can think of is that you say that the throttle body's been reset. The engine ought to idle at around 900 rpm, but since the Fabia throttle is drive-by-wire, it's entirely dependent on the ECU being set right. Therefore if it was unwittingly set wrong when it was reset by your mechanic, then the idle settings and anti-stall could be in a perpetual electronic battle!

[rwbaldwin]

From what I can tell it was the whole kit, plus the water pump - that's what's marked on the receipt anyway. There hasn't been a hint of squeaking so far since I collected it - it only happened with this evenings failure to start, and the sound seems synchronised with the surges in revs.

That is great news that water pump and full cambelt kit has been done.

I'd try the following whilst idling to see if it makes a squeal:

Turn the A/C on and off.

Turn steering wheel.

Turn on headlights, front/rear foglights, rear window heater.

In each case press lightly on the accelerator.

Do you get a squeal?

What you are doing is loading up the A/C pump, power steering pump and alternator respectively making them more difficult to turn.

[Interphase]

Cheers both, those are things worth considering.

So far the engine has idled at a rock solid 700rpm or so without any hunting whatsoever - it initially sits at about 1100 for the first 30 seconds or so, then shifts down to just under 1000 and slowly creeps towards 700 over the next 30 seconds. After the throttle body was reset, the car was behaving very well for the rest of the day so I would imagine the throttle and ECU weren't having immediate problems with each other. On the run the next morning, the idle was the same but the engine had a noticeably rougher note. The complete failure to idle smoothly (and the squeaking) only started later that evening completely out of the blue. Does all diagnostic kit with a knowledge of that particular car work the same way when it comes to a throttle reset? Not quite sure how that works..

rwbaldwin: When the problem happened I already had the lights on, and when I attempted to give it a bit of gas just to see if the idle would stabilise at higher revs there was little difference in engine speed or the amount of squeaking - it just coughed louder and didn't want to respond. The next time I tried it I had the lights off, but with the same response - only this time the dash did it's christmas tree routine I'll give it a try later today to see if loading it makes a noticeable difference.

Hopefully I'll be able to get my mechanic round later today to read the codes again and see if the same thing has cropped up (throttle angle sensor - unplausible signal). I'll ask him to have a look over the belts and make sure that they're doing their bit, and I suppose it might be worth looking at the throttle body itself to see if it's gunked up.

Either way, I hope it's easily fixable - I need to use the car to get to a residential trip at work in a couple of days, and there are going to be a lot of disappointed young people if we have to call it off :(

[ap0gee1978]

Throttle angle sensor fault does sound like there's been a problem resetting the TB, to my far-from-expert mind. Does your car have AC? Try switching that on, 'cos it will pull the idle revs nearer the 1k mark so things might settle down. Could make for a good work-around, although both our Fabias have the AC on all the time anyway, as it dehumidifies the air coming in and helps keep the system in good condition...

[Interphase]

The angle sensor fault was the original one that came on out of the blue - I was just rolling along at 15mph looking for a house to drop off a passenger and the EPC and ASR lights came on at the same time. I haven't actually had the codes read yet this time so it may actually be that it isn't the same problem. The throttle reset did clear the faults and the car was on top form for all of about 30 miles, but then came this weird sluggishness followed by a refusal to do anything. It does have Climatronic so I can try using that to see what happens when we're diagnosing it.

I was speaking to a Skoda parts guy earlier to get a few prices in case one of the suggestions above turns out to be correct, and he said that he'd never actually sold a throttle body because they tend not to fail. He reckoned that (as rlbaldwin suggested) it's usually leaks or MAF failures that make it look like the throttle body is at fault, and if not then a solid clean almost always sets them straight with the occasional need for a temperature sensor. He also suggested that almost any of the above issues can lead to worse than expected economy which may explain a few things.

You've all given me a lot to think about though, so many thanks:

- Check for leaks on the intake side

- Make sure the belts are clean and not slipping

- Check and clean the throttle body, if necessary

- See if adding extra load makes any difference

Hopefully I'll be back on the road soon

[ap0gee1978]

These are the published troubleshooting points for dodgy idle, in the order of checking:

Hope you get to the bottom of it...

[Interphase]

Excellent, cheers

I hope so too - I got to take it for a blast along a few great country lanes near Bruntingthorpe yesterday before it packed in, and it's whetted my appetite for what it's capable of

[Jigger72]

Hi there. Rough start up is standard and could be the Secondary Air Pump waiting to get the temp up. It sounds like a tractor for a minute or two. Wait until it settles before heading off. If it continues after more than 15 minutes there is deffo a problem.

Cleaning the throttle body might help lumpy idle.

The noises from the glovebox (recirc flap motor) is also common and isn't going to harm anything but is irritating. It cost my warranty company £300 to fix the 2 new motors and now there are no more mice in the glovebox.

The other stuff sounds like whoever reset the throttle has done something else to the ECU. Was it a VAG garage or an indy? You need to take it to someone with full VAGCOM and get it diagnosed ASAP. Hope you get it sorted

[Interphase]

This goes beyond tractor, and into combined harvester munching on a hedge full of spanners previously it idled perfectly even when going through the warmup phase with the air pump running - now I'd struggle to even call it idling, as it's barely staying alive and seems to be a series of splutters and coughs loosely strung together with absolutely no throttle response.

It's painful to listen to tbh, and there's no question of even getting it to move at the moment so taking it to someone with VAG.COM isn't possible :( The diagnostic kit was a Snap-On Solus, but had a keycard for this engine and a preset for this particular car. Is it likely to match the VAG.COM settings given that it's a well known and not at all cheap piece of kit?