Hi again,

Now the alternator has kicked the bucket on my friends FELICIA 1.3 1999. I have taken it off the car, and the first thing I did was to check the brushes, they appear good, still very long and retracting and springing back as they should do. I just read an article on repair and diagnosis of alternator faults.

Alternator stripdown and repair

How it works

As it happens before I removed the alternator I charged the battery to do some tests with the engine running.

Started car, battery warning light and ignition light both stayed on constantly (2 red lights)

Voltage of battery drops at a slow rate with no load on the engine (engine running)

Put on rear demister and headlights, voltage on battery rapidly decreases by 0.1V every second until car died at 7V

The article mentions ign light remaining on (a Rover 800) means possibly/probably a rectifier fault.

Also mentions on Rovers a 100amp fuse that can be blown in cases of no battery charging at all....anything like that on the felicia?

Does anyone here have any further knowledge on this area with respect to the felicia/favorit, if there is a clue from both our red lights staying on? OR any further tests I should do on the removed alternator or refit the alternator to do any further tests, refitting it temporarily will be fairly easy so no problem for me to do that.

I have looked up the alternator on the web also it is a Lucas LRB00347, I found a website woodauto.com and they tell me that this alternator (or the cross ref models) is only used on 1.3 felicia from '97 to '01 and favorits from 93 to 95. So I am fairly limited to choice as far as the scrap man is concerned........unless you have a better idea?

Can I take it to a Lucas shop, and will they be able to do a (hopefully free) diagnosis check so I can order the correct part that has failed eg rectifier.

I've been quoted £110 for a refurb unit, not sure if that was an exchange for the old unit or not.

Also What would be the symptoms of a voltage regulator failure? Any tests I could do to determine if it was that instead of the alternator? And please say where I will find/see the voltage regulator on the car, as I haven't a clue.

Thanks

Edited 11 February, 200917 yr by temps

Voltage regulator is relatively cheap and easy to replace. The 1.3 alternaters come in a variety of amperages and a higher one than already fitted should cause no problem.

Oh, drats, i just realised what he ( click ) means by voltage regulator, he means the regulator/brush box on the alternator itself. I thought he meant a seperate thingy on the side of the engine compartment.

Still in the dark as to how to tell which part of the alternator is at fault. Don't want to change the regulator brush box, and then find the problem still there and maybe the rectifier.

The regulator is built in to the alternator, and can be replaced seperately.

[edit]

I see you've found that out.

Personally, I'd take the unit you have to a reconditioner and have it rebuilt and tested.

Edited 11 February, 200917 yr by cjb

Just had the same problem on my 1.3 1997 Felecia. Decided the easiest way was to get an alternator from the local scrap yard, cost £29, and just replaced the voltage regulator which cured my problem, and I have an alternator if needed later on. 3 minute job to replace, and appears to be a more common failure than the alternator itself.

It's quite rare for the actual alternator to go wrong, it's nearly always the regulator that fails. It's held on with 2 screws and takes virtually no time to replace. You don't even need to remove the alternator.

Hi guys

Quick update, I already have it off the car, but I realised I messed up when I tested it on the car before, so when I get around to it I will be refitting it to the car to do a proper test.

I also found out about bench testing the regulator. For a 3 terminal'd regulator, you need to identify which terminal

*goes to ground - on the felicia regulator it is one of the screws that hold the regulator to the alternator body. The left one as you view the regulator from above.

*goes to the dash warning lamp. - on our regulator it is the short wire from the regulator to a spade terminal, unplug the spade terminal

*There is only one terminal remaining

http://www.geocities.com/fwarner_au/mc_things/Reg_test.htm

So far I also have some insight into testing the rectifier, you have to dismantle the alternator, de-solder the rectifier from the windings (3 of them apparently) then test the individual diodes with appropriate multimeter.

Also discovered, testing the regulator on the car, with the ignition off, move a screw driver near to the pulley centre nut, you should feel no magnetic field affecting the screwdriver blade. Now turn on ignition without starting the car. After a short time you should now feel a magnetic field pulling on the blade, you can also hold the screwdriver at the rear of the alternator, in the centre of the rear near the regulator box, think of the centre line axis through the alternator from the pulley through to the back of the alternator. Should have the same effect at that end. Although why this indicates a broken regulator and not a broken rectifier, beats me, IMO it could be either. I just tried this on a good car, and the magnetic pull is very slight but it's there.

Edited 13 February, 200917 yr by temps

Another update,

I had no luck getting a regulator, no motor factor sells them, some said they hadn't seen or heard of them for years. Even an auto electrics supplier could not get one. The local LSUK centre has also closed down. The only place I found a regulator for the felicia alternator was on the internet from woodauto (see below), Cost would have been £25 inc VAT and delivery.

Had no luck finding an alternator in about 8 scrapyards. One scrappy noted its similarity to a Mk1 Ford fiesta, he showed me one, and I agreed, but I didn't opt to buy it until I did some further price searching.

I found one new (recon) for £30 delivered, decided that was better than a £15 scrappy one. And a better option than a £25 regulator which we don't even know if that is what is at fault.

Wood Auto Supplies Ltd :: ALT4029..Ford Alt

I didn't order from this site (but you can see it is £40) it shows the picture similar to the felicia which is the following one costing £104

Wood Auto Supplies Ltd :: ALT20400..Skoda Alt

All I have to do is modify the warning lamp cable and I think the main +tve terminal will be the same bolt on ring terminal. Then I have to make a spacer about 12mm thick for the mounting bolt to go through, and also put the skoda pulley onto the Ford alternator.

Alternator will arrive in a couple of days, then I'll fit it and let you know how I got on.

Edited 20 February, 200917 yr by temps

Update

Success!

I can confirm you can use a much cheaper Ford alternator Lucas # LRA604 or Ford ALT4029 for the Mk1 Fiesta price £30 - £45 for your 1.3 Felicia to replace LRB00347 price £115 - £130

You need to do some modifications

Remove pulley / fan wheel from Skoda alt have to hold fan wheel or pulley in a vice, use 21mm socket on nut.

Remove fan/pulley from Ford (If it has one) use an allen key in the tip of the shaft and a 22mm ring spanner.

Now fit fan / *pulley onto Ford alt and tighten nut strong. *Note.....you may have trouble getting the pulley onto the Ford shaft, you can use a round file to try to make the inside bigger, or carefully tap it on with a hammer watch out for damage to the thread. I bored out the internal diameter of my pulley by only about 3 thousandth of an inch using a lathe and it went on easily.

The pivot bolt on the Skoda is M10, the Ford is M8 so you will need an M8 bolt of the same length or slightly longer.

The rear pivot 'leg' on the Ford comes with a M8 bush inside 20mm long (you can see it in the picture on the woodauto page above), you need to cut this down to 15mm - hacksaw or lathe or make a new spigot one on lathe - you should cut this bush after making the spacer detailed below, and measuring the 65.5mm gap, once you have the right gap, you will know how much to cut off to make the bush flush on the outside, but it needs to be about 15mm to fit snugly into the mounting gap available. Hopefully you will understand and work it out when you do this yourself.

The front pivot 'leg' on Ford is too narrow, you need to make an M8 spacer 14 - 15mm thick (VERY IMPORTANT to be about 14mm otherwise your pulley will be out of alignment) can be any diameter over 13mm, I recommend 20 - 25mm

pass an M8 bolt through the two legs, now mount the M8 spacer on the inside of the front leg (front is the pulley end, and the rear is the wire harness end.) Now you need to have a gap of 65.5mm - 66mm from the inside face of the spacer to the inside face at the other end, you will find the gap is too big, which is why you need to tap the 15mm bush into the hole so that it is flush on the external face of the rear leg, and sticking out into the inside, the gap should now be 65.5 - 66mm

Now all you need is to remove the spade connector from the warning lamp wire and replace it with a crimp ring connector, or use a small piece of wire 20mm long with a male spade on one end and a ring on the other. The thick wire connector goes to the B+ on the Ford (it's in approximately the same place on both alternators) It's the main big conector with 10mm (spanner size) nut. The warning lamp (smaller wire) now with a ring terminal goes onto the small screw thread mounting in the roughly the same location as the spade terminal was on the Skoda Alt. You attach nothing to the Ford 'W' terminal

Fit the alt on the car and test it is giving you 14V

I'm glad to say mine is working perfectly, and only cost £30 delivered!!! in recon "as new" condition.

The only thing I didn't think about was the M8 bolt passing through the engine mounting bracket which has M10 holes (for the M10 bolt), it would be best if you could make a sleeve with an external diameter the same as the M10 bolt (about 9.8mm) and internal diameter to fit the M8 bolt snugly (8mm) , cut to 65mm length to support the M8 bolt in the bracket. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would do the job. But it would help to make the alternator a lot more secure.

Edited 23 February, 200917 yr by temps

Hi Temps, Where in the country are you, I could make a sleeve for you if required. You could also try asking at a model engineering club if there's one near you. If you want me to make a sleeve for you PM me.

Chris

These pictures should help anyone who wants to do this

The first pic shows the parts you will need to make. Part 'B' is the spacer, it is important because it will position the pulley, it doesn't have to be round, you can use anything you want that is strong and about 14.5mm thick, drill an 8mm hole through it - use 14 large M8 washers if you want to. It should be 13.5mm but because the overall gap between the ford alternator pivot mounts is 83mm I had to increase it 14.5mm, - 1mm is not going to make much difference to the belt. I made part 'D' because I wanted to keep my part 'A' intact. Part 'A' is a bush that comes fitted to the ford alt, and I didn't want to cut it incase I had to return the alternator. If you use/cut part 'A' you will have to knock it in so it is flush on the outside of the alternator leg. To clarify you only need part 'A' or part 'D" not both.

Part 'C' is a sleeve for the M8 bolt, it's best if you can get one but not essential if you tighten the bolt hard. I used a piece of pipe I found that was almost perfect. One idea I had was to use the sleeve from an M8 masonry rawllok, and turn it down to 9.8mm external diameter, I have no idea if it will be suitable or not, it was just an idea I had. Has to be 65mm length.

See here

This one shows the general assembly of the parts. Ignore the washer (on the right), I just had that to try to fill in a gap I had because my part 'B' is 13.5mm

This one is the pivot assembled on the car, minus the washer, I decided to leave it out, this might put a little strain on the alt's 'legs' as they are squeezed to take up the slack in the 83mm gap, which is why you should have a spacer 14.5mm

This one shows that you have to pack out the adjuster nut, because a gap is created, using the ford alt. You see I have a washer or two, (I would have put two but I only had one spare I suggest you put two) in the central gap between the alt and the adjustment slide.

This last one shows the wiring adapted to connect, and where to connect.

Edited 25 February, 200917 yr by temps

Hi there,

I recently replaced my voltage regulator. (5 minute job)

The failure symptoms are:

1: Lights glower and dim with engine revs.

2: fuses blow if revs get to high.

3: radio will lose reception at low revs.

4: on long journeys the battery will overheat and smell of bad eggs!

If this isn't happening then it sounds like you have a fudged battery. (it happens!)

If it is happening I can put you on to a reputable supplier of skoda electric parts

(jcrsupplies on e-bay)

hope this helps

Tino.

Hi,

I believe mine was a faulty rectifier, the symptoms you describe indicate a voltage output that increases with revs and not limited to 14.5V, this is easy to diagnose as a regulator problem. Mine had no voltage output at any revs. It could still have been the regulator but there was no way to determine this without changing the regulator which could have been an expensive (£25) mistake. Better to change the whole alternator to a new reconditioned Ford one for only £5 more than the cost of a regulator which may not be faulty.

Where did you get your new regulator from and how much was it? I found them impossible to find, either in scrap yards or from motor factors.

Edit: Ok I guess you got it from Ebay, cost about £18 delivered. Still an expensive mistake to make. A mistake this guy on ebay made aswell

Ebay item 230327230720

"skoda favorit/felicia petrol alternator regulator boxed...

cost over £20 last year to fit on a 93 favorit 1.3 (bought in error)

alternator was faulty not the regulator so replaced complete alternator"

Edited 25 February, 200917 yr by temps

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/sis.html?_nkw=skoda%20favorit%20felicia%20petrol%20alternator%20regulator%20boxed&_itemId=230327230720

I've been looking for regulators as well. Have been getting alternators from scrap yard for £20 and replacing whole thing but two out of three times it has only been the brushes that need replacing. Had almost given up trying to find them but there are some at the link above. About £20 all in, which is the same price as a scrappy alternator but at least I know the brushes are in good condition and it's a 5 min job to replace them. Hope the link helps in future.

http://www.jorily.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=131_4_72&products_id=169

jorily sells them....has done for years...

A voltage regulator is an electrical regulator designed to automatically maintain a constant voltage level.

The regulator on alternators is also responsible of maintaining a proper battery charging current, higher when battery is depleted and lower when fully charged.

Those being said, the easiest way to identify a faulty regulator is to measure the voltage across the battery while engine is running. A typical voltage should be 13.5... 14 Volts, no matter the engine speed.

A more empirical way is to observe the effect on consumers.

For instance, when the regulator is fried, the higher the engine speed, the brighter the lamps get, the quicker the wipers move, etc.

Edited 31 May, 201214 yr by masster