Got some good advice from you kind people a few weeks back.

The Ka nearly went up in smoke this morning so it's new car time.

Have gone through all the pros and cons, NCAP ratings, engine choice etc etc, and of course all the important things to SWMBO such as whether it is available in funky colours and if it has a decent stereo

Fabia is my personal choice, ForFour a latecomer to proceedings, new shape Astra a rank outsider for budget (4k including Ka trade in).

I also like the Meganes but everything I read talks about bad reliability.

Ibiza and Leon are old friends of ours.

I voted Fabia, but would consider anything except the Megane. I mean, it's FRENCH.

I'd put the astra last of what remains. Not much to choose between the others: they are all pretty good IMO.

looks to be between the Leon and Fabia.

Between these it comes down to size, little more space in a Leon for kids/bikes/pets etc!

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Astra - not a bad car, almost newest in budget and probably the newest design out of that list.

The leon and fabia (unsurprisingly the favourites on here) are a bit long in the tooth

Yes, the Astra went in for that reason - good looking car and ticks most of the boxes.

The Smart looks nice in pics but can't remember seeing one in the flesh so will take one out on Saturday.

Well we moved the missus from a Ka to a Furby vRS and she loves it

We have a Toledo (Leon with boot) and absolutely love it; it'll be very hard to replace when the time comes (next year). I have now done 105k on it (Adding 60k to the clock) and paid under 5k for it 4 years ago for a 51 plate (I have an SE which has cruise, climate, armrest. 6 cd player, alloys, TCS, alarm and trip).

The Leon would be a great family car as it has a reasonable size boot (small compared to my Toledo!) but I think the furby would be able a great car as well (we have used ours with our nephew for the day and it was plenty room enough)

EDIT: BTW my car feels extremely well screwed together and would feel more than safe with a Kid in there. Same as the fabia it feels sturdy and well made and with stand a lot of force in accident. There are some horrific accidents of Ibizas, furbies and Leons on here and SCN and people have walked away with minor injuries considering the damage!

Either of the Seats, or the Skoda.

Reanult - enough said. Vauxhall - likewise.

Smart - The first time I saw one it was black, and looked "odd", but the second one was purple and silver and made me say "The Smart 4why?" - seriously, the colour split o nthe 2-tone seemed to be chosen to highlight the odd panel shut positions and panel gaps you might have seen the opposite side of on a clear day.

I voted Leon. One of my favourite shapes.

I currently own an R26 Megane but l wouldn't buy a non-Renaultsport model cause the build quality just isn't there yet. Different story with the RS models really.

Conversely I wouldn't even consider a Renaultsport (unless that's the new name for cars from the old Alpine factory) because my experience of the "cooking" versions suggests that the higher power and harder springs will result in them dismantling themselves even quicker!

Conversely I wouldn't even consider a Renaultsport (unless that's the new name for cars from the old Alpine factory) because my experience of the "cooking" versions suggests that the higher power and harder springs will result in them dismantling themselves even quicker!

All proper renaultsports are built at the Dieppe (Alpine) factory. This obviously doesn't apply to 5 GT Turbo's and Clio Williams as they weren't official renaultsport. Its interesting because l wouldn't buy a 182 either as l think the build on them just isn't quite up there but having owned 2 RS Meganes and a 197 l have to say they're getting it right on the newer RS models. I'm obviously biased but for an impartial opinion of what they're like, ask Wardy.

Anyway, getting slightly off topic. So yes, l think a Leon. What engine size and spec is in mind?

We have a Toledo (Leon with boot) and absolutely love it; it'll be very hard to replace when the time comes (next year). I have now done 105k on it (Adding 60k to the clock) and paid under 5k for it 4 years ago for a 51 plate (I have an SE which has cruise, climate, armrest. 6 cd player, alloys, TCS, alarm and trip).

Lots of respect for the Toledo - I ran a T-reg V5 (150bhp) for 3 years and aside form the accepted usual problems it was a fantastic car - so much kit for so little money.

I moved onto a Leon Cupra and considered the 1.8t varient Toledo but for some reason Seat only gave all the options for free on the V5 models - the 180bhp turbo models were poorly equipped :(

What engine size and spec is in mind?

Probably around the 1.4 mark - spec as high as possible for the money. There's a reasonable looking 1.4 Leon on Auto Trader, but it looks very 'plain' and I think that engine may be miserable in a medium sized car.

Got most of the contenders lined up for a driver tomorrow, should be an interesting day.

Is there any scope to go for one of the lower power diesel variants? As you say a 1.4 in the Leon isn't the most sparkling performer to say the very least.

All proper renaultsports are built at the Dieppe (Alpine) factory. This obviously doesn't apply to 5 GT Turbo's and Clio Williams as they weren't official renaultsport. Its interesting because l wouldn't buy a 182 either as l think the build on them just isn't quite up there but having owned 2 RS Meganes and a 197 l have to say they're getting it right on the newer RS models. I'm obviously biased but for an impartial opinion of what they're like, ask Wardy.

Anyway, getting slightly off topic. So yes, l think a Leon. What engine size and spec is in mind?

See, if they'd just called them Alpines, we'd have known.

Smart is a very nice car and from the ones i've seen they go well, but also are economical.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=145

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/used_car_reviews/article1292260.ece

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/longtermtests/53085/smart_forfour.html

I'd go for the Fabia on the list above. Predictable perhaps, but if you're looking at smaller engined Leons, I feel they'll struggle with a car the next size up. The others I don't find that appealing; Ibiza perhaps, if you could find one that offered substantially better VFM.

And in answer the slight OT earlier, I'd recommend going and having a drive in a recent RenaultSport offering Ken

Steve

I'd go for the Fabia on the list above. Predictable perhaps, but if you're looking at smaller engined Leons, I feel they'll struggle with a car the next size up. The others I don't find that appealing; Ibiza perhaps, if you could find one that offered substantially better VFM.

And in answer the slight OT earlier, I'd recommend going and having a drive in a recent RenaultSport offering Ken

Steve

As implied above, if I'd known they were actually Alpines and not just badge-engineered sheds...

Either way, you need to have tried one before you can come to that conclusion surely? Or did you just presume that would be the case?

Lots of respect for the Toledo - I ran a T-reg V5 (150bhp) for 3 years and aside form the accepted usual problems it was a fantastic car - so much kit for so little money.

I moved onto a Leon Cupra and considered the 1.8t varient Toledo but for some reason Seat only gave all the options for free on the V5 models - the 180bhp turbo models were poorly equipped :(

Probably around the 1.4 mark - spec as high as possible for the money. There's a reasonable looking 1.4 Leon on Auto Trader, but it looks very 'plain' and I think that engine may be miserable in a medium sized car.

Got most of the contenders lined up for a driver tomorrow, should be an interesting day.

Then I'd suggest looking at a TDI 110 as when I looked they were very similar price wise to the 1.6 and it has got reasonable performance. The 110 is an extremely tractable engines and one of the best TDIs I have driven. The 130 just isn't as flexible low down the rev range.

Had an interesting day.

Biggest surprise was the Fabia - tried an Elegance diesel, neither of us liked it and I didn't fit in it. Contemporary Polo at the same place even worse. Surprisingly, the Ibiza which I'd always had in my head as almost identical to the Polo and Fabia was a lovely thing - different dashboard meant my legs fit in it and just generally 'nicer'.

Smart was no good - boot was tiny and neither of us particularly liked it.

Astra also surprisingly good.

Didn't bother driving the Megane as was already put off by reliability reports and SWMBO thought she would hit the big metallic bum sticking out of the rear.

2nd biggest surprise was a Citroen C3. Great looking, loads of space, ISOFIX - had written it off previously as being too small, but it was the most comforable of the super minis and easily on a par with the Astra/Leon for passenger room.

Current shortlist is therefore:

Astra, Ibiza, C3 and C4 which we also sat in - need to do some reliability research on the last 2.

Sorry to disappoint on the Fabia - I've always admired them but not for us.

You havent listed any specs/models and prices.

Had an interesting day.

Biggest surprise was the Fabia - tried an Elegance diesel, neither of us liked it and I didn't fit in it. Contemporary Polo at the same place even worse. Surprisingly, the Ibiza which I'd always had in my head as almost identical to the Polo and Fabia was a lovely thing - different dashboard meant my legs fit in it and just generally 'nicer'.

Smart was no good - boot was tiny and neither of us particularly liked it.

Astra also surprisingly good.

Didn't bother driving the Megane as was already put off by reliability reports and SWMBO thought she would hit the big metallic bum sticking out of the rear.

2nd biggest surprise was a Citroen C3. Great looking, loads of space, ISOFIX - had written it off previously as being too small, but it was the most comforable of the super minis and easily on a par with the Astra/Leon for passenger room.

Current shortlist is therefore:

Astra, Ibiza, C3 and C4 which we also sat in - need to do some reliability research on the last 2.

Sorry to disappoint on the Fabia - I've always admired them but not for us.

Not tried a Leon/Toledo yet then?

No need - we've owned both previously. Fine cars the pair of them.

Slightly surprisingly, water leaks in the C3 Plurial (the convertable natch) aside, I've not heard of any real issues with the C3 or C4 (and am still a member of the Citroen Car Club).

Either way, you need to have tried one before you can come to that conclusion surely? Or did you just presume that would be the case?

Like most real enthusiasts, I actually respect Alpine. As for trying one, if you think the cooking versions are sheds, why would you presume the RenaultSport versions were anything more than "badge-engineered sheds" when you didn't have a reason to think they might be worth of respect?

Slightly surprisingly, water leaks in the C3 Plurial (the convertable natch) aside, I've not heard of any real issues with the C3 or C4 (and am still a member of the Citroen Car Club).

Really? Have you owned either?

Just curious because a read through the owners comments on the What Car site has put me off both - literally for every good review there is a bad.