Hi All,

Just under 5 months ago I traded my wifes 07 plate Corsa at an Evans Halshaw Vauxhall / Ford dealership for a 55 plate Ford C- Max (with 3 months warranty), within the first week I reported an engine management fault and off it went to the garage for warranty repair). It has been back a further 3 times for the same fault and last month they agreed to repair it one last time (4th time with same intermittent fault) even though it was outside the warranty. It has happened again (same fault) and am being told the Ford garage / dealership can't say for sure what is causing the problem but recommend they fit a new instrument cluster at a cost of £491. I have argued this with the service dept and have refused to pay, I have now told them I want to reject the car for breaking every ground under the 'sales of goods act' as the car is:

-Not sold as described i.e with an intermittent fault

-Not of satisfactory quality

-Not fit for its purpose

Do you think I have a sound case? I am not expecting a full refund but a refund minus useage (couple thousand miles we've put on it). I am waiting on a call tomorrow from the asles manager at Vauxhall to see if we can resolve this problem.

I'm really hoping I'm not being too optimistic, I am so sick of this car and really cant afford to scrap it and buy another, all I wanted was a family car for my wife and new baby son :( but has been nothing but complete hassle and worry

Thanks for the advice people.

John

I think you'll be lucky to get them to accept the car back unless this fault (which you don't specify) turns the car into a non-runner, although you might stand a chance persuading them to fit the new cluster FOC...

This article tells you exactly what's what:

Honestjohn: Frequently Asked Questions

Hi All,

Just under 5 months ago I traded my wifes 07 plate Corsa at an Evans Halshaw Vauxhall / Ford dealership for a 55 plate Ford C- Max (with 3 months warranty), within the first week I reported an engine management fault and off it went to the garage for warranty repair). It has been back a further 3 times for the same fault and last month they agreed to repair it one last time (4th time with same intermittent fault) even though it was outside the warranty. It has happened again (same fault) and am being told the Ford garage / dealership can't say for sure what is causing the problem but recommend they fit a new instrument cluster at a cost of £491. I have argued this with the service dept and have refused to pay, I have now told them I want to reject the car for breaking every ground under the 'sales of goods act' as the car is:

-Not sold as described i.e with an intermittent fault

-Not of satisfactory quality

-Not fit for its purpose

Do you think I have a sound case? I am not expecting a full refund but a refund minus useage (couple thousand miles we've put on it). I am waiting on a call tomorrow from the asles manager at Vauxhall to see if we can resolve this problem.

I'm really hoping I'm not being too optimistic, I am so sick of this car and really cant afford to scrap it and buy another, all I wanted was a family car for my wife and new baby son :( but has been nothing but complete hassle and worry

Thanks for the advice people.

John

You should have a case as the sale of goods act covers you for faults within a reasonable time (6 months is reasonable) irrespective of whatever warranty you were given.

You sound reasonable about things (refund minus some depreciation) so hopefully you can work it out. Failing that you'll want to speak to Trading Standards/CAB about your rights.

At this stage I might do that first before offering the Sales manager money for the "wear" of the car.

Edit to add, at this stage I don't see how they can request you pay for the repair - SoGA overrides any warranty they offered.

At this stage I might do that first before offering the Sales manager money for the "wear" of the car.

Edit to add, at this stage I don't see how they can request you pay for the repair - SoGA overrides any warranty they offered.

Thanks guys, it's good to know I'm not being unreasonable or completely off the mark, I'm not going to mention I will accept a refund minus depreciation unless they're going to be really awkward, I'll go in expectant first!

It makes me so angry the fact I gave them (practically) an almost brand new car which I had looked after extremely well (I even gave it a full detail before I traded it) and in return I got this skip of a car.

The second time teh fault happened I even recorded it with my DV Camera as the ECU wasnt logging the faults and the garage didnt believe me! Could come in very useful now.

Thanks again

What's actually going wrong, though? As I say, if it's just a rogue warning light and there aren't actually any problems with the engine, then you'll struggle to get anything more than a waiver on the cost of the new panel. If there is actually a fault, though, you've definitely done the right thing...

If this is an actual fault, one of my mum's neighbours managed to reject a used car after several months in similar circumstances.

What's actually going wrong, though? As I say, if it's just a rogue warning light and there aren't actually any problems with the engine, then you'll struggle to get anything more than a waiver on the cost of the new panel. If there is actually a fault, though, you've definitely done the right thing...

Honestly the garage dont know, the fault is an intermittant fault which when you turn the key nothing happens at all, and when you do get it started it flashes on the instrument display 'reduced acceleration' and you cant accelerate properly. On numerous occasions my wife has been stranded with our new born son and have had to be recovered. Sometimes whilst driving as well its flashed up reduced acceleration and that I consider damn right dangerous suddenly having no drive!!!

The garage were so clueless and didnt believe me as the ECU wasnt logging the faults that I drove it round with my DV Camera in it so I could film the footage and I made them a DVD of all the faults happening.

This is not just a rogue warning light.

If this is an actual fault, one of my mum's neighbours managed to reject a used car after several months in similar circumstances.

In your opinion Ken off what I have just described above would you consider this a 'worthy fault' to reject the car?

Thanks bud, John

Having said what you've said, I'd certainly change my opinion, and reckon you've got a case after all - the link I posted before would certainly suggest so. There are certain provisos like giving them three attempts to repair the fault (which you have done) so I'd press on!

It's a persistent fault which renders the car dangerous or undrivable, so it's certainly possible that it's a cause for rejection. Unfortunately, I don't know all the details of my neighbour's case, except that he had a courtesy car off and on for several months before rejecting it!

Thanks again for all the helpful comments, I'll keep you all posted on the outcome after I've spoke to the branch manager tomorrow. knew I should of bought an Octy!

John

What did they do to rectify the fault while it was still under warranty?

Surely if they think the fault is the cluster then they would have replaced it before your warranty ran out.

It seems to me that they have fobbed you off until the 3 month period then try to make a considerable amount of money for a replacement part.

Just my opinion of course.

:iagree:

What did they do to rectify the fault while it was still under warranty?

Surely if they think the fault is the cluster then they would have replaced it before your warranty ran out.

It seems to me that they have fobbed you off until the 3 month period then try to make a considerable amount of money for a replacement part.

Just my opinion of course.

First Time they gave me it back and said they couldnt find anything - nothing logging on ECU so cant solve a problem that isnt there.

Second time as well as the intermittant fault all the panels were creaking so went in for both, they fixed the door seals then cleared the fault codes and said it would be fine. I decided to film the car doing its thing as evidence and made a DVD for the mechanics to see.

Third time again they read the diagnostics and found nothing, so I was given a courtesy vehicle and one of the mechanics gave it an extended road test (used itn for the week). He managed to experience the fault and a further week down the line advised to replace the throttle pedal - but not guaranteed to work.

Fourth Time (current situation) - Had the car for over a week as couldnt find the fault nor had the ECU logged anything, again an extensive road test was done and am now being advised it 'COULD' be a faulty instrument cluster, not guaranteed to fix it and at a cost of £492 which (Evans Halshaw are not prepared to extend my warranty to, even though its the same fault as reported in week one of ownership!

Hopefully after speaking to the branch manager tomorrow something satisfactory will have happened. If not I'n not sure what I'll do, guess seek some sort of legal advice.

Third

I would write to the manager at Evans Halshaw stating, when you purchased the car and the dates when the faults occurred, when it was in the workshop for repair etc. Then state that the workshop are aware of the fault, but were unable to rectify it during the warranty period. Knowing there is a fault with the car that they have been unable to rectify the car is therefore unfit for purpose and that you are rejecting the car. If nothing else it will start some discussion.

Basically give them the option of a refund / replacement of fix the car at their costs.

Thanks Moley, Could be a good course of action regardless - I also have the DVD of the fault I made as proof which could come in handy. I'm going to tell the branch manager tomorrow when he calls me that I want to reject the car, I've honestly had enough of it, I'm sick and tired of it and am dissapointed by the guys at Evans Halshaw. Not once have I shouted or got arsey with them and gave them a few opportunities to sort it out, I need a reliable car for my wife and new son.

as a matter of interest does the car have traction control?

No I dont tihnk so its a 55 plate Focus C-Max 1.6 Zetec.

i'm guessing that it is a 1.6 diesel ?

if so , faulty EGR valves can cause the the reduced power concern, without a DTC

i have heard of faulty instrument clusters aswell , even wiring faults to the PCM

the Ford diagnostic equipment is ok , but not as good as some and really needs someone who knows what they are doing to find the fault, plus some faults can be caused by something totally unrelated but on the same network/CAN

I would say yes you have a case.

Generally if you buy a car with a warranty (new or second hand i think this applies to) then you should give reasonable notice to the garage and allow them to fix the fault which you have done.

If the fault keeps happening for some reason then you can reject the car and ask for a replacement/refund.

Get yourself down to your local trading standards office straight away, certainly before the 6 month period is up.

They will tell you that the garage should be given oppurtunity to repair the car before a refund is an option, they often give you sample letters to write to the garage, but what you need to do is put it in writing that they have one last opurtunity to repair the car and stand by the repair or you want a refund or replacement car.

Once the garage knows you are in contact with trading standards they will know they cannot fob you off any longer.

The sale of goods act is far more powerful than any warranty, and overrides any warranty you may have accepted. All warranties by law have to state "this warranty does not affect your statutory rights" If the warranty does not state this it is illegal.

This fault was obviously there when you bought the car, trading standards will help, dont let the dealer wriggle out of it, but dont delay any longer, get the letter into them.

An even better explanation!! ^^

Get yourself down to your local trading standards office straight away, certainly before the 6 month period is up.

They will tell you that the garage should be given oppurtunity to repair the car before a refund is an option, they often give you sample letters to write to the garage, but what you need to do is put it in writing that they have one last opurtunity to repair the car and stand by the repair or you want a refund or replacement car.

Once the garage knows you are in contact with trading standards they will know they cannot fob you off any longer.

The sale of goods act is far more powerful than any warranty, and overrides any warranty you may have accepted. All warranties by law have to state "this warranty does not affect your statutory rights" If the warranty does not state this it is illegal.

This fault was obviously there when you bought the car, trading standards will help, dont let the dealer wriggle out of it, but dont delay any longer, get the letter into them.

Agreed, except that the garage has had 4 shots at repairing the car; I don't think there's any reason to require another one.

i think you have a case to have the thing repaired at there cost,but not to be able to return the car , unless they deem the repair uneconimcal then a full refund will have to take place. but i think you will find they would offer another car first of equal value, if this is the case then they have fullfiled there legal obligations .

Thanks for all the advice, I will contact trading standards today - I have been trying to get in touch with the person I need to speak to since Saturday, today when trying to speak to him he has conveniently been out the office but apparently is back in an hour. We'll wait and see, meanwhile I'll get on the blower to trading standards and let them know whats going on. I'll update this later today.

John