When friends and family show me their new car (usually a small hatch or saloon) and I ask how it goes and handles I usually get the reply in the lines of "OK, but its not meant to be a sports car". I never can quite understand this logic - so what if its not a pure, hard sports car - it can still be a hoot to drive. Having been used to using worn Estelles in my early days of driving I knew that they were probably one of the slowest things on the road, but with a few deft gearchanges, a bit of steering wheel twirling and a good dose of revs I found myself catching up much bigger machines and having great fun with my driving. I had probably less than 40 BHP. So, when I hear people tell me that their 60-100 BHP machines are 'not sports cars' I feel like saying something. In my opinion the machine you drive should not affect your driving style in any real way - it is not the car that is not 'sports', but the driver who cannot be bothered to work at it.

If you can read the road, brake and use the engine at the right time and understand the car as closely as possible, then any car can be fun.

My Sister had a base model Toyota Starlet automatic - voted the stodgiest car around, but she made that machine go really well - certainly she had a grin on her face anyway after a few minutes of driving. Same when I used a base model Yugo - so noisy and crude, but it liked being taken by the scruff of the neck and giving its all.

So, no more excuses!

TH

I guess that 'back in the day', if you had 70 -100hp, then you were driving something a bit sporty. Nowadays with the headline figures that some companies are putting out - 400hp, 500hp etc - that people think anything less doesn't constitute a sports car.

I agree with you though, some of my most memorable driving moments have been in small, underpowered cars where you had to work every part of the car and yourself to make reasonably quick progress. The sense of achievement when you kept up with or even somehow beat a more powerful car was fantastic. The fact that the other driver probably wasn't even trying or aware of the duel taking place was irrelevant, you felt good.

That is missing from so many new cars that they can't feel like a sports car because unlike your Yugo, the occupants are so distanced from what's going on that the driver can't feel 'involved' in any way.

I've been looking around for a cheap car to get to work in for that very reason. A small, cheap tinny car would make me feel a bit more alive on a morning as the vRS is so effortless now that sometimes I long for my old Fiat Panda or 1.6 Capri back.

>129bhp is sporty.

On a more serious note in some respects I prefer driving a 54hp 1.1litre petrol engined car over mine purely because it matters more about how you brake and corner than how fast you go

Totally agree - enjoying a drive is about the driver not the car.

These days bhp seems to regarded as the benchmark for how good a car is...but a 600bhp Merc will need that much electronic interference to stop it from spinning its wheels that driver involvement will be diluted. Likewise, with more power comes higher speeds, which requires fatter tyres which then requires intrusive power steering - further diluting driver involvement.

So yes, we've got more power and are travelling faster, but are we really enjoying ourselves more?

Rob.

We're not allowed to enjoy ourselves, Rob. See Labour road transport policies for more details.

So yes, we've got more power and are travelling faster, but are we really enjoying ourselves more?

Rob.

I don't think so. If you remember the good old days or have worked your way up the ranks from £100 cars to a £16000 hot hatch then you'll appreciate this thread. If you have never driven anything other than a modern car then I don't think you'd know what we're on about.

You need 400hp now because your car weighs 6 tons after they've added all the safety gear.

My favourite car I've owned is still my 70bhp polo mk3 breadvan. Looked terrible, but driven right it could be fantastic fun!

Thanks for the input.

I have a Fabia vRS and when I first got it I was shocked at the surge of torque. With a small press of the throttle it went from 40-60+ in moments. It picks up speed so well that it is at the limit in a very short time. This 'advantage' is actually making me drive my 105 Estelle more and more.

Going from 20-60 compared:

Estelle 105:- in second gear, 2500 RPM, give it some welly - revs picking up niceley. Power rising now - 3500 RPM - coming onto cam - lovely sound - 4500 revs now - blaaaaaoooeeee - 35MPH - and into third. Down with the throttle - the engine getting stuck into it now - speed rising - hear the induction roar of both carb barrels wide open - engine singing - zeeeaaahhhh - 50MPH - and into top. Power less now but like a giant hand just pushing you forwards it just builds up. 60 reached and now just cruise with the engine settled.

Fabia vRS:- third gear - press and speed builds fast 30-45-60. All over too fast to really appreciate.

TH

I don't understand "it's not a sports car" either. Even if you don't habitually press on, sometimes you need to, or misjudge a corner and need to know what's going to happen!

The 2 best cars I've ever owned were my old ZX Elation (1.4 with 175/65R14s so terrific handling and huge grip for the day and its power) and my present Octy (Elegance TDi with massive grip and torque; there are places on the A87 where the ZX needed brakes, but the Octy swings round at 60 [and I'd not care to go any faster; you're pushing close to the vanishing point as it is]).

Because sports cars are desirable and that's what most people are concerned with. Looks, brand, image and status. How it drives falls a long way down most people's car shopping list. "Its no sports car" is a submissive response to account for having to buy a run of the mill car rather than what anyone would really want and often actually not caring about driving.

Another story from the ZX days:-

We had a desperately cold, wet and windy June day. Going home from doing my supermarket shop (look it's 6 miles each way, so walking is not an option) I overtook an MG Midget. I had the realisation that not only was I warmer, drier and going faster than the couple in the Midget, but I was having more fun too going by their expressions!

To be fair though, the Estelle was always a bit of a sweet handling car, I still miss my 120LSE.

I do get where you're coming from (although 6 weeks ago I'd have thought you were on crack) as I've got myself a Felicia 1.3 as a runabout. I've had to learn how to drive again, I can't simply just rely on the engine, chassis and brakes of my Octy vRS to get me around corners I've got to drive the car instead of simply turning the wheel.

About 10 years ago i had a 3dr Seat Ibiza Mk1F (Facelifted) 1.2i which had 70bhp(system porsche engine) weight about 900kg..... not the best handling car ive had ill admit but it was fun to hustle over twisty roads with its transverse leaf spring rear axle.... forward 10 years and my fabia with 100bhp weighing 1200kg over same roads doesnt feel as much fun, but ive grown up and the car is more grown up i guess.....

My MX-5 only has 158BHP, and it is meant to be a sports car!

It's all you need in such a lightweight chuckable car though. BHP isn't what it's all about.

Some of my best drives from the early years were in 2CV's. 29bhp and very little torque, but I can't remember the number of times that we were faster in the 2cv than many more modern cars... driving it quickly involved lots of planning, keeping speed through corners and winding it up for hills. But what fun.... The Roomster and vrS both make driving so much easier... (almost) less planning for overtaking, cornering speeds are higher and point-to-point they are obviously quicker. However, the 2cv's were great for not having accidents... being surrounded by rust and paper thin steel with no crash protection made you thing about the consequenses of your actions. Only the vrs is a sports car, but sporty driving is a different thing altogether.........

i still love the old skool mk2 golf gti's, they aren't powerful weighing in at 114bhp but i still find them great fun to drive... you cant beat the smell of an old car too!

I drove a Fiesta 1.4 Zetec a few years back. Only had 85BHP but I loved the handling.

so chuckable, grippy it was a hoot to drive.

I like to enjoy whatever car I drive. My Favorit "is no sports car" but it's a hoot to drive so was my Felicia.

mavis is fun.

I've borrowed my Dads Fiat Seicento a couple of times this week, and thats a lot of Fun! 54bhp :-) Its the Schumacher version, so is a bit lower than standard and has slightly shorter gearing - he's also had a stainless system fitted. Basically, it sounds great, 0-30ish is one of the fastest cars around - I kid you not! It drives like a go-cart and is so much fun because of it....

Define 'Sports' though...

Is it something that's quick, fun or is it about image? Maybe a combination of those 3 things?

Just thinking back to my years behind the wheel of a MG BGT

I get more fun driving my girlfriend's 1.2 Corsa around than driving the Turbo'd A4

It's more of a challenge keeping the momentum up.

; there are places on the A87 where the ZX needed brakes, but the Octy swings round at 60 [and I'd not care to go any faster; you're pushing close to the vanishing point as it is]).

Take it you don't mean mainland A87, Ken .

And one of the most fun cars I driven - least power ,I'd bet was the old (this one was ancient ) Fiat 500 - where the starter was a lever that pulled the contact across the solenoid ( or Mrs V ended up bumping ,whilst I pushed)

Mind you ,I did like the XR2 I had (for a short spell) as a company car due to a mix-up with the hire people ..

And the least - Ford Zodiac Executive Auto ( in the 70's power galore )

:)I like this thread. So many people don't understand how my slow Skodas are deemed by me to be a sporty drive.

My Rapid 136 is far from Rapid, but give it a twisty road to play on and it's a surprisingly competent, sporty drive. You have to use throttle to power out of the bend if you're pressing on a bit or you'll be in the ditch. If there's too much understeer simply lift off a bit and the car will correct itself, if there's too much oversteer floor the throttle. You can scare yourself silly, or you can be grinning like a Cheshire cat after driving enthusiastically on a twisty road in a RWD Skoda. I don't get anything like as much enjoyment or the "sporty feel" driving modern FWD cars on twisty roads, even though they are faster and generally more competent.

Take it you don't mean mainland A87, Ken .

I could never quite get round those bends at the Clounie Inn at 60 until I got the Octy, and put it on T1-Rs.