Valeting

[will_raymo2000]

Hey guys,

Just a quick question for y'all!

Thinking of setting up a Home valet service with a friend for the summer hols into our gap years. Basically we would go to peoples houses at a time that suited them and provide a base package including a warm wash/wax followed by full chamois/drying. Touching up small scratches as and when with T-Cut or equivalent. We would then apply tyre dressing and bumper polish for plastic trim. We would then use upholstery shampoo/cleaner on the carpets and mats after a full vacuum and polish. Cleaning out the ash tray etc. Finishing up by using window polish on the inside and outside windows & windscreens.

That would be the base package with optional paid extras such as a hand applied wax, autoglym polish, alloy wheel sealant, leather cleaner.

How much would you pay for this service? (if you didn't wash the cars yourselves)

A lot of people have said why aren't we pricing cheaper than the Polish roadside and car park valets but I believe that people would be willing to pay a premium for us to come to their house at a convinient time for them and use high quality products to achieve a high quality finish.

Any input is appreciated!

Thanks

[devonutopia]

Base package sounds like a lot of work so £15-£20 seems fine if it's a real good job. You might want to consider the use of lambswool mitts for washing, and microfibre cloths for drying too. More efficient and better for the paintwork.

[will_raymo2000]

We have a couple of microfibres along with a chamois and a water blade as well to get the majority of the water off the big panels.

We thought of £20 as a price for the above as we will probably need £3/4 to cover petrol costs of travelling to the clients house.

Luckily we have vacuum and karcher pressure washer already so the only real costs are of the sprays and cloths we need.

[mannyo]

Dont use a water blade, if you get a piece of dirt trapped as you are drying the car you will drag it across your customers car causing a scratch. it may not be an issue with your own car, but a customer could try and claim for the damage from you.

[will_raymo2000]

Dont use a water blade, if you get a piece of dirt trapped as you are drying the car you will drag it across your customers car causing a scratch. it may not be an issue with your own car, but a customer could try and claim for the damage from you.

This is very true. In that case I think I will stick to using cloths!

In relation to the claiming for damage comment.. I was looking on a Lloyds TSB Business insurance site earlier and for Car Valeting with £1million public liability insurance it was £15 per month. This may be very useful should someone claim against us for damage that may or may not have been caused by our washing

[ryand]

Yep dont use a blade, better off getting a waffle weave drying towel.

[devonutopia]

Although really, before drying, the car should be thoroughly rinsed again with clean water to ensure there is no dirt. However, I would still use the microfibre cloth alone. It actually works like a water blade if you run it along a surface quick enough.

£15 a month sounds cheap.

[ChrisCrashTM]

go on detailing world they are one massive bank of knowledge on all aspects of valeting and detailing (Y)

[Babs]

£0 because the suggested "wash" would damage my paint

[ryand]

go on detailing world they are one massive bank of knowledge on all aspects of valeting and detailing (Y)

sure is a bottomless pit of information which in turn damages your wallet! all good though.

[NFox]

sure is a bottomless pit of information which in turn damages your wallet! all good though.

haha this is so true!

[Cleandetail]

if am going to be honest, Id suggest buying some quality equipment/tools, and have a read about the do's and don'ts as there is alot out there that just damagers your car, Like wheel acid (wonder wheels). If your not 100% sure what the best things and best ways to do valeting is, ad Suggest not really going into it. I had a years training with Honda before i started. Just so i made sure i was 1 step better than most.

But should you wish to start up, i'll be more than happy to give you advice.

All the best

Nick

[wja96]

In relation to the claiming for damage comment.. I was looking on a Lloyds TSB Business insurance site earlier and for Car Valeting with £1million public liability insurance it was £15 per month. This may be very useful should someone claim against us for damage that may or may not have been caused by our washing

That's just your public liability insurance and it's really for places that have workshops eg. if someone tripped over a cable or something. It wouldn't cover you at a customer's premises and it certainly wouldn't cover claims against you for negligence/damage to cars in the course of your work.

You will also need employers liability insurance, and then you'll need to figure out how you're going to declare your earnings for tax purposes.

Setting up a 'scratch' company is highly likely to cost you a fortune and offset the likely potential income for the first 3-6 months unfortunately.

Depending on how many of you there are then £20 for a wash and polish won't go very far.

There are 2 of you. So let's say you can do 3 cars a day. That's realistic given that you won't get any passing trade, it will all have to be booked in and travelled to and you're talking about hand-polishing cars. I reckon you're looking at 2-3 hours work per vehicle. So I'm thinking £60 a day between you, £210 a week each, working 7 days or £150 working 5 days. Take off £25 each for fuel, £20 a week for consumables etc, pay the NI and tax and you're basically busy fools.You're not far away from being better off registering as unemployed.

And what will you do if it rains?

A proper valet will set you back £200+ and it will take 2 people all day to do a car, maybe longer if it's bad. And they usually have a water-proof tent like thing to work under when it rains.

Sorry to be negative, but this plan just doesn't make financial sense.

[will_raymo2000]

That's just your public liability insurance and it's really for places that have workshops eg. if someone tripped over a cable or something. It wouldn't cover you at a customer's premises and it certainly wouldn't cover claims against you for negligence/damage to cars in the course of your work.

You will also need employers liability insurance, and then you'll need to figure out how you're going to declare your earnings for tax purposes.

Setting up a 'scratch' company is highly likely to cost you a fortune and offset the likely potential income for the first 3-6 months unfortunately.

Depending on how many of you there are then £20 for a wash and polish won't go very far.

There are 2 of you. So let's say you can do 3 cars a day. That's realistic given that you won't get any passing trade, it will all have to be booked in and travelled to and you're talking about hand-polishing cars. I reckon you're looking at 2-3 hours work per vehicle. So I'm thinking £60 a day between you, £210 a week each, working 7 days or £150 working 5 days. Take off £25 each for fuel, £20 a week for consumables etc, pay the NI and tax and you're basically busy fools.You're not far away from being better off registering as unemployed.

And what will you do if it rains?

A proper valet will set you back £200+ and it will take 2 people all day to do a car, maybe longer if it's bad. And they usually have a water-proof tent like thing to work under when it rains.

Sorry to be negative, but this plan just doesn't make financial sense.

With regards to insurance, I have again just gone through the Lloyds TSB business insurance questionnaire and answered the question.. Would you require insurance to damage done to customers property whilst working? and it still comes to £15.67 a month.

Financially speaking I can see what you are saying but this is a relatively low financial risk for us, living with parents and intending on running it out of small cars. Hence low overheads. Declaring incomes shouldn't be a problem as we are almost certainly not going to be going over the personal allowance. We are going to be running this over the summer and possibly carry on into next year if we do get customers so I will reassess the business at the end of August.

Even if the business completely fails it will still be a good thing for my CV as I wish to go into Business Management in the future and this experience will be useful either way.

Thanks for your input

[wja96]

With regards to insurance, I have again just gone through the Lloyds TSB business insurance questionnaire and answered the question.. Would you require insurance to damage done to customers property whilst working? and it still comes to £15.67 a month. [/Quote]

It's VERY confusing. I think they do it on purpose to suck people in. Please, phone them up and tell them what you are planning to do. You'll be put through to a specialist broker who will quote you for YOUR business. You'll need at least 3 policies - Public Liability, Employers Liability and Indemnity. The first two are legal requirements and cover your customers, you and the public against an accident while you are working, the third is optional and covers damaging your customers property because you did a bad job. Public Liability is cheap because you have to have it, and they have to offer it. Employers liability is much more expensive because people do stupid things at work and tend to sue their employers when it happens. You are extremely unlikely to be offered indemnity insurance because you have no 'professional' experience, so your risk loading is very high.

Financially speaking I can see what you are saying but this is a relatively low financial risk for us, living with parents and intending on running it out of small cars. Hence low overheads. Declaring incomes shouldn't be a problem as we are almost certainly not going to be going over the personal allowance. We are going to be running this over the summer and possibly carry on into next year if we do get customers so I will reassess the business at the end of August.[/Quote]

There is basically zero financial risk as you shouldn't have any borrowings at all, but what you are risking is making yourself do lots of work for less than the minimum wage. Think about it - the minimum wage would put you over the personal allowance in 5 months and you don't think you'll get that over the summer? If you are not going to make money out of it then why bother?

Even if the business completely fails it will still be a good thing for my CV as I wish to go into Business Management in the future and this experience will be useful either way.

You need to do a business plan. Make up a spreadsheet and work out what it's all going to cost you and what the best and worst expected returns are and you'll find that it almost certainly doesn't add up. It sounds negative, and it may well be, but I've done rough calculations and I reckon you need to take at least £60 a car for the listed service above before you start to make more than the minimum wage.

[will_raymo2000]

It's VERY confusing. I think they do it on purpose to suck people in. Please, phone them up and tell them what you are planning to do. You'll be put through to a specialist broker who will quote you for YOUR business. You'll need at least 3 policies - Public Liability, Employers Liability and Indemnity. The first two are legal requirements and cover your customers, you and the public against an accident while you are working, the third is optional and covers damaging your customers property because you did a bad job. Public Liability is cheap because you have to have it, and they have to offer it. Employers liability is much more expensive because people do stupid things at work and tend to sue their employers when it happens. You are extremely unlikely to be offered indemnity insurance because you have no 'professional' experience, so your risk loading is very high.

There is basically zero financial risk as you shouldn't have any borrowings at all, but what you are risking is making yourself do lots of work for less than the minimum wage. Think about it - the minimum wage would put you over the personal allowance in 5 months and you don't think you'll get that over the summer? If you are not going to make money out of it then why bother?

You need to do a business plan. Make up a spreadsheet and work out what it's all going to cost you and what the best and worst expected returns are and you'll find that it almost certainly doesn't add up. It sounds negative, and it may well be, but I've done rough calculations and I reckon you need to take at least £60 a car for the listed service above before you start to make more than the minimum wage.

http://www.coverzones.com/car-valeting-insurance/:

• Public Liability Insurance for car valeting: This covers you against a claim from members of the public – or a customer – for death, bodily injury or damage to their property, which in your case would include that top of the range Aston DB9 or Porsche 911. The extent of the car valeting cover you need depends on your business and the types of vehicle you are working on: £1m – £5m cover is the usual level of cover.

I'm not trying to argue here but it seems every website I check says that is all we need. We aren't going to be employing anyone so I don't believe we need employers liability but then again I may be wrong.

Anyway thanks for the advice and I will let you know how we get on!

[wja96]

I'm not trying to argue here but it seems every website I check says that is all we need. We aren't going to be employing anyone so I don't believe we need employers liability but then again I may be wrong.

Anyway thanks for the advice and I will let you know how we get on!

I'm genuinely not trying to argue either, just pass on some experience. Setting up any business is a nightmare. Most businesses fold in the first 6 months because the people behind them have unrealistic expectations.

So did you read the two paragraphs below the one you quoted?

You quoted;

• Public Liability Insurance for car valeting: This covers you against a claim from members of the public – or a customer – for death, bodily injury or damage to their property, which in your case would include that top of the range Aston DB9 or Porsche 911. The extent of the car valeting cover you need depends on your business and the types of vehicle you are working on: £1m – £5m cover is the usual level of cover.

And immediately beneath that is this;

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• Employers Liability Insurance for car valeting: If you employ anyone, even on a casual basis you must have this cover by law. Employers Liability Insurance covers you so you can pay compensation for death or injury caused to any of your employees whilst they are carrying out business for you, whether that be at your place of business or whilst mobile valeting. Legally, you must have £5m of cover at least.

• Professional Indemnity Insurance: If you recommend a course of action to a customer – perhaps to fit a new sunroof or rework an interior –¬ and it goes wrong, they can sue you. This insurance will cover you for any liabilities.

If what you are saying is correct, why would they bother to offer indemnity insurance? One covers damage you do by mistake, the other covers damage you do on purpose. Because you are offering a service, which includes recommending products and methods, you will need indemnity insurance.

And I'm afraid you and your friend are 'employees' - if you hurt yourself while you are working, this will help ensure you can still go to Uni, even if it's in a wheelchair.

Please call someone for some advice and a proper quote.