HELP!!! White smoke from exhaust...

[150HP&counting]

but not all the time, and usually only after been in heavy traffic or been driving for at least 30mins ish... when idling

First noticed Tuesday driving through sheff... got stuck with lots of stop start... noticed smoke from rear... but then driving away it stopped (put this down to the old nissan behind me at the time) as the next set of lights i couldnt see any at all behind...

got home on this journey after about 40mins and again no smoke from exhaust :confused:

then last night... started up fine (no loss of power throughout any of this btw!) no smoke... 15 min drive to petrol station... still fine... 15min drive to drop gf off.... sat idlign for maybe 5 mins.... yep.. smoke started, thats when i though $hite it was me after all on tuesday :(

drove home 5 mins max... jumps out, goes to rear no smoke... turns engine off (bearing in mind its dark) pops bonnet, nothing i could see looked wrong.

I'd checked oil on tues lunch at work and that was half way between min and max on dipstick, so i know thats ok... havent checked coolant level though yet (currently at work without car)

Any ideas :( i have searched and some of the things i found were a bit :eek:

Phoned jbs they seemed to think... could be head gasket, could be o-stem seals :confused: i think he said cant remember now.

be grateful for any advice... or even if i'm ok ish to drive

[chicken_eyebrow]

First thing is to check and see if it's rapidly losing coolant.

It could be the head gasket, or IIRC some people have lost coolant in the past because of a failure of the manifold gasket.

[Edit: forget the manifold gasket thing, that was on Rovers ]

[150HP&counting]

cheers mate will check coolant level when i get home later this afternoon... am sure tuesday i glanced and couldnt notice it being low... but will check properly... the car wasnt used for all of wednesday apart from last ting 11pm... from journey home tues @ 5pm (40mins ish)

[Leeboy]

Might I suggest turbo? I was speaking with JKM regarding symptons of worn oil seals on a turbo (thinking this could be the problem with my oil consumption issues). Jim described turbo trouble as being most apparent when the engine has been idling (as per heavy traffic) and oil is escaping into the exhaust manifold. As soon as you then use some accelerator, the increase in exhaust gas volume results in a smokey car. Not sure what colour smoke you should expect out of the exhaust pipes, but I'm sure I've seen white smoke out of the back of turbo-ed cars. I'm sure someone will confirm....

If turbo, find yourself something 2nd hand and I'd have thought its probably cheaper in terms of labour compared with head gasket?

[insanity]

white smoke means usually turbo fault

[150HP&counting]

maybe its time to go upgrade turbo route then if it turns out to be the case... might as well have a positive out of all this lmao.... will update on coolant later... and also got a mechanic friend of my sisters popping to have a quick look at half 7 tonight... see if he can shed any light on it

should i not have a power loss issue by the way...??? or is this the early signs of the turbo going type thing

[150HP&counting]

update:

Just checked

• coolant level - ok *and tbh thinking about it now exactly where i remember its always been before ie. just below the ridge on the header tank when looking from front, and just above the top line on tank
  
• signs of creamy scum in lid of coolant header - none at all, coolant nice pinky colour actually, as though fresh
  
• signs of creamy scum in lid of oil cap - again no sign at all
  
• level of oil - exactly same as on tuesday when i checked
  

started engine, no problems starting, and yes to begin with got the slightest amount of faint white smoke from exhaust... this was when revs at 1250 (at time sec air pump kicks in i guess?) as soon as the revs dropped slowly down to 750 (which is probably a matter of 20 seconds at most) the small amount smoke was completely gone... what little there was anyway.

Inside of exhaust quite covered with sooty type stuff lol even though not long ago cleaned the internal chamber out.. couple weeks

[AwesomeSarah]

Hey , you

Just been disscussing you with my Mark

He says best check head gasket , or the other possibility is the oil cooler

So you should be OK with the turbo , sorry if that was going to be your next mod on the big turbo......

Turbo probs is blue smoke (burning oil) on tickover

White smoke is water in the intake side

But as the head gaskets are NOT common , then he is putting his money on the oil cooler

Sarah (and my Mark , AKA Fat Boy Slim)

[150HP&counting]

ermmmm what i thought was white smoke.... turns out after a friend of my sisters has just taken a look... is burning some oil.

Went for a 20 minute drive 60mph roads and side roads.... his diagnosis after we got back... letting it idle for a few mins and thats when it started to smoke a little... then got gradually more....

he rubbed his fingers into the smoke and said yep thats burning a little bit of oil definately, not steam from water or condensation... also said definately not head gasket, confirming my checks before for the creamyness lol

although said its not causing it to missfire, and its not using a lot of oil either... basically said get it to where i usually take it as they will be use to diagnosing if it is the turbo... which is basically what i think he was trying to say without giving me the bad news

[150HP&counting]

what are we looking at then if its what has been suggested and turbo seals?

should i spend the extra and get something out of it by going more powerful turbo, or is there going to be more to it than just the turbo to sort anyway...

help and advice welcomed trying to look at this positively.... but when ive only had it 9 months i aint easy tbh

[oggy]

If Its any consolation mine Is doing the same:rotz:

I noticed the problem while It was on the ramps for the MOT.

Its clear on tickover, but when you rev It blue white smoke comes out, but clears.

The oil has dropped down the dipstick level by half In the last month. I was told by JBS after they had the car on the ramps to diagnose the problem that It is most probably the valve stem oil seals, but after talking to alot of people in the know how on these engines most, infact nearly all say It will be probably the turbo seals as they are the weaker link:confused:

[150HP&counting]

If Its any consolation mine Is doing the same:rotz:

I noticed the problem while It was on the ramps for the MOT.

Its clear on tickover, but when you rev It blue white smoke comes out, but clears.

The oil has dropped down the dipstick level by half In the last month. I was told by JBS after they had the car on the ramps to diagnose the problem that It is most probably the valve stem oil seals, but after talking to alot of people in the know how on these engines most, infact nearly all say It will be probably the turbo seals as they are the weaker link:confused:

not a great feeling is it mate... and yes i too go to jbs... so good chance we'll be bumping into each other sometime soon and then soon after emptying our wallets at the jbs counter lol

i do know for quite a while after i got car oil wasnt being used at all... and i'll hold my hand up and say it has been sometime since last checked before tues and it did suprise me a little that the dispstick was showing at half max just like yourself... i didnt think that too bad over the full 9 months but dont know over how long its taken to dip to hlf tho :(

have you got it booked in to resolve yet then? are you still driving it... thats my biggest fear, causing more issues by driving still:confused:

[oggy]

I'm still driving It at the moment, but I would like It resolved soon. I won't be using JBS though as they have quoted me over £1k to change the valve stem oil seals, If at fault, which I can have It done at a fraction of the price else where. I've been talking to Ross at unit18 about the issue.

If It Is the turbo, I aint got a clue what to do:confused: A part of me would like something bigger, but the other part wants to do the sensible option & stay standard.

Have you got a CC map on at all from JBS?

[RobClubley]

Changing the stem seals on my 5 cylinder Audi a few years ago cost about 600 quid :eek:

It ran beautifully afterwards despite having 150k on the clock.

[150HP&counting]

I'm still driving It at the moment, but I would like It resolved soon. I won't be using JBS though as they have quoted me over £1k to change the valve stem oil seals, If at fault, which I can have It done at a fraction of the price else where. I've been talking to Ross at unit18 about the issue.

If It Is the turbo, I aint got a clue what to do:confused: A part of me would like something bigger, but the other part wants to do the sensible option & stay standard.

Have you got a CC map on at all from JBS?

Ouch.. thats an hefty price tag for the stem seals :(

the reason why am thinking of something slightly bigger turbo wise (if it is that) is probably coz the cost extra to a new standard one anyway... may not be that much more and at least then you have a + out of all this.

I've drove to work this morning in it... no smoke until it started idling after i pulled up in car park, and even then not a lot *sigh

No CC map on, but was informed by jbs that there had been some type of map put on, but wasnt stamped, this was without my knowledge when i bought it a big part of me wonders if indeed its that which has caused these issues tbh

BTW this car has only done 58K

[oggy]

Mark (sarah's fella) at MTK technology has quoted me a cracking price on a brand new K03s turbo If I found mine was faulty, but If It comes to this, I'm wondering If Its worth going for a bigger turbo as well, so I don't have to run the unit near the limits. I can then reduce the boost, but keep the BHP similar to what I have supposed to have now, with the option of increasing the BHP If I get bored.

I will have to cross this bridge If things go down this route.

[150HP&counting]

Mark (sarah's fella) at MTK technology has quoted me a cracking price on a brand new K03s turbo If I found mine was faulty, but If It comes to this, I'm wondering If Its worth going for a bigger turbo as well, so I don't have to run the unit near the limits. I can then reduce the boost, but keep the BHP similar to what I have supposed to have now, with the option of increasing the BHP If I get bored.

I will have to cross this bridge If things go down this route.

cheers for the heads up (sarah has been ace on Pm about things )

yeah i know what you mean though... and its something i did have in mind at some point anyhow... think its something about a fast skoda... that still puts a smile on my face when other marques are shocked when they cant get past lol

so just to confirm... i shouldnt be in an overly rush about this to get it sorted... unless of course the oil is being lost BIG style regularly

[bengie]

TD do a hybrid K04 to fit a K03 manifold, good for upto 300bhp. stick this on along with S3 injectors and the appropriate map and you should get reasonable power although don't expect the 300bhp mark unless you change the lot(maf, fmic, inlet etc etc). the turbo is 1k+vat last time i checked

[oggy]

The quote from Turbo Dynamics was MD349- stage1 hybrid turbo 240-250bhp max boost 18-20psi £975+vat & the MD445- stage2 hybrid turbo 280-300bhp max boost 24-26psi £1325+vat.

The quote from JBS for the JBS04 hybrid turbo which Is the same spec turbo of the TD stage2 turbo (if not the same unit) was £1500.

If the stage2 turbos were £1k I would have jumped for one, but I'm going to see what else Is available on the market for that price. I may even consider doing the K04 turbo conversion.

Edited 24 July, 2009 by Oggy

[bengie]

what i meant was 1k+vat for the turbo, that wasn't fitted or anything.

unless you can get it cheap and do it yourself i can't really see it being worthwhile as the cost of paying someone to do it isn't worth the power gain.

[oggy]

Bengie, the price for the above turbo's that I quoted from TD & JBS are for the units only. Fitting of those would obviously be extra:(

[bengie]

thats odd, when mine blew up a couple years ago thats what they quoted me. things must have changed!

[bengie]

just for the record a gt28 is around £700 give or take, a cheap ebay cast manifold is around £100-£150 and a good manifold is nearly a grand all including vat so would you spend over £1500 on just a turbo when for a couple hundred quid more you can have an equal length tubular manifold and gt28? i know what i'd do

[150HP&counting]

JBS confirmed after various diagnostics (compression test, checked intercooler pipework, and the turbo itself) that it is the turbo that is failing.

Quote for like for like KO3/s (not sure which it is?)

was £1080 inc of fitting etc

had what is quite a good quote for the JBS04 ( as i asked about having 60K service and cambelt done at same time to see what they could do for price), and basically i was saving by around £300 mark

as i'd previously had a quote for just the JBS04 stage 1 (240bhp apparently, with upto 300 on offer if required with extra work obviously) upgrade on its own and that was £2450 ish without the above mentioned cam and service...

decisions decisions... mates have said bodge and sell