A good tes for those of you with Sky HD or Virgin's version, would be tomorrow's new BBC series, Life. Looks just the thing for those of you lucky beggars with HD! Not me unfortunately......yet!

A good tes for those of you with Sky HD or Virgin's version, would be tomorrow's new BBC series, Life. Looks just the thing for those of you lucky beggars with HD! Not me unfortunately......yet!

Life is on tonight on BBC HD. Thanks for the heads up:thumbup:

Life is on tonight on BBC HD. Thanks for the heads up:thumbup:

Ooops, you are correct Madame:P:O!

Boxes currently being installed are, Pace, Amstrad or Samsung. The Amstrad has a bit of a bad track record and currently has a software fault which means the contrast setting is currently set to high and not adjustable on the box.

And let's face it, if that's the only fault it sounds like the best of the bunch Tbh, the "default" contrast setting seems spot on with my tele and I don't think even if I could adjust it I'd bother...

Chris

And let's face it, if that's the only fault it sounds like the best of the bunch Tbh, the "default" contrast setting seems spot on with my tele and I don't think even if I could adjust it I'd bother...

Chris

I’d agree. Perhaps some TVs with different processing engines will suffer more, but I am happy with my contrast output. My plasma has an excellent real world contrast ratio and quite often plasmas are not as bright as LCDs so maybes that helps to crush things a little as well.

Bandwidth is becoming such an issue in broadcasting I don't know why some channels bother. I watched Ghost Rider yesterday on Channel 5 and the artifacting was so bad you couldn't even read the Ch5 logo at several points. Presumably the Mux was carrying a lot of other active content but even so it was like watching You Tube. Even BBC1 (a fixed bandwidth channel) doesn't look too hot these days.

This is sort of worrying. Am I to understand from this that potentially, far from improving my viewing experience, moving to a large high quality plasma screen will reveal deficiencies in the non HD programming making my old 32" crt a better bet?

To be honest, HD isn't really a problem on Sky. Get a proper HD programme, and it looks stunning. You have to compare it back to back with Bluray to really notice.

That said, the worst problem with Sky HD, is how rubbish SD looks in comparison.

Im noticing more often that the minor channels are getting worse and worse quality. I watch a lot of E4 and Dave, and the Macroblocking on them is ridiculous!

Must admit I have seldom seen it with the CRT on cable. Could it be a Sky problem?

Chris

I hate Sky with a passion.

My parents have been a customer for about 15 years. Back in the days before the EPG...

Now my Mum did fancy upgrading to Sky+, not HD, just Sky+.

So I rang up for her, asking whether as a loyal customer we could get the Sky+ box for the "new customers" price of £49 and free installation.

No they said, £149 + installation. Thanks Sky.

We've now cut our package down to £29 a month and as soon as Freeview becomes availiable we are sacking it off and buying a Freeview+ box.

I was in Uni for 3 years and never missed Sky one bit, Freeview perfectly fine.

Virgin Media are no better. On their website, they advertise the V+ HD box installed for £75, but when you phone up to book the change, they want to charge you £100 as an existing long term customer. This was one reason that I am now looking at Sky.

Chris

This is sort of worrying. Am I to understand from this that potentially, far from improving my viewing experience, moving to a large high quality plasma screen will reveal deficiencies in the non HD programming making my old 32" crt a better bet?

Without putting too fine a point on it…………yes! One of the troubles with modern telly is they have such high potential definition. I am not going to get into the LCD v Plasma argument, but I do think it is a bit like the HiFi dilemma that sometimes arises. I.e. you should always have the best quality gear at the

source. People sometimes buy brilliant speakers and wonder why they sound rubbish. It can be because they have put them on a poor amplifier and that in turn is being fed from a rubbish CD player/turntable. It should be the other way round in quality terms.

Freeview is truly appalling at the minute and everyone who has bought a big screen tv is now finding this out. HD sources are necessary just to get back to the quality we had with a good live PAL broadcast signal (well not quite, but a good PAL picture is an excellent image in many ways). The government should have put constraints on the broadcasters to stop too many channels on these Mux’s. In a few years time, we will probably have to buy new DAB+ radios to replace the DAB ones that will not work once the standard DAB signal is turned off. It is several years away, but it shows the government got it wrong there too.

I would not worry if you go to SKY HD though as the picture quality on HD is pretty good and even SD shows on the Channel 4 HD channel look better than the Freeview simulcast ones (Ice Cold in Alice did this afternoon )

Virgin quailty is crap IMO. Siter has it, and it's so blocky.

SD sky looks fine to me on my 32" Samsung LCD.

Without putting too fine a point on it…………yes! One of the troubles with modern telly is they have such high potential definition. I am not going to get into the LCD v Plasma argument, but I do think it is a bit like the HiFi dilemma that sometimes arises. I.e. you should always have the best quality gear at the

source. People sometimes buy brilliant speakers and wonder why they sound rubbish. It can be because they have put them on a poor amplifier and that in turn is being fed from a rubbish CD player/turntable. It should be the other way round in quality terms.

Freeview is truly appalling at the minute and everyone who has bought a big screen tv is now finding this out. HD sources are necessary just to get back to the quality we had with a good live PAL broadcast signal (well not quite, but a good PAL picture is an excellent image in many ways). The government should have put constraints on the broadcasters to stop too many channels on these Mux’s. In a few years time, we will probably have to buy new DAB+ radios to replace the DAB ones that will not work once the standard DAB signal is turned off. It is several years away, but it shows the government got it wrong there too.

I would not worry if you go to SKY HD though as the picture quality on HD is pretty good and even SD shows on the Channel 4 HD channel look better than the Freeview simulcast ones (Ice Cold in Alice did this afternoon )

LCD vs plasma is a non starter for me. I have a good quality large CRT and so far I have never seen a LCD that comes even close to the image quality of the CRT once the image is moving. My old Samsung Syncmaster 1200NF monitor broke a few years ago and I now have a LCD (a fast one at that) on the computer. It is excellent for typing, but shocking for movies. One of the particularly annoying things for me with LCD is the shimmer it puts on faces as they move. Simply unacceptable. The Panasonic Plasma screen that I am after is the best affordable one I have seen to date (and I have looked at a lot). Motion is smooth and even motor racing looks good on it. A Kuro would be nice, but 1, I cannot afford it, 2, they stopped doing plasmas recently so I am told.

As for system hierarchy, I have always stayed with the view that the source cost around double the amp, cost around double the speakers in audio, but recent innovations in manufacturing can distort that to an extent. SISO still applies.

Tried DAB, sounds carp, so wont be buying a DAB tuner just yet.

It appears that the key problem is that unregulated, and run for profit, the standard of broadcast is going to continue to drop. In a world where many people think MP3 sounds good, not enough people will miss the good quality of previous times. The LCD screen is another area where this works against quality. So poor is the viewing panel, the majority of problems with the broadcast are at least partially masked. It will be a sad day when the astounding quality of a live Radio 3 broadcast in all its uncompressed glory is gone. Never mind the quality, feel the width, as they say.

I was in Currys the other day and the sales guy was trying to show off what HD can do on a medium sized LCD. He thought it was excellent and did not look too pleased when I told him that it was shockingly poor by comparison to a PAL signal on my CRT.

I think I am going to head in the direction of Sky for the large number of HD channels (particularly the movies and documentary stuff). I know I will lose broadband performance as my VM service is super fast, but the Sky service will cost less than my fully loaded VM package anyway.

We have an excellent view of the correct patch of space from my house, so that should be OK. Biggest worry at the moment is timing. If I cancel VM and Sky mess me about for install, I am shafted as I depend heavily on my email.

Chris

LCD vs plasma is a non starter for me. I have a good quality large CRT and so far I have never seen a LCD that comes even close to the image quality of the CRT once the image is moving. My old Samsung Syncmaster 1200NF monitor broke a few years ago and I now have a LCD (a fast one at that) on the computer. It is excellent for typing, but shocking for movies. One of the particularly annoying things for me with LCD is the shimmer it puts on faces as they move. Simply unacceptable. The Panasonic Plasma screen that I am after is the best affordable one I have seen to date (and I have looked at a lot). Motion is smooth and even motor racing looks good on it. A Kuro would be nice, but 1, I cannot afford it, 2, they stopped doing plasmas recently so I am told.

As for system hierarchy, I have always stayed with the view that the source cost around double the amp, cost around double the speakers in audio, but recent innovations in manufacturing can distort that to an extent. SISO still applies.

Tried DAB, sounds carp, so wont be buying a DAB tuner just yet.

It appears that the key problem is that unregulated, and run for profit, the standard of broadcast is going to continue to drop. In a world where many people think MP3 sounds good, not enough people will miss the good quality of previous times. The LCD screen is another area where this works against quality. So poor is the viewing panel, the majority of problems with the broadcast are at least partially masked. It will be a sad day when the astounding quality of a live Radio 3 broadcast in all its uncompressed glory is gone. Never mind the quality, feel the width, as they say.

I was in Currys the other day and the sales guy was trying to show off what HD can do on a medium sized LCD. He thought it was excellent and did not look too pleased when I told him that it was shockingly poor by comparison to a PAL signal on my CRT.

I think I am going to head in the direction of Sky for the large number of HD channels (particularly the movies and documentary stuff). I know I will lose broadband performance as my VM service is super fast, but the Sky service will cost less than my fully loaded VM package anyway.

We have an excellent view of the correct patch of space from my house, so that should be OK. Biggest worry at the moment is timing. If I cancel VM and Sky mess me about for install, I am shafted as I depend heavily on my email.

Chris

Agree with you about the lovely CRTs and LCD being poor for movies (generalisation ). I’m lucky enough to have a small Kuro and love it to bits. As for DAB, I think DAB+ will be along in 2011 so it might be worth checking that out when it comes. Should sound like they promised the original DAB would when it came out. In it’s defiense I have to say my mum can’t get FM radio in her house at all, but the DAB signal/decode being so robust means she now has all her fave shows.

One thing about SKY HD is they don’t broadcast HD/Master Audio, just the compressed 5.1 (sometimes 2.0 DD). Also if you don't keep SKY after a year, you can' always use the dish for Freesat:)

I've found my 42" Pany Plasma standard def. superior in every way to the CRT it replaced as long as the original broadcast is good - particularily noticeable on something like Life the other night, where even though it is only in standard you can tell the original recording is better quality.

As for Freeview being cr*p, it is far better than what we had here before with only 4 channels.

Sky HD is a bit of joke sometimes - are they still showing the Simpsons in HD? Well worth the cash

.

Sky HD is a bit of joke sometimes - are they still showing the Simpsons in HD? Well worth the cash

AFAIK they never have shown it in HD

AFAIK they never have shown it in HD

there was a big hoo-haa a while back when the first HD episode was broadcast

Really? Surely that would be iffy in terms of sale of goods act? HD is 1080i or 1080p as far as I know. I was under the impression that the boxes did 1080i and Blueray is 1080p?

Chris

720i < 1080i < 720p < 1080p

As far as I am aware everything over the airwaves is 1080i or 720p as there isn't the bandwidth at present to do 1080p.

HD can be any of the above standards, although anyone pushing 720i might well have a hard time doing so.

AFAIK they never have shown it in HD

are you sure? I remember seeing an ad for it. Perhaps they never put it on realising their error;) I bow to your superior knowledge, not having had Sky for 3 years:D.

I'll wait for Freeview HD - supposedly ready for 2012 Olympics - so I'm starting to hold my breath:rofl:

there was a big hoo-haa a while back when the first HD episode was broadcast

Indeed - there's been at least 1 which was "Wedding For Disaster". Looks significantly better than the regular episodes they show. Not sure if there are any others but "new" episodes are allegedly shown on Sky 1 HD at 7:30pm on Thursdays...

Chris

720i < 1080i < 720p < 1080p

As far as I am aware everything over the airwaves is 1080i or 720p as there isn't the bandwidth at present to do 1080p.

HD can be any of the above standards, although anyone pushing 720i might well have a hard time doing so.

iirc the original thoughts on the matter were

i=Sport

p=Movies

mainly because interleaved worked better to make the motion smooth an progressive works well with cinema

Sorry I'm not a Sky god like the rest of you lololol

Everytime I look on C170 it's just upscaled with the black bands left and right of the screen so I don't bother checking that often.

I prefer South Park if I'm honest lol

iirc the original thoughts on the matter were

i=Sport

p=Movies

mainly because interleaved worked better to make the motion smooth an progressive works well with cinema

1080p at 50Hz for sports causes motion sickness due to there now being enough definition to see the crowd moving and the individual sportsperson you are watching.

IIRC to get rid of that effect it's time for 300FPS TV.

Either way, nothing is broadcast at 1080p anyway. If it was my money right now it would be a 720p plasma over a 1080p LCD, however I am lucky enough to still be running CRT

1080p at 50Hz for sports causes motion sickness due to there now being enough definition to see the crowd moving and the individual sportsperson you are watching.

IIRC to get rid of that effect it's time for 300FPS TV.

Either way, nothing is broadcast at 1080p anyway. If it was my money right now it would be a 720p plasma over a 1080p LCD, however I am lucky enough to still be running CRT

Agree with your plasma LCD thought and it is that thought that I used when looking for my telly a couple of years ago.

Agree with your plasma LCD thought and it is that thought that I used when looking for my telly a couple of years ago.

Thing is LCDs now have advanced so much. The contrast ratios now are on par with plasma, and the backlighting on blacks has been greatly improved by a number of the big firms - most notably Samsung and their LED and OLED offerings.

Even my 3 yr old Samsung has 20,000:1 contrast ratio. Its the ANSI contrast ratio that's poor - 1200:1 where the min these days to get decent blacks I read is 1750:1. Most are at 2000:1 as a min.

It's another reason low-mid range plasma offerings are almost non existant now, and the big firms are concentrating on LCD technology

I don’t want to get into another Plasma v LCD argument but the actual real world contrast ratio of top Plasma is better than that of top LCD. The quoted figures are meaningless in real life. If I had my telly in a brightly lit room then I might have considered LCD. I wouldn’t look at LED tellys over Plasma though for similar reasons to the above. However the Oled technology look to be the ultimate winner, until the next gen of nuclear powered anti-matter fairy dust model comes along (probably made by a Chinese bloke in his shed). Probably will look at Oled when my Kuro has got old and died, which should be about the time the Oled is affordable. Shame S.e.d. never made it to market as it too looked promising.

1080p at 50Hz for sports causes motion sickness due to there now being enough definition to see the crowd moving and the individual sportsperson you are watching.

IIRC to get rid of that effect it's time for 300FPS TV.

Either way, nothing is broadcast at 1080p anyway. If it was my money right now it would be a 720p plasma over a 1080p LCD, however I am lucky enough to still be running CRT

I see sport on the CRT which has no staggering of the image and no loss of detail in pan shots. This does not cause any queasiness. The Panasonic G10 runs a system of frame generation so that each frame is analysed against the next one along and a set of intermediate images are displayed (at 600Hz) to smooth out movement. This kills the stepping that is evident on large screens. Looking at it, this is the first large panel display that I have found acceptable in this respect.

The best of HD broadcasts are in 1080i presently, so absolute quality not quite there (from what I can gather, pixels are dithered by a factor of 1.5 in the horizontal axis) but should look pretty good anyway.

I wish my CRT was still good. It is showing signs of packing up after 12 years. At 32" widescreen, it was good in its day and still is, but if I am going to buy another long term purchase, then I may as well get the best I can.

Chris