Thing is LCDs now have advanced so much. The contrast ratios now are on par with plasma, and the backlighting on blacks has been greatly improved by a number of the big firms - most notably Samsung and their LED and OLED offerings.

The backlighting element has come a long way and the LED sets do seem better with simple demo program material, but in the real viewing situation with fast moving random shapes, things still look a little odd around the edges to me.

Even my 3 yr old Samsung has 20,000:1 contrast ratio. Its the ANSI contrast ratio that's poor - 1200:1 where the min these days to get decent blacks I read is 1750:1. Most are at 2000:1 as a min.

I think that the contrast ratio is something that people get hung up on. As long as you get a natural looking image, it is OK with me. I find LCD contrast to be acceptable generally.

It's another reason low-mid range plasma offerings are almost non existant now, and the big firms are concentrating on LCD technology

Key reasons are cost and energy rating. Plasmas cost more to make, ship and run.

The key thing, the thing that everyone seems to ignore "elephant in the room" style is that the LCD image quality, even on the really top of the range sets, is not even close to as good as a traditional CRT as soon as the action starts to move around quickly. The shops are clever here, displaying specially filmed demo material to show off the panels to their best advantage, but the moving image resolution of LCD sets is still very low. In reality, even something as lacking in dynamic movement as a newsreader shows the issues in a way that is so obvious, even my mum with her old eyes will not go for it. She was recently looking at smaller TVs as she wants a new one in the region of 28" screen, budget higher than mine, and could not find anything satisfactory.

The odd thing is that many of my friends have LCDs and really cannot see the problem. They have invariably come from smallish CRTs to much larger panels and are I suspect so impressed with the width that they don't notice the quality.

Chris

Grab a Kuro while you still can Chris, you know it makes sense:D

Funnily enough I was looking at the new Panasonic range of Plasma the other day in a demo condition and thought they looked pretty good. It’s hard to say if the blacks compare well with the Kuro or not, but they must be awfully close. They seem good value too; they have connectivity to various internet sites for direct viewing. I think Eurosport and You tube are available and think I read somewhere that iplayer is coming too (not totally sure if I dreamt that one though:confused:)

Grab a Kuro while you still can Chris, you know it makes sense:D

Funnily enough I was looking at the new Panasonic range of Plasma the other day in a demo condition and thought they looked pretty good. It’s hard to say if the blacks compare well with the Kuro or not, but they must be awfully close. They seem good value too; they have connectivity to various internet sites for direct viewing. I think Eurosport and You tube are available and think I read somewhere that iplayer is coming too (not totally sure if I dreamt that one though:confused:)

I saw a couple of Kuro sets in Norwich last year. They were very nice indeed, but the Panasonic seems to be more than good enough (certainly the best I have seen since I started having a proper look a couple of weeks back) and have smoother motion too. There is very little in it from what I have seen, but the Panasonic is available in the size I want (Kuro are 50"+ now) and around half the price.

Just got to sort out change to sky or stay with cable.

Chris

I saw a couple of Kuro sets in Norwich last year. They were very nice indeed, but the Panasonic seems to be more than good enough (certainly the best I have seen since I started having a proper look a couple of weeks back) and have smoother motion too. There is very little in it from what I have seen, but the Panasonic is available in the size I want (Kuro are 50"+ now) and around half the price.

Just got to sort out change to sky or stay with cable.

Chris

Sure you will be happy with the Panny. Great picture and an affordable price.

The odd thing is that many of my friends have LCDs and really cannot see the problem. They have invariably come from smallish CRTs to much larger panels and are I suspect so impressed with the width that they don't notice the quality.

I cant see these on mine, but am so distracted on friends and families sets. bluring, pixelation - even on the same size as mine. :confused:

Noticed tonight that many news segments and documentaries are recorded on digital, and you can seem them graining very badly.

I cant see these on mine, but am so distracted on friends and families sets. bluring, pixelation - even on the same size as mine. :confused:

Noticed tonight that many news segments and documentaries are recorded on digital, and you can seem them graining very badly.

Virtually all tv is recorded digitally these days:(, Whether it is on to Digibeta tape or Pannys P2 cards etc. I wouldn’t have thought graining was a digital problem, as it is a term normally applied to film?

To me pixelation is around objects, and graining pixelation of textures - ie skin, metal, glass rfelections etc.

I cant see these on mine, but am so distracted on friends and families sets. bluring, pixelation - even on the same size as mine. :confused:

Noticed tonight that many news segments and documentaries are recorded on digital, and you can seem them graining very badly.

Are you referring to the "false texture" that seems do develop and disappear as the face moves?

Chris

To me pixelation is around objects, and graining pixelation of textures - ie skin, metal, glass rfelections etc.

The nearest I can equate graining to Digital is probably noise. In order to save money, quite often 'News' will send a production person out with a cheapo camera and they haven’t a clue how to operate it. The result is distorted sound (auto compressor) and weird, often burnt out pictures. Makes me weep sometime to think of the care we used to put into making any TV program or insert . Bloody amateurs

To me pixelation is around objects, and graining pixelation of textures - ie skin, metal, glass rfelections etc.

This is something I don't see with the big CRT or the plasmas. I do see it most of the time with LCD though. Occasionally, when something is poorly recorded digitally, it is evident by a similar effect on the CRT, but it is rare that it is visible.

Chris

The nearest I can equate graining to Digital is probably noise. In order to save money, quite often 'News' will send a production person out with a cheapo camera and they haven’t a clue how to operate it. The result is distorted sound (auto compressor) and weird, often burnt out pictures. Makes me weep sometime to think of the care we used to put into making any TV program or insert . Bloody amateurs

It is all going the way of cheap. Used to be that the people who made TV programs were interested in giving the viewing public the best possible quality. Now it often seems they just want to broadcast the lowest bandwidth, cheapest solution.

Chris

It is all going the way of cheap. Used to be that the people who made TV programs were interested in giving the viewing public the best possible quality. Now it often seems they just want to broadcast the lowest bandwidth, cheapest solution.

Chris

I certainly don’t. My colleagues and myself would love to give the public top technical quality programs (we actually make some pertty high technical standard shows, but you never see them once it leaves the OB site), but the bean counters and the government have tied us in knots! Most of the people in my industry who have their own radio mic kits are each going to have to bin thousands of pounds of radio mics thanks to the government s sell off of channel 69. I was after a couple of radio mics, but I can’t use the new channel as there is a 75 mile exclusion zone around Manchester, as the frequency is one that Jodrell Bank is sensitive too. So I am stuffed

Update:

Finally settled on a deal to satisfy both broadband and tv requirements. Staying with the fast bb from Virgin, having the HD TV service with Sky.

Sizing on the TV was a bit of a question, but finally decided on the Panasonic TX-P46G10. Two different guides as to what is good for viewing distance:

Rule of thumb 1 - Viewing distance should be not less than 2.5 x screen size. This makes a 50" absolute top limit for our viewing environment unless we move the seating closer to the wall (but this messes with listening to the Hi-Fi so that aint going to happen).

Rule of thumb 2 - If you look at the middle of the screen, you should not have to pan around the screen to see the corners. Standing in the shop at the viewing distance we have, the 50" is just a fraction too big on this basis.

Looking at broadcast quality, I think it is going to be no different between sky and vm. Reasoning behind this is that VM just receive the programming from the satellite and route it to the house through cable as far as I can tell.

Is there any benefit in bigger or better dishes than Sky provide?

Chris

The BBC (HD) are down to 10mbs these days. They reduced the rate a few weeks ago I thin. Bloody typical:mad:

First day with the full HD setup. Choice of 46" telly was the right one, any bigger would have been too big for the 11 1/2 foot viewing distance we have.

I am well impressed by the picture quality with HD sources. Sky seems to provide a decent variety of HD viewing. Recorded Life on BBC HD yesterday to watch today and was deeply impressed. Sky Arts 2 had a concert on this afternoon that was also very impressive.

SD programming looks OK, but any flaws are ruthlessly revealed. Minor falw in the ointment is that it seems a lot of channels do not tag the aspect ratio signal on correctly, so have to adjust manually sometimes.

So far, so good.

Chris

First day with the full HD setup. Choice of 46" telly was the right one, any bigger would have been too big for the 11 1/2 foot viewing distance we have.

I am well impressed by the picture quality with HD sources. Sky seems to provide a decent variety of HD viewing. Recorded Life on BBC HD yesterday to watch today and was deeply impressed. Sky Arts 2 had a concert on this afternoon that was also very impressive.

SD programming looks OK, but any flaws are ruthlessly revealed. Minor falw in the ointment is that it seems a lot of channels do not tag the aspect ratio signal on correctly, so have to adjust manually sometimes.

So far, so good.

Chris

Just watch your ‘Anytime TV’ fill up over the next few weeks! Bloody useless service imho and fills up around 160GB of your drive and you can’t use it to record stuff you actually want on that portion of the HDD:(

Just watch your ‘Anytime TV’ fill up over the next few weeks! Bloody useless service imho and fills up around 160GB of your drive and you can’t use it to record stuff you actually want on that portion of the HDD:(

Have not looked at that yet. Any way of disabliing it?

Have not looked at that yet. Any way of disabliing it?

It can be disabled in the settings. Have a look in there.

Not sure how though

Slightly Off Topic Chris, but there is a lot more HD Content coming through on Virgin these days, and the TV on demand has a substantial amount of HD Content (for example - all of Band of Brothers in HD).

I phoned Virgin retentions last week because I was thinking of bailing to Sky and got the following package (I already have a V+ Box) ;

50MB Broadband

XL TV Package

XL Phone Package (Free Calls to landlines 24/7)

A new N Series router thrown in for free

Total cost per month, £55.

Sky's internet service is 3rd world compared to the Virgin 50MB, and I have no trouble with any of the HBO HD Content, ESPN HD on the TV on demand and now has C4 HD, Living HD, ESPN HD, FX HD, MTV HD, National Geographic HD and BBC HD.

Add to that the 50MB Broadband means I can grab HD content from certain sources and download it in minutes for a 10GB HD bluray rip and be streaming it to the Xbox asap

Whilst it's not totally relevant to the subject, it could be worth sticking with Virgin and having a chat to the retentions department.

Note to self, read entire thread first ........ to late for retentions

It can be disabled in the settings. Have a look in there.

Not sure how though

I read that although you can disable it, you can’t access the spare capacity on the HDD :(

I read that although you can disable it, you can’t access the spare capacity on the HDD :(

That is true, a bit daft imo, but thats Sky for you:rolleyes:

That is true, a bit daft imo, but thats Sky for you:rolleyes:

The idea being if you decide you want it, the space is there even if your recording quota is filled up, so it wont record over your programs you actually wanted.

But there should be an overide. If there was, wouldnt need a new drive!

Slightly Off Topic Chris, but there is a lot more HD Content coming through on Virgin these days, and the TV on demand has a substantial amount of HD Content (for example - all of Band of Brothers in HD).

I phoned Virgin retentions last week because I was thinking of bailing to Sky and got the following package (I already have a V+ Box) ;

50MB Broadband

XL TV Package

XL Phone Package (Free Calls to landlines 24/7)

A new N Series router thrown in for free

Total cost per month, £55.

Sky's internet service is 3rd world compared to the Virgin 50MB, and I have no trouble with any of the HBO HD Content, ESPN HD on the TV on demand and now has C4 HD, Living HD, ESPN HD, FX HD, MTV HD, National Geographic HD and BBC HD.

Add to that the 50MB Broadband means I can grab HD content from certain sources and download it in minutes for a 10GB HD bluray rip and be streaming it to the Xbox asap

Whilst it's not totally relevant to the subject, it could be worth sticking with Virgin and having a chat to the retentions department.

Note to self, read entire thread first ........ to late for retentions

I had a look at VMs HD content for a while now. The TV choice HD content has not changed much for the few weeks I was looking and they are not due to add much in the way of channels any time soon.

Sky has the movie channels, Sky Arts channels in addition to all the channels VM has. The TV we got also has Freesat built in, so we can get proper access to ITV HD as well.

I did have a word with retentions, hence my staying with VM for the telephone and broadband services.

Chris

So are you planning on using Freesat once your SKY subscription has run out or are you somehow splitting the dish?

So are you planning on using Freesat once your SKY subscription has run out or are you somehow splitting the dish?

I got an extra 3rd lead run down from the dish so I can use Freesat as well. ITV HD is only available on Freesat (although there are bodges that allow access from Sky) and it cost me a pint to have the extra lead, so I thought why not?

Now have Sky +HD

Freesat

Freeview

Terrestrial analogue

Chris