noisy 1.3 mpi?? check your push rods!

[poorly_felicia]

Hi all! long time not been around ere' well nevre mind!

Felicity is going well, no major problems to report but has had some major replacements of late and is syarting to feel like a new car again! hehe

it has been my decision to slowly replace nearly everything on the car with new standard parts. since felicity has virtually no rust, and the chassis is completely clean and bend free we feel that it is more economical to keep her going. and we like her

Anyway, the point of this thread is that i have somewhat reduced the noise of my engine by changing the pushrods.

Even when i had the timing chain done she was still rattly but now is running quite smooth.

The story:

i was doing a general service (oil / filters / plugs) sort of thing when i thought may was well check the clearances at the same time. well stupid me only managed to completely thread of the the locking nuts on an adjuster making it rotate freely. BUGGER IT! off to the dearler go i. When i looked into the new part at the dealers a new adjuster screw and nut was only like £4 so i ordered 2 just in case, and while i was at it a new set of pushrods. (4 are steel and 4 are aluminimum dont order 8 of one type) I didnt think i wouold need ther rods, but with my discount down to £2 each i thought nthing to loose. Anyway, got home, and started tinkering.

To remove the pushrods all you need to do is remove the 4 secuting bolts on the well, i want to call it a camshaft but its not that - its the "axle" that the valve lifters rotate on? at the very top of the engine, just under the top cover. anyway, aftern you have removed the bolts release the tension on every valve adjuster and unscrew it to the max so you have maximim clearance around the pushrod. Since you have removed those 4 screws you can push the valves to the side enough to remove each pushrod in turn. do it one at a time so you replace them with the correct ones!

MINE WERE KNACKERED. yes, the top cups were lovely and smooth, but two of them were ever-so-slightly bent (making for different valve clearances when they naturally rotate) and all the aluminium ones had well mashed in bottoms - pitted scored etc, not as smooth as it should be.

After replacing them all, and re-doing the valvle clearances (new rods are shorter!!!!! and needed far more of the adjuster screwed in), driving for 100 miles and redoing the clearances, we have a perfectly smooth acceleration response and fuel economy reaching 45mpg. Very much quieter and a smoother idle to boot. Lovely!!!!!!

i it might be worth checking yours, for £30 a set!

tata,

Gavin

[Phil-E]

I never realised they were so easy to replace and though it was a major engine strip down job.

Might give mine a check. I imagine the MPi will be pretty much the same.

What mileage is yours at btw?

Phil

[poorly_felicia]

mine is the MPi, so no probs there. to clarify for you, as long as you undo the 4 securing bolts for the shaft (you still wont be able to move it though because of the end head bolts) you can push the lifters side to side enough to pop out the rods, you will need to make one partial engine rotation to allow you to get out the one or two rods that were pushed up initially by the cam though. hope you understand what i mean though.

yeah, it is definatly worth the effort!

EDIT: sorry forgot. My mileage is near enough 100,000

[Phil-E]

Yes I understand exactly what you mean. We obviously speak the same language when we don't know the names for all the parts!

Will have a tinker as I am due to do the valve clearances anyway.

I guess it is the problem with these push rod driven valves and the OHV design!

Phil

[poorly_felicia]

oh yeah,one more thing.

you need to be cafeful when tightning the adjusters back up. what i did once i had swapped all the rods was to maximum undo all the adjusters, and push them firmly down to the rods top cup. all the valves will have massive clearance, but them wehn you start to rotate the engine you can see which ones are opening, and then you can do the adjustment on the opposite valve. it will take quite a few rotations to get them all into the approximate correct clearance before doing it properly again. always make sure an un-adjusted adjuster is sitting in the cup every time you rotate. :confused: confusing myself now!

[Phil-E]

Have done me valves before and can manage to do it really easily and quickly if I just follow the pattern in the Haynes. If I think about it too much I get confuzzled!

lol

[Guest masster]

Very much quieter and a smoother idle to boot.

Unless you have bent/cracked push-rods or wrong valves clearance, rattling noise is mainly due to timing chain. My Felicia is waiting for a long time changing it. Btw, what mileage did you change it at?

[djaychela]

The aluminium ones were made to reduce valve clatter in cold climates, apparently. Having broken many 136 engines, I'd never use them; all the rally engines I've seen (and built) have only used the steel ones; this difference in material accounts for the different valve clearance spec on the MPi engines between inlet and exhaust. And yes, you can easily get them out without stripping the engine. You don't need to remove the cover for the cam follower gallery to do it either.

[poorly_felicia]

The aluminium ones were made to reduce valve clatter in cold climates, apparently. Having broken many 136 engines, I'd never use them; all the rally engines I've seen (and built) have only used the steel ones; this difference in material accounts for the different valve clearance spec on the MPi engines between inlet and exhaust. And yes, you can easily get them out without stripping the engine. You don't need to remove the cover for the cam follower gallery to do it either.

well, since i am not in a "cold climate" i ordered another 4 new steel ones to replace the aluminium ones, and i have to say it is a marked improvement with 8 steelies in it! very nice discovery! would never have though of it.

but, one question, what should the clearances be if im using all steel rods? 0.20mm for everything?

[AhmetH]

The aluminium ones were made to reduce valve clatter in cold climates, apparently. Having broken many 136 engines, I'd never use them; all the rally engines I've seen (and built) have only used the steel ones; this difference in material accounts for the different valve clearance spec on the MPi engines between inlet and exhaust. And yes, you can easily get them out without stripping the engine. You don't need to remove the cover for the cam follower gallery to do it either.

can you inform me a little more about changing them without removing the cover for cam followers ?

[Phil-E]

well, since i am not in a "cold climate" i ordered another 4 new steel ones to replace the aluminium ones, and i have to say it is a marked improvement with 8 steelies in it! very nice discovery! would never have though of it.

but, one question, what should the clearances be if im using all steel rods? 0.20mm for everything?

Suppose it makes sense to do that. Will that quieten the engine down even more then?

In regards to the valve clearance. Set them all to what the ones with steel push rods were at before hand. Not sure which are on the inlet or exhaust.

Phil

[djaychela]

I don't think there's much of a difference in noise, it's just that the aluminium pushrods have a higher cold clearance as they will expand more when they heat up?

As for pulling the pushrods out without taking the side cover off, do exactly that - slacken the clearances right off on the followers and you can get them out as described above. They just sit in the cam followers, so there's no need to remove the front gallery cover unless you want to get to the cam followers themselves.

[poorly_felicia]

I don't think there's much of a difference in noise, it's just that the aluminium pushrods have a higher cold clearance as they will expand more when they heat up?

As for pulling the pushrods out without taking the side cover off, do exactly that - slacken the clearances right off on the followers and you can get them out as described above. They just sit in the cam followers, so there's no need to remove the front gallery cover unless you want to get to the cam followers themselves.

on my engine at least, there is a noise reduction when using all steel rods. looking at the aluminimum ones carefully (even the new ones) they have a "flat spot" on the bottom end, the steel ones dont. perhaps the steel ones make for a smoother up/down motion without this flat spot? certainly made a difference on mine.

i have set them all to .20mm now and i have faster acceleration, 30 to 60ish on a motorway slip road was quicker then ever! will see what happens in regard to fuel consumption.

[auroan]

Tempted to do a push rod change on mine..... although I'm not sure it's worth it as Felly will be going when the Octy arrives.

Edited 22 October, 2009 by auroan

[djaychela]

i have set them all to .20mm now and i have faster acceleration, 30 to 60ish on a motorway slip road was quicker then ever! will see what happens in regard to fuel consumption.

Better change your username then!

[poorly_felicia]

Better change your username then!

not yet, she is still a little poorly in some ways, only when perfect will be called happy_felicia!

[Phil-E]

Tempted to do a push rod change on mine..... although I'm not sure it's worth it as Felly will be going when the Octy arrives.

I'll bring mine round Danny and we can do them together!

As well as my leaky rear brake cylinder!

[myjalopy]

on my engine at least, there is a noise reduction when using all steel rods. looking at the aluminimum ones carefully (even the new ones) they have a "flat spot" on the bottom end, the steel ones dont. perhaps the steel ones make for a smoother up/down motion without this flat spot? certainly made a difference on mine.

i have set them all to .20mm now and i have faster acceleration, 30 to 60ish on a motorway slip road was quicker then ever! will see what happens in regard to fuel consumption.

Lots of questions.

Did the mpg improve? How noisy was your engine, like a bag of spanners? Mine is, but the valve clearances are fine, too tight if anything. Chain appears to be good too. The only other thing I can think of is your idea about changing the pushrods. Is it only skoda dealers that sell them as I can't find them anywhere?