Hi all,

I have an confusing engine issue with my 55 reg Octavia II 1.9 PD Tdi 110PS that see's it back with the garage that last serviced it. It's done 80,000 miles, always serviced regularly, oil changed every 10,000 miles, FSH the lot.

The car has always run well, no problems, noises, issues of any kind infact. Following it's most recent service, about 10 days and 800 miles later ish - to be sort of exact the low oil pressure light came on. I stopped asap and dipped it to find no oil registering on the dip stick. Had it towed to the garage to find that the seal on the oil filter cap had some how rolled up, thus oil was lost and the rest as they say is history.

The garage then drained it, flushed it, re-filled it and checked it over (exactly how they checked it i have no idea). It starts on the button no problem, no funny noises with nothing more than the usual puff of smoke at start up that all diesels seem to have. It runs smoothly, no funny noises, no smoke out the back and you can hear the turbo spinning up. All seems fine after... though I have got the feeling it's not driving quite as it should, so i start pushing it about and really paying attention to the way it's driving.... The result of my messing & a few weeks of this getting more & more noticable? The car is definately lacking low down torque in all gears, it struggles to get going when you plant your foot down - sluggish like it has turbo lag. Once at speed though it's fine. At the other end it is maxed out at roughly 100mph, and I know it will do more - (obviously i don't usually drive it like I stole it but I wanted to try to get a feel for it at the other end of the spectrum). It has also lost about 1/2 a litre of oil in 1000ish miles (normally it uses about 1 litre between services) though i really noticed a big change this week as it went from the top of the dimples on the dip stick tab to the bottom of them - suggesting something is getting worse?

Thus far all they have done is remove the turbo (it only went in last Friday) and visually they say it seems ok, not full of oil, no play on the main bearing - though they are sending it off to be stripped and checked by a specialists.

I've considered piston rings? Though it starts fine, idles/runs ok so if the compression was off these would be affected would they not?

Perhaps a combination of CAM lobe wear (ruining the power characteristics) combined with seal damage (causing the oil to be burnt off)?

Sorry to ramble on but best you have all the details i can think of. I know these units are very robust but if the turbo is as they say it looks 'ok' where next? It'd be nice to get a few opinions incase the prospect of a full rebuild causes their currently very caring/helpful nature to wane. Thanks in advance!

Edited 26 October, 200916 yr by flaccid_cookie

Have you tried a new MAF sensor?

For power loss i would also say MAF

Do these have a crank case vent system? maybe blocked so blowing oil out :confused:

Hope you sort this problem out

Following previous advices, I would check all plugs around the engine, clean and use some silicon grease.

HTH

Its most likely not mechanical at all, as said the usual cause for these symptoms are MAF related. I assume the garage thats doing the work is not a main dealer, and therefore has little experience in VAG engines as this should be the first thing to check (and its easy to) when you get these symptoms. Far cheaper than taking things apart needlessly. Just because it shows no fault on the computer does not mean its working properly, the signals its sending could be all over the place confusing the ECU.

Right, thanks for those thoughts!

The garage is a VW specialist, but not a main dealer. The first thing they suggested was the MAF sensor, they changed it for a shiny new one, no change to the problem.

The MAF wouldn't explain the high oil loss though would it?

Crank case vent system? No idea... but as it isn't dropping oil (none where I park it overnight, none on the undertray, none splattered over the rear of the car) that points towards it being 'burnt'? thus the turbo is next suspect? as this would affect bottom end torque, top end speed and the high burning of the oil?

But knowing the engine is complex if not the MAF or the Turbo??? - What?

Also if the Turbo got damaged when the oil filter 'dropped' all the oil how likely is it that other items are also damaged?

Edited 27 October, 200916 yr by flaccid_cookie
abysmal spelling

Just simple ideas... Do you see any oil stains under the engine, when car is parked? Eventually you could keep it on for a few minutes and observe at engine underside...

Hi,

Are you sure that this is a result of the oil change problem and it wasn't there before. Sometimes when something goes wrong, I become hyper-sensitive and hear noises and feel things that have probably always been there but I never noticed before.

Have you checked for a leaking exhaust ? The oil loss is a bit worrying. What's the air filter like ? when I replaced mine a couple of weeks ago it was badly clogged - at some point the system had inhaled something like a large kitchen towel and this had broken up in the filter box.

TTFN

D

but as it isn't dropping oil (none where I park it overnight, none on the undertray, none splattered over the rear of the car)

One of the first things I checked Genoa.

It wasn't an oil change - perhaps my rambles are a bit incoherrant. The garage didn't fit the oil filter top properly. This led to a leak which finally went critical causing the oil to evacuate the filter all over the engine bay causing a low pressure oil alarm on the car. The filter problem went from ok to bad fairly quickly though as I dip, and check else where every few days following a service just to keep an eye things incase of an issue post service. Obviously I stopped driving asap when it low pressure alarmed - but how much effect this loss of oil pressure/oil volume had on the engine is anyone's guess?? After that incident the garage then drained, flushed and re-filled the engine. Since then it's been sluggish low down in the rev range and down on top end power. But no other obvious symptoms (as i say above) just this power deficiency and the oil loss. Before the oil loss incident it had bags of power low down and went a lot faster at the top end! I've done 22k in it since last christmas so have a pretty good feel for the car and ever since this oil loss problem it just feels wrong! not the same to drive... and getting more noticable like it's getting worse.

The air filter looked fine (when they changed the MAF over I had a look). The whole car only had a full service, all filters changed, brake fluid changed etc about 1 month ago so the anciliaries like that should be fine.

Edited 27 October, 200916 yr by flaccid_cookie
more poor spelling

With the continued oil loss and the initial running low on oil, it's beginning to sound as if the engine was starved of oil for too long and it's worn the valve guides and cylinder bores so oil is getting past and being burnt. Bad news I'm afraid. This is one time where a petrol engine would be easier to diagnose - you'd see oil fouling on the plugs, not too sure how you could check for that on a diesel without a strip down though the glow plugs may show something.

Sorry.

D.

Few things I'd like to clarify:

- Was the oil light, orange or red?

- When you say filter all over the engine bay do you mean the filter actually popped out, as I find that very hard to believe.

- If they fitted the filter and it popped out, I hope you're not paying for all of this work.

It is worth checking the EGR isn't blocked as this can cause problems and ditto the engine breather as this would have the car breathing oily air.

IMHO the 8v 1.9 never really had that much top end, so have you driven another car of the same type to see if it's delivery is the same or as you think it was before?

Check the exhaust and make sure it's not actually oily as opposed to sooty.

AFAIK, the engine shouldn't be severely damaged - if - you stopped the engine immediately when you got the low pressure alert. Do you trust the garage? I mean did they use correct engine oil and "flush"? Would it be worth having the car checked by another garage?

my 0.02

DSR - funny you should mention the glow plugs but the garage did VAG COM it and it came up with a fault on all of the Glow Plugs... They made light of it. I can't remember exactly what he said, and didn't see the screen to get a code though.

Cheeze - It was the low oil pressure light, the red one. The seal round the filter lid rolled over and eventually caused the oil filter seal to fail, causing the oil to spray out and thus the system pressure dropped. Thus far I've paid nothing but I'm worried an engine rebuild might see them change their tune? Well I've had roughly 120 on the clock before, it would barely pass 100 the other day before I took it into the garage - so it's down at the top end and it's lacking the usual grunt low down.

Genoa - I trust them in so much as thus far they changed the MAF and are discussing changing the turbo with no charge to me if that's the problem. They are a VW specialist so oil wise I'm sure it's the right type as I chatted to them at length about that once as VAG are so specific etc. It'd maybe be nice to find a recommended garage for a second opinion but I don't want to drive the car and turning up at their garage with a tow truck would sour things somewhat at this point... think I'll have to leave it with them and try to get them to look in more places. Hopefully it is fixable.

Right now, bearing in mind the turbo looked visually ok, and the glow plug fault code, I'm bricking it thinking DSR might be onto something... oh ****... If that was the case DSR if it's worn the bores... that'll be a write-off no? you can't put metal back where it's worn away... could it be the piston rings (thus replaceable) and valve guides? Or...?

If it is a write off - where do I stand RE: a solution? Is there a way to make sure the garage cop the cost or will it just come down to them, me and some sort of compromise? How much is a recon engine replacement? Please noooooooooooooo... be anything but that...

Edited 28 October, 200916 yr by flaccid_cookie
added extras

You can re-bore an engine and put new rings in it.

Personally I'd think if the pressure was low it might well have been the top end of the engine that suffered first unless there is something specific with the PD engines bottom end.

Perhaps wear on the camshaft or exhaust valves.

Whatever you do make sure you hold on to your original receipt, any pictures of the oil filter leak and also anything from the garage that details the problems plus the leaking filter.

Push comes to shove you can take them to court to recover your loss.

With the continued oil loss and the initial running low on oil, it's beginning to sound as if the engine was starved of oil for too long and it's worn the valve guides and cylinder bores so oil is getting past and being burnt. Bad news I'm afraid. This is one time where a petrol engine would be easier to diagnose - you'd see oil fouling on the plugs, not too sure how you could check for that on a diesel without a strip down though the glow plugs may show something.

If there was wear and leakage around the valves wouldn't it froth the oil around the camshafts, which could be seen via the oil filler cap?

For cylinders you should still be able to get some idea from a pressure test at the ignition plug holes for each cylinder? Obviously it wouldn't be at working temperature (unless there are some trick plugs available with a pressure take-off point) but should be enough to show if the compression is well off-spec.

The car is definately lacking low down torque in all gears, it struggles to get going when you plant your foot down - sluggish like it has turbo lag. Once at speed though it's fine.

That does sound consistent with loss of pressure at the valves and/or cylinders, worse at low revs than high revs, but ultimately a lower maximum pressure.

Depending on severity, cylinder bore 'scoring' can be seen via the ignition plug hole with a borescope, if you can find a place with one. IIRC that's how F1 teams do it now when the engines are 'sealed' to prevent rebuilds, but they need to know if the engine will last the next race.

Cheeze/icarusi,

Hmmmm... thanks? for that lol. Well I'll be ringing them today to see what (if anything) they have found from having the turbo stripped down. Have to see what they say... if the Turbo is ok then I will have to chat valves/camshaft/rings etc with them... the saga continues... I'll post the results when i have them!

Cheers all!

Good luck