Let's remember that fog lights have existed for a great number of years. Back in the days when fog was a lot more common than it is now, people discovered that normal headlights reflect back off the fog, causing a loss of visibility. What they found was that lights set lower down, while not giving the same illumination of the road in normal conditions, did allow some limited visibility forward of the vehicle, and made for a slightly safer progress through the murk. Sometimes, they were also yellow, since this had less of a problem with the glare and reflections caused by the water droplets in the atmosphere.

For quite a long time - in the 70s and 80s, fog lights practically disappeared from the front of cars. Fog is a less common phenomenon these days, and headlights had got better, anyway.

What we have nowadays is a fashion for lots of lights on the front of a car, with varying purposes, brightnesses and positions. If you use the foglights on their own, IN FOG, you may find that they still perform the purpose for which they were designed. Unfortunately there is a growing number of people who just like to show off the fact that their car has lots of lights on it.

In very dark conditions, the fog lights may also help a little with illuminating the verges of the road, because of their low position. However, as pointed out by some posters, it's not legal under current road traffic law to use them except in conditions of seriously reduced visibility. You can choose to ignore that, and if stopped by a traffic cop, you will be given a £30 fine, and sent on your way. You may think that's an acceptable price to pay.

Fog lights if correctly adjusted, shouldn't dazzle oncoming drivers. The problem is that often they're mounted in a plastic bumper surround, have little or no adjustment capability, and thus wobble about and easily lose what adjustment they do have. Then they become an annoyance to oncoming drivers. People using fog lights in conjunction with sidelights IN THE DARK (in fog, that's how they're meant to be used), are purely fashion victims, and are endangering themselves as well as those around them. If they were to fall off the road and hit a tree, nobody would be poorer as a result

I'd give you a thanks nick, but it's not an option, so I'll just have to post my thanks instead

That is a very bad cough that you have on your chest for some one obviously so young and beautiful my Lady Elanore.

That is a very bad cough that you have on your chest for some one obviously so young and beautiful my Lady Elanore.

Have we met?

Clearly not

Saw a post on the thread Antony posted about bringing in systesm whereby cars disable fog lights over a certain speed.

Sounds like quite a good idea to me - to will stop chavs using them unless they crawl everywhere, and will turn off as conditions improve to allow higher speeds. (Both points the guy in the other thread made.)

But does sound like quite a good solution until the chavs find a way to by-pass the systems,.

Clearly not

In cyberspace nobody can hear you scream you know…………..-Fetches a large sniffer dog with big teeth

Have we met?

It is very much my misfortune that I have not had the pleasure of your acquaintance!

It is very much my misfortune that I have not had the pleasure of your acquaintance!

I concur with you ‘thumbs up smilie’

There seems to be a bit of confusion between old style foglights and modern ones. When I was first driving in the 1950s, foglights were indeed intended a driving lights in fog because the headlights were so poor that they always reflected back off the fog. I recall people fitting one on the offside with a wide but cut off spread and one on the nearside with a very narrow beam to pick out the kerbs.

Nowadays with vastly improved dipped headlights it's rare to get much reflection back so front foglights now do a similar job to the rear ones, just to make a vehicle more easily seen by other road users. As such dipped headlights should be used whenever visibility is poor and foglights when visibility is less than 100 metres, and only with dipped headlights on.

Just as an experiment, last time I was driving in thick fog at night, I turned off the headlights and tried driving with only fogs, even crawling along I very soon turned the dipped headlights on again.

Edited 1 December, 200916 yr by Calomax
putting in the </p><p> paragraph markers

Calomax, if that were the case, foglights would only need low wattage bulbs in them. Rear fogs have 21W bulbs, like brake lights. Front fogs typically have a 55W headlamp bulb in them. The lens design means that the full light output doesn't tend to get out onto the road, but they're more than just a visibility aid. Also, if you can't see two (lights with the power of) headlights, are you going to see 4?

That said, I still think they're more of a fashion accessory than anything.

I have to say on the foglight thing, I really wish people did the +50% bulbs with the yellow coatings on.

Osram did a +30% all weather plus. The light came out yellow and the +30% meant that your lights were no less bright than standard bulbs without the coating. Brilliant things, but alas I can't seem to find them in H1 or H7 and the closest I can get are 100w H1 bulbs, which are no use for the plastic lamps.

Let's remember that fog lights have existed for a great number of years. Back in the days when fog was a lot more common than it is now, people discovered that normal headlights reflect back off the fog, causing a loss of visibility. What they found was that lights set lower down, while not giving the same illumination of the road in normal conditions, did allow some limited visibility forward of the vehicle, and made for a slightly safer progress through the murk. Sometimes, they were also yellow, since this had less of a problem with the glare and reflections caused by the water droplets in the atmosphere.

For quite a long time - in the 70s and 80s, fog lights practically disappeared from the front of cars. Fog is a less common phenomenon these days, and headlights had got better, anyway.

What we have nowadays is a fashion for lots of lights on the front of a car, with varying purposes, brightnesses and positions. If you use the foglights on their own, IN FOG, you may find that they still perform the purpose for which they were designed. Unfortunately there is a growing number of people who just like to show off the fact that their car has lots of lights on it.

In very dark conditions, the fog lights may also help a little with illuminating the verges of the road, because of their low position. However, as pointed out by some posters, it's not legal under current road traffic law to use them except in conditions of seriously reduced visibility. You can choose to ignore that, and if stopped by a traffic cop, you will be given a £30 fine, and sent on your way. You may think that's an acceptable price to pay.

Fog lights if correctly adjusted, shouldn't dazzle oncoming drivers. The problem is that often they're mounted in a plastic bumper surround, have little or no adjustment capability, and thus wobble about and easily lose what adjustment they do have. Then they become an annoyance to oncoming drivers. People using fog lights in conjunction with sidelights IN THE DARK (in fog, that's how they're meant to be used), are purely fashion victims, and are endangering themselves as well as those around them. If they were to fall off the road and hit a tree, nobody would be poorer as a result

A "thanks" for that, although the button seems to have disappeared since the recent site problems

Calomax, if that were the case, foglights would only need low wattage bulbs in them. Rear fogs have 21W bulbs, like brake lights. Front fogs typically have a 55W headlamp bulb in them. The lens design means that the full light output doesn't tend to get out onto the road, but they're more than just a visibility aid. Also, if you can't see two (lights with the power of) headlights, are you going to see 4?

That said, I still think they're more of a fashion accessory than anything.

Rear fogs don't need to be as bright as your travelling in the same direction. Front fogs are brighter as they're coming at you so you need to be able to see them from further away.

You're right though, they are a fashion accessory and may only be of slight benefit on major roads in thick daylight fog as the light scatters too much in the dark.

Rear fogs don't need to be as bright as your travelling in the same direction.

Obv you dont have fog like we do. Some mornings with heavy fog you can just about see rear fogs at 100yrds!

Obv you dont have fog like we do. Some mornings with heavy fog you can just about see rear fogs at 100yrds!

And they're illegal if you can see much further (100 metres). We do occasionally get thick fog but the nature of the Island roads and short journeys make it less of a problem. I often drive in the big island (UK) and Europe sometimes but so far have managed to miss serious fog.

IMO front fogs should only be used when visibility is so reduced that you are unable to see the kerb in normal headlights or when dipped beam throws back too much glare to see the road. We are talking 10 - 15 ft visibility here.

Chris

IMO front fogs should only be used when visibility is so reduced that you are unable to see the kerb in normal headlights or when dipped beam throws back too much glare to see the road. We are talking 10 - 15 ft visibility here.

Chris

sorry mate but if visibility is only 10 - 15 ft then you shouldn't be driving at all!

I remember, years ago, I can not quite remember how many, traveling from the Wirral down to Cambridge at night. The whole country was gripped in fog, mostly down to 10 - 15 meters and for many miles less than that. I think that the journey took us over 10 hours. On some road junctions the fog was so thick that the road sighs could not be read from inside of the car. At times speed was down to walking pace. Windscreen wipers where going for the whole journey. It was the most strange experience, traveling by memory for some of the way and at one occasion taking a wrong turn and then having to navigate back. No GPS then, well i do not have one now so no difference for me in that Everything was very eery, no familiar landmarks could be seen to help with the way. One moment it was completely dark then a glow of an approaching headlamp came and passed the other way very slowly , like ships at sea. Occasionally one would catch up with others going the same way, sometimes they with rear fogs lit, at other times, just side lights. It was better when approaching from behind when rear fogs where on but when traveling behind it was a bit glaring. Best to drop back. Quite a few stopped to let us pass, then they would hurry up to catch a tow, hanging on to tail lights which is a bit daft because relying on the front car in these circumstances leads to false confidences and a total reliance on the leading car for safe passage and decision making. It is much preferable to travel as a single car and make ones own decisions at ones own pace.

I enjoy traveling in difficult conditions over long distances. I like the intensity of concentration and adapting the driving to suit, be it for, snow, ice, fog, high winds or what ever. Even when I rode bikes I loved it, probabbly more so then because motorcycle riding is such an intimate and involving form of travel. One becomes very close with the road and environmental conditions. The only way of traveling that I do not like very much is heavy traffic because it is a pain.

sorry mate but if visibility is only 10 - 15 ft then you shouldn't be driving at all!

Correctly set up front fogs only illuminate a very limited area in front of the car, much less than 30'. If you can see sufficiently with just dipped headlights, then front fogs are not needed. If the fog is so thick that dipped headlights are just blinding you with glare, masking the kerb and centre line, then front fogs and side lights are the only way. Just occasionally, you will encounter situations where you need to run front fogs and dipped headlights, but it is rare.

Like Anthony, I have needed to travel in severe conditions and enjoyed it. Have even had to go a short distance on a dual carriageway in fog so thick that the only way to see where I was going was to open the drivers door and follow the lane marker at 1 - 2 mph. Front fogs were of little use in that.

Chris

I don't mind following someone else in dense fog as long as they're not going way faster than is safe; what I do is try and sit at a distance where I I can only just see their rear fog(s), so I'll can see when they brake but have as much distance as possible between us.

Well both my fog lights have had stones in them and the bulb is knackered, so I couldn't even use them if I wanted too

Been driving years and only had to use them a few times and mainly only used in the back of beyond going to the outlaws house one night.

Ben