1.2 TSI 'S'

[Anthony 1]

weaver

Sorry for digressing from your thread. I tend to be very focused on my own direction and forget that their is another world out there, I am sure that the 2 WD is still a good car. Personally i would go for something else more car like if I could but because of my environment my choices are dictated for me to some extent. I have just been looking and looking for a more ordinary type of vehicle that would be good driving on the road and yet still get in and out of my property. As said above in my post I have improved my access tracks to a point were this is possible now,

I like technology and usually it applications also. ABS brakes are not something that I can emulate. Sure I can sense a wheel slipping and release the brakes as fast as any one I usually know when it is about to lock up but just releasing the brakes reduces pressure across all four yet the wheel lock might be just in one wheel. No matter how good anyone is they still can not just release the brakes on one wheel, so I accept ABS because it is much better than me, the same applies to some of the other systems to an extent, more or less so, depending on what it is. The thing is for me that some of the technology looks like it is interfering with my decision making and doing things that I can either do better my self or may want to overdo it or under-do it for what ever reason or just ignore. For instance I am driving across a very bumpy road at speed come through a set of tight double S Bends and yes I know that the back is going to kick out but I will be switching to another direction just after and that kicking out is actually beneficial to my progress. I know that the front end is going to slide here and so on I could have steered into it but chose not to. their are countless situations like that. More and more, choices are being taken away from the driver in the assumption that it is good for them, like medicine It is a pity that some of more of these systems can not be elective.

I think that the yeti Brochure is very poor. I was quite confused myself as to what function went with what specification. Lots of acronyms but little explanation as to how they applied to you choice. I would go as far as saying that it is the worse brochure that I ever had. Poorly illustrated poorly explained, possible errors misleading information. I can easily see how you might still have questions also.

I would again like to thank the other two contributers, Babs and JonA. Of course I do understand traction control but I have no real sense of how everything integrates on the Yeti or how effective or not some of that Technology is or how invasive and possibly counter productive. I have never owned a VAG machine. I do not know how the designers think

I very much resent the fashion towards Off Road Vehicles or cross overs it has elevated the cost of machines making it very expensive for those who really need them because desirability increases cost. Yet on the other hand I accept that some of the advances would not have been introduced if they were not so popular. The thing is some this technology is not very good for the original users of these machines because they are pandering to a fashion. I have just got to sort out what I can live with or try something else. Which would be a pain because I felt that I had found something that ticked so many boxes. I hope that those boxes or becoming unticked. I will have to see and read on.

[Babs]

<snip>

Not a problem - obviously turning the aids off while driving normally wouldn't be necessary, and the 4wd versions would have better traction anyway. Most drivers can and do react quicker than ASR, then find that ASR cuts the power anyway!

It's a very, very simple system and of course the Haldex-equiped versions have 4wd, and ESP to ensure better traction (my braking individual wheels, etc), but the S spec simply has ASR. Which is rubbish.

The point of a 2wd "off-roader"? Well... not to go off roading, really! Some people like the lofty driving position, some may need the higher ground clearance but not necessarily the traction afforded by 4wd. They like the cabin space. Or perhaps they just like the look of the car!

The Haldex works very well, so if you go for a perhaps 140 TDI with 4wd it should be perfect for you

[weaver]

One thing I don't think I've mentioned so far is that getting a child in and out of a child seat at Yeti height is soooooo much easier than at normal saloon height - another box ticked for us.

Could have gone for a mini-MPV and did in fact test drive a new shape Honda Jazz, a full size MPV is bigger than we want or need.

Back to the brochure:

E spec gets ABS, EBD, MBA, EBC and ASR

and as far as I can tell:

S spec gets exactly the same unless it is DSG or 4x4, but ESP is available as an option.

Translating with the aid of JonA's list, I have:

- ABS: Anti-lock brakes, not possible to switch off.

- EBD: Electronic brake force distribution between front and rear axle, always on.

- MBA: Mechanical emergency brake assistant, increases the hydraulic pressure if it detects emergency braking. Always on.

- EBC: Haven't tracked this one down -any guesses?

- ASR: Anti slip regulation, reduces engine power if wheel slip is detected when trying to gain speed. Brake ECU detects wheel slip, engine ECU reduces power without use of brakes. Can be turned off with the "ASR OFF" switch.

Edited 15 December, 2009 by weaver

[JonA]

EBD=Electronic brake distribution

EBV=Electronic bremse verteilung

Same thing, I was mixing German and English abreviations

[weaver]

EBD=Electronic brake distribution

EBV=Electronic bremse verteilung

Same thing, I was mixing German and English abreviations

That was my guess.

Any idea what EBC is though?

[Gilesmengland]

I very much resent the fashion towards Off Road Vehicles or cross overs it has elevated the cost of machines making it very expensive for those who really need them because desirability increases cost.

....The "fashion" for not spending money on road repairs is part of the reason I've gone for a Yeti !

As for it being expensive, I actually think it's pretty good value for money, given the level of standard kit - certainly compared with a Golf.

For anyone who really "needs" 4wd, a standard 4wd Yeti isn't going to tick all the boxes anyway - e.g. axle articulation, underbody protection, approach / departure angles, tyres etc. etc.

[The Plumber]

The Yeti can be ordered with two different brake systems, the Conti-Teves MK70 and the Conti-Teves MK60. The MK70 is used in cars without ESP, and the MK60 is used in cars with ESP.

-ESP: Electronic stability program, uses ABS sensors, pressure sensor in hydraulic unit, steering wheel angle sensor, "yaw"-sensor, acceleration sensor etc to calculate if the vehicle is moving in the direction the driver intended, and uses both engine ECU to reduce power, and brake ECU which applies brakes to individual wheels to help steer the car in the right direction. Always on. It used to be possible to turn ESP off, but not on new (after build week 45 2009) Skoda cars. The switch that looks like the one that used to turn ESP off, now only disengages ASR. Allows the wheels to spin, but no four wheel drifts :'(

-TSA: Trailer stability program. Uses brakes on the car, and can also reduce power to help stabilize a "swinging" trailer. On when using a trailer on cars with factory installed tow hook electrics.

-RBS: Rain brake support. Applies brakes lightly on wet roads from time to time to help dry the friction surfaces. Always on.

Hi JonA,

Is it not Conti-Teves ESP systems that have been failing in Octavia's & Golf's, hoped they had gone back to Bosch.

Was also under the impression that the Yeti had the non disabling ESP from production start, so maybe not. Mines WK 42 so I might be able to disengage it then.

No mention of TSA in our brouchers so intresting point and a reason to spec the tow prep then. Wish SUK would give customers a better picture regard the features of standard and optional kit.

Likwise RBS I assume you would need the rain sensor to enable this function.

Best wishes and thanks,

TP

[Babs]

If it's called ESP it'll be Bosch. ESP is a Bosch trademark.

[Gilesmengland]

No mention of TSA in our brouchers so intresting point and a reason to spec the tow prep then. Wish SUK would give customers a better picture regard the features of standard and optional kit.

My understanding of towbar prep is that they pre-route the electricals from the engine compartment to the boot area. Makes installation easier, and no potentially creaky panels when reassembled.

TSA may still be available without Towbar prep, as long as the OE wiring is used.

My S-Max had an after-market towball fitted, but with Ford electricals, and the CCC "coded" to activate TSA when towing.

It uses the brakes on each side of the car alternately to control swaying.

[JonA]

Hi JonA,

Is it not Conti-Teves ESP systems that have been failing in Octavia's & Golf's, hoped they had gone back to Bosch.

Was also under the impression that the Yeti had the non disabling ESP from production start, so maybe not. Mines WK 42 so I might be able to disengage it then.

No mention of TSA in our brouchers so intresting point and a reason to spec the tow prep then. Wish SUK would give customers a better picture regard the features of standard and optional kit.

Likwise RBS I assume you would need the rain sensor to enable this function.

Best wishes and thanks,

TP

Hi!

I haven't seen any Octavia cars with "the failing brake systems" so I would not worry to much about that. The brake systems used in the Yeti is also used in the Superb II, and I'm sure many other VAG cars.

I think you are right about the Yeti's "non switchable ESP" from start of production. Mine is also pre WK45, and I can only switch off ASR.

From what I have read, I can't think of any other way the car would know that the road is wet unless it uses the rain/light sensor, so you are probably correct :yes:

[shrub]

Hi!

I haven't seen any Octavia cars with "the failing brake systems" so I would not worry to much about that. The brake systems used in the Yeti is also used in the Superb II, and I'm sure many other VAG cars.

I think you are right about the Yeti's "non switchable ESP" from start of production. Mine is also pre WK45, and I can only switch off ASR.

From what I have read, I can't think of any other way the car would know that the road is wet unless it uses the rain/light sensor, so you are probably correct

Failed ESP systems have been quite common on MK5 Golfs and Audi models. I don't know about Skoda but in the VW's they typically fail at about 4 - 5 yrs when the car is out of warranty. The repair bill is usually £1000 - £1500. Similar problems are also very common on certain BMW's.

[The Plumber]

Hi!

I haven't seen any Octavia cars with "the failing brake systems" so I would not worry to much about that. The brake systems used in the Yeti is also used in the Superb II, and I'm sure many other VAG cars.

I think you are right about the Yeti's "non switchable ESP" from start of production. Mine is also pre WK45, and I can only switch off ASR.

From what I have read, I can't think of any other way the car would know that the road is wet unless it uses the rain/light sensor, so you are probably correct :yes:

Thanks again JonA,

re the ESP/ABS there has been a lot of discussion and reported failures on the Octavia II forum.

see: My link

If I am right then regard RBS I will be missing this function on my Monster, as she has light assist but not rain sensor; ah well.

Intended to ask this morning as to how your getting on with the unwanted orchestra in the car; still have some noises myself but not often enough to take to the dealer again, as I just know she will be as quite as a mouse while there. Otherwise couldn't be better.

Regards,

TP

[The Plumber]

If it's called ESP it'll be Bosch. ESP is a Bosch trademark.

Thanks Babs,

There's a conundrum then, as the owners manual describes the system as Electronic Stability Programme (ESP) but the Conti-Teves MK60 is described as Electronic Stability Control (ESC). So have Skoda switched manufactures but not bothered to change their literature? Noticed as well that the Term ESP has disappeared from the control switch but this may have more to do with it now being permanently engaged.

See: My link

By the way the current Conti-Teves systems will be phased out from 2011 to be replaced by the MK100, by which time ESC should be fitted to all European cars by law so I understand.

[CharlieB72]

Ooh this looks like it has some technoheads on this post that maybe able to help. I've posted this question before but no one has responsed. Here goes again...

I would like a 1.2TSI SE with ESP and possibly front sensors. The brochure says you get ESP and front sensors with Park Assist (much cheaper option too). Big question = is ESP on the Park Assist the same as ESP on the ESP option. The dealer said yes but when I pointed out that the 'Hill Hold ESP' had different components to it, he didn't know.

Any ideas? Anyone?

[The Plumber]

Ooh this looks like it has some technoheads on this post that maybe able to help. I've posted this question before but no one has responsed. Here goes again...

I would like a 1.2TSI SE with ESP and possibly front sensors. The brochure says you get ESP and front sensors with Park Assist (much cheaper option too). Big question = is ESP on the Park Assist the same as ESP on the ESP option. The dealer said yes but when I pointed out that the 'Hill Hold ESP' had different components to it, he didn't know.

Any ideas? Anyone?

As far as I am aware the braking system can have a number of features programed or attached to it depending on the whether for example you have a MK60 or MK70 system. The problem as you quite rightly point out is that dealers and even SUK are not clear as to the exact functionality of the various systems on the Yeti (dependant on spec and or options fitted).

As with discussion on this thread and others, we as Monster owners are finding features that are not highlighted in any literature and in some cases having to speculate on how these might actually work, for example RBS.

The brochures appear to suggest with the SE spec that ESP (or ESC) + Hill Hold is standard on 1.2TSI Yeti's with DSG, otherwise Hill Hold is an option on 4x4 only (as with mine). Whereas the Park Assist only indicates with ESP.

The Conti-Teves site states the following:

ESC is the sum of the following functions:

ABS Anti-lock Brake System

EBD Electronic Brake force Distribution

TCS Traction Control System

AYC Active Yaw Control

They further state:

We are in a position to achieve many vehicle safety and comfort functions as pure software enhancements of existing technologies, such as ESC (Electronic Stability Control). This is possible because of the flexible architecture of our control systems and our comprehensive expertise in the interlinking and networking of systems.

Examples from our software program:

Hydraulic Brake Assist (HBA)

Active Rollover Protection (ARP)

Hill Descent Control (HDC)

Trailer Stability Assist (TSA)

Hill Start Assist (HSA)

Full Speed Range ACC (FSA)

Deflation Detection System (DDS)

Automatic Vehicle Hold (AVH)

Low Dynamic ESC (LDE)

Ready Alert Brakes (RAB)

Under steer Control Logic (UCL)

Booster Performance Support (BPS)

You could try e-mailing Skoda CZ: they are pretty good with coming back with a positive response although on occasion they do refer you back to SUK who often give the impression that they are more in the dark than we are, with some of their answers.

My link

Hope that goes some way to answering your question.

Regards,

TP

[GentleGiant]

We are in a position to achieve many vehicle safety and comfort functions as pure software enhancements of existing technologies, such as ESC (Electronic Stability Control). This is possible because of the flexible architecture of our control systems and our comprehensive expertise in the interlinking and networking of systems. /quote]

That would suggest that a number of the options left out of lower spec cars can be enabled with a software hack, and some of the others by a hack and fitting of any required parts as an after-market upgrade.

Anyone care to comment??

[Anthony 1]

I was also wondering about software rewriting.! Perhaps various functions could be disabled or modified to have different values and have functions come on at different speeds or to reduce their effect.?

[Llanigraham]

I'm sorry to say that having read all this thread I am becoming more "put off" the Yeti, as compared to the Freelander 2.

Like Anthony I have been involved in the 4x4 world for a long time. I can accept that things change, and moving to the Freelander 1 meant I had to relearn some of the old ways. Luckily LR help me to do that.

Having driven the FL2 at Eastnor I know that although there is some automatic intervention the driver still has a lot of input into driving, especially off road. This can be as simple as choosing where to turn the control knob to, where there is a choice of different settings for different situations.

There are situations where I can see I would have a problem with the Skoda set-up, and these are not extreme off-road situations, but fairly typical stage rally parking places, which I regularly use.

I have seen all the videos on here of the Yeti off-road, and to be honest, you could easily drive a 2 WD version through most of them! I asked ages ago whether anyone had actually taken a Yeti properly off-road yet. I still waiting for some experiences.

[Anthony 1]

Hi Graham,

I have not taken one off road yet. I am a little confused about some of the systems employed and how or what stage they come in. Mostly people on this thread are referring to the 2 wheel drive version. I did unfortunately forget this for a little while. A couple of the guys above have highlighted what some of the systems are.

You have far more experience than I have with these cross over or soft roader vehicles due to your ownership of the Freelander and regularly off roading it. Perhaps you can highlight some of your concerns and say how you might see this vehicle failing off the tarmac due to its electronic devices.

Perhaps we should start another thread or restart an earlier one because I have waded well into this one and perhaps gone off topic a bit. I really like the car,it drives well on the road is quick from the test that I gave it for half and hour or more, it has some features that I like, HID essential in my book and so on Oh and the haldex system looks good I just need to know if some of the other electronics compromise it in any way.

[Babs]

The Freelander 1 was a hateful car and was barely built well enough to cope with road driving!

[Gilesmengland]

The Freelander 1 was a hateful car and was barely built well enough to cope with road driving!

I had a FL2 on hire - within 2 hours it had drunk all its coolant.

Personally, would never buy a LR product. Reminds me of the advice for buying a Rover SD1 - "Go for the highest spec car you can. It makes waiting for the recovery van far more pleasant....."

[Babs]

A friend's MOT place used to do all the MOT's for 3-year-old Land Rover's from the local dealership... the vast majority of FreeLanders failed on a major suspension component. At three years old!

[Gilesmengland]

They say that 80% of all Land Rover products made are still on the road.

The other 20% made it home under their own steam.

[Llanigraham]

Funny isn't it how people can be so judgemental with so little experience. Funnily enough I can probably find lots of people with the same attitude about Skodas!!

I only have to look through this whole forum to see people reporting faults and problems. However I am a realist, and know that it is very rare for people who are happy with their car to post about it, other than a new model, such as the Yeti. Mind you people are reporting faults here. The same can be found on every car forum you care to look at, from Merc to Subaru to Ford.

I am now on my second Freelander in 6 years. First one was an L series diesel that had done nearly 100k miles when it was part exchanged. In that time, other than the usual consumables, the only things that had been replaced were the VCU support bearings. It was changed due to our needing a 5 door, due to grand children arriving. I now have a Td4 that has done nearly 70k and has never had a problem. It does a 100 mile commute every shift, tows a caravan, and regularly get used off-road, often over far more severe stuff than people expect it to.

Funnily enough the last time I had to use a recovery company I was in my old Skoda!!

[Llanigraham]

A friend's MOT place used to do all the MOT's for 3-year-old Land Rover's from the local dealership... the vast majority of FreeLanders failed on a major suspension component. At three years old!

If that is true, then:

1/ there would have been a safety memo issued by LR and potentially a safety recall/notice issued by VOSA. I haven't seen one.

2/ there have been no reports as such through the Freelander Owners Club, and we have close contacts with Solihull, and nothing from there.

If you would like to tell me which part is faulty I will follow this up?

Edited 16 December, 2009 by Llanigraham