Booked in with Celtic Tuning

[Leeland]

Before and after figures? It was probably pushing out more than 103 as stock.

RR figures are for pub bragging rights, I had a PD105 vRoomster that was mapped by Performance Torque to 163bhp, but it was making a lot more than the quoted 105 from stock so the actual gain was around 40bhp, but better than that an excellent torque curve.

If anyone thinks they are going to get 195BHP from a generic stage 1 map then they are just seriously deluded, I even posted a graph, from awesome's rollers of a Fabia vRS, a very healthy one, with PD160 intake / Filter and FULL Blueflame Turbo back system and it made 172 on the Celtic map. A lot of PD130's make over the quoted figure as stock, I have seen stock ones make in excess of 140.

A stage one map, if you put a panel filter in and do the PD160 intake and you are looking at around +35 / 40 BHP, forget the top end figures, you will get 35 / 40 bhp over what you started with ...... period.

'Fluffmeister', enlighten me as I'm a dummy with mechanics, I had a Celtic remap, on their premises. 1st run on the rolling road was 142.6bhp (zero modifications), as you say

many are over quoted as stock, Graham the engineer at Celtic said that was typical on that engine. I told them (worried about clutch etc) that I didn't want

anywhere near the quoted 195bhp on a remap, I went assuming it was 130bhp and wanted a gain of around 30/40bhp.

The remap he did produced 178.9bhp/300lb, on their rolling road, the car certainly feels a good 35bhp quicker.

So, do you think their rolling road is 'generous' or is it something in the software, the graph produced was much smoother than the original 'map',

no flat spots. Is it smoke and mirrors?? I genuinely don't know.

[Soot1e]

Now, 179bhp and 300ft.lbs. does sound about right for stage 1 remap. My old Golf 130 was 186bhp & 330ft.lbs. with a Jabba custom map. So go forth and enjoy.

[Si Vxr]

and as i keep saying im not expecting 195bhp but all will be confirmed next saturday

[Leeland]

and as i keep saying im not expecting 195bhp but all will be confirmed next saturday

I'm completely open minded Si, being a numb-nuts with mechanics, but I'll be interested to see the results of

your rolling road test.

[wja96]

Can I be a right miserable ******* and just say that you've just opened your wallet in a major way?.

Firstly, the clutch will go with an aggressive remap and 'hard' driving style (which it sounds like you have) and then the turbo will go. If you're lucky it won't take anything else with it.

Now maybe you've budgetted for these things but somehow I rather doubt it. Just remember when it kills the clutch or it blows up spectacularly and leaves you stranded that Celtic Tuning did say you maybe ought to go for a more gentle map and a new clutch.

If you search about you'll find plenty of people who have remapped cars with high-mileage clutches and they have died very soon afterwards.

Sorry if I sound like your dad, but actually, when I was extracting 120bhp (55bhp stock) out of my 125,000 mile SAAB V4 in 1980 my dad said the same thing and he was right. It did die spectacularly and expensively

[VRS Goldie Jon]

At the end of the day, a stage 1 isnt going to be harsh from somewhere like Celtic. As long as you let the turbo warm up and cool down between blasts, and dont boot until about 2.5k, you be fine.

90k on mine before my stage 1 map, now on 96k, still on the original turbo and clutch, no slip whatsoever.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

At the end of the day, a stage 1 isnt going to be harsh from somewhere like Celtic

It was requested for a harsh map, so i`d say it is. If your ok with replacing bits that go then its fine, you have to either go down the higher power/torque route and accept that, or tone it down a tad and things will last a bit longer

matt

[Si Vxr]

if the clutch goes then it goes im looking at uprating that now anyway as it is high mileage even though there is no slip and as for the turbo i always let it warm up fully and cool down fully this isnt the first turbo car i have owned and yes i dont floor it before it gets to 2500k and i change gear before 4k im not going to drive like a nob every where as i like my licence there is a time and a place im well past the drive it like you stole it stage older and wiser now but thanks for the advice

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

if the clutch goes then it goes im looking at uprating that now anyway as it is high mileage even though there is no slip and as for the turbo i always let it warm up fully and cool down fully this isnt the first turbo car i have owned and yes i dont floor it before it gets to 2500k and i change gear before 4k im not going to drive like a nob every where as i like my licence there is a time and a place im well past the drive it like you stole it stage older and wiser now but thanks for the advice

sounds like you`ll be loving the extra power then let us know how it goes! Remember to give it a good redlining once in a while though! lol

[wja96]

To be frank, if you'd had the clutch done first then you could have gone mental on the torque with the remap. Jabba won't go over 300lb/ft with the standard clutch, but there is 350-400lb/ft available if you have a clutch that can handle it. The turbo's are on borrowed time after 100,000 miles anyway, but the extra work you're asking of it will almost certainly hurry it's demise. But that's just a good excuse to get a hybrid, no?

If you look at a lot of posts, and I mean a lot of posts, you will see that very few people remap a car they didn't own from new without spending significant chunks of money to get it reliable. And the more aggressive the remap, the more money that reliability costs.

I talked to knowledgable people at several well-known remappers for a long time before deciding not to remap my own car because the extra 20bhp I would have got simply wasn't worth the hassle (my car, totally standard, with 20,000 miles on it did 148bhp on the RR at Power Station) and the general concensus was that if I wanted 400lb/ft of torque then I was going to have to get a £1000 clutch upgrade first (includes fitting).

I'm sure there was a thread where it was generally agreed that to make a remapped car as reliable as a stock car it actually cost roughly £2500 for a custom map, hybrid turbo, uprated clutch and other mods but that money would make the car pretty much bullet-proof reliability-wise for 50K miles, so it's not nearly as bad as it looks.

The great thing about this game is that time does tell.

[warwick hunt]

you need serious mods for 400ft/lbs and the parts alone will be well over £2500 without labour,

[wja96]

you need serious mods for 400ft/lbs and the parts alone will be well over £2500 without labour,

My understanding (and I could be very wrong indeed) is that there is a massive difference between what is required to extract 400lb/ft of torque with 140bhp and 400lb/ft of torque with 270bhp. There was a yellow vRS owner (NinjaAlex?) who was running over 500ib/ft of torque and 'only' 180bhp on a custom Jabba remap and effectively all he had was an FMIC, hybrid and uprated clutch. And I think the concensus was that he didn't actually need the FMIC. He tuned for torque first and foremost because he wanted the accelleration shove.

[T. Spark]

how long did it last though :-P

Days and days and days! Infact weeks and weeks and weeks! Infact months and months and months! Infact yea... oh wait. No.

My understanding (and I could be very wrong indeed) is that there is a massive difference between what is required to extract 400lb/ft of torque with 140bhp and 400lb/ft of torque with 270bhp. There was a yellow vRS owner (NinjaAlex?) who was running over 500ib/ft of torque and 'only' 180bhp on a custom Jabba remap and effectively all he had was an FMIC, hybrid and uprated clutch. And I think the concensus was that he didn't actually need the FMIC. He tuned for torque first and foremost because he wanted the accelleration shove.

Err, So are you saying its easier to get 400lb.ft with 140hp map than with 270hp? As the hp figure and torque figures are linked you know? Do you have a link to this 500lb.ft 180hp motor's RR? You wouldnt need a FMIC to get one single power run on a RR done, however if you wanted the turbo not to blow up and to actually have the quoted power for longer, then a FMIC is needed... so based on that last time, im gunna say no dont think so. However, id be happy to be prooved wrong as I want 500lb.ft! Infact with my hp figure surely I could get 650lb.ft? Maybe 700lb.ft?

[Si Vxr]

at the end of the day it is my car and if items go they go as with any tuneing you run the risk of stuff going pop it isnt as though ive gone from as has been said 55bhp to 120 bhp more than doubleing the power no ive gone for a map that has increased it by less than half OE yes its aggressive but is that not also controled by my right foot

[warwick hunt]

500ib/ft of torque and 'only' 180bhp on a custom Jabba remap ????

i find that impossible to believe.

[wja96]

Well, it was Ninja_Alex I was thinking of and I've PM'd him about it as my memory could well be faulty, but the 500 definitely stuck in my mind.

And yes, I am saying it's (relatively) easier to tune for torque than for power. Power and torque are linked, but there are plenty of examples of engines that have big torque and relatively little power, and the other way around too.

[Si Vxr]

cant see it my self but would be intresting to find out

[warwick hunt]

there wont be many cars in the country with 500 lbs/ft let alone a remapped 1.9tdi....

[wja96]

OK - I stand corrected -

I PM'd Alex and it was running 200bhp and 500Nm of torque. So the number was correct, just the (all important) unit was wrong.

[warwick hunt]

your all torque....

[dfullb]

OK - I stand corrected -

I PM'd Alex and it was running 200bhp and 500Nm of torque. So the number was correct, just the (all important) unit was wrong.

368+ Ft/Lbs

Dean

[Si Vxr]

quick up date for you all the car has been remaped for a week now and i have covered around 700 miles which included motorways A/B roads and my impressions of it are still my MPG has gone up from 37mpg to 40.2mpg and and thats with a heavy right foot as with any turbo car it has been allowed to warm up and cool down. i have tryed it on both V-Power and BPs Ultimax stuff and the V-Power seems to give the best allround peformance and econamy the pull in all gears is so much better it does take some getting used to as it is aggressive but once you learn how to control it with your right foot you can drive it steady im going to a rolling road tomorrow so i will get the true figs and report back but thats just pub talk at the end off the day im happy and would recomend them to any one

[Leeland]

im going to a rolling road tomorrow so i will get the true figs and report back

Don't forget mind, my money's on around 180bhp, would be very interested if it was very much more :wonder:

[T. Spark]

Mines more towards 169bhp and 295lb.ft... but we will see

[dfullb]

The Judge's Results should be in by now surely

& the Figure is ???????

Dean