Who said that???

Oi!

Over here........oh for pity sake.

Wouldn't they judder straight away if the hubs out?

Maybe not because appling the brakes to a new disc will help to even out the the hub but over time the disc will wear to the hubs bent side. If you know what I mean.

Edited 13 February, 201016 yr by vRSMart

right then guys, had a thourough inspection of the car and found a that a wishbone bush has worn and have now changed this, the juddering is still present did the 70mph=5mph 12 times and smoked the wheels, the judder went for 50-100miles but now the juddering is back ! arhhhhhhhhh! so then it must be the actual hub itself then as that the last thing that it can be? i hope! if this fails then i might just get complete driveshafts wishbones ball joints and suspension arms cos this is now doing my head in!

Edited 3 March, 201016 yr by cabbiestew

If the judder is going when you heat soak the brakes, I'm almost certain it's not the hubs. Have you tried using a non-standard brake compound, like fast road pads?

If the judder is going when you heat soak the brakes, I'm almost certain it's not the hubs. Have you tried using a non-standard brake compound, like fast road pads?

if i put fast road pads on will i need to change the discs again? and when i say it goes, it still there very slightly but the steering wheel doesnt wobble but then comes back serverly in about 50-100 miles and then the steering wheel shakes again

where would i get these so called pads?

if i put fast road pads on will i need to change the discs again? and when i say it goes, it still there very slightly but the steering wheel doesnt wobble but then comes back serverly in about 50-100 miles and then the steering wheel shakes again

where would i get these so called pads?

When you need to change discs, you have to change pads because worn pads won't bed in to new discs. The reverse is not true though; a set of discs will still last 2 or more sets of pads.

As to sourcing fast road pads, check the Site Sponsors section for a list of reputable companies.

Had this problem with both of my TDI's Changed the pads discs a few times,as id never had this problem on any of the BMW's id had before!!

All the suspension was new on both cars so i knew it wasnt that and the hubs where new too so it had to be either,

1)The friction materal which was Skoda OEM pads

2)or the discs which were ATE!

In the end i put VRS brakes on both and that sovled the problem.

But what is interesteing is that i phoned skoda to see what they said about the matter and they have had a few cars in that had the same problem and they never solved it!

The cars had new suspension arms, ball joints etc and new pads and discs and finally hubs but nothing cured it

It seams to be a weak spot with VAG cars, the brakes!

See the link in the fourth post & read it all the way through

Extract below, basically once its bad the only solution appears to be skimming the discs or new discs & then bed them in properly. The fact that it can be improved by heavy use of the brakes seems to rule out any other suspension / hub problems & point to a pad / disc problem.

From the Stop Tech link :-

Depending upon the friction compound, easy use of the brakes for an extended period may lead to the removal of the transfer layer on the discs by the abrasive action of the pads. When we are going to exercise a car that has seen easy brake use for a while, a partial re-bedding process will prevent uneven pick up.

The driver can feel a 0.0004" deposit or TV on the disc. 0.001" is annoying. More than that becomes a real pain. When deposit are present, by having isolated regions that are proud of the surface and running much hotter than their neighbors, cementite inevitably forms and the local wear characteristics change which results in ever increasing TV and roughness.

Other than proper break in, as mentioned above, never leave your foot on the brake pedal after you have used the brakes hard. This is not usually a problem on public roads simply because, under normal conditions, the brakes have time to cool before you bring the car to a stop (unless, like me, you live at the bottom of a long steep hill). In any kind of racing, including autocross and "driving days" it is crucial. Regardless of friction material, clamping the pads to a hot stationary disc will result in material transfer and discernible "brake roughness". What is worse, the pad will leave the telltale imprint or outline on the disc and your sin will be visible to all and sundry.

The obvious question now is "is there a "cure" for discs with uneven friction material deposits?" The answer is a conditional yes. If the vibration has just started, the chances are that the temperature has never reached the point where cementite begins to form. In this case, simply fitting a set of good "semi-metallic" pads and using them hard (after bedding) may well remove the deposits and restore the system to normal operation but with upgraded pads. If only a small amount of material has been transferred i.e. if the vibration is just starting, vigorous scrubbing with garnet paper may remove the deposit. As many deposits are not visible, scrub the entire friction surfaces thoroughly. Do not use regular sand paper or emery cloth as the aluminum oxide abrasive material will permeate the cast iron surface and make the condition worse. Do not bead blast or sand blast the discs for the same reason.

The only fix for extensive uneven deposits involves dismounting the discs and having them Blanchard ground - not expensive, but inconvenient at best. A newly ground disc will require the same sort of bedding in process as a new disc. The trouble with this procedure is that if the grinding does not remove all of the cementite inclusions, as the disc wears the hard cementite will stand proud of the relatively soft disc and the thermal spiral starts over again. Unfortunately, the cementite is invisible to the naked eye.

Taking time to properly bed your braking system pays big dividends but, as with most sins, a repeat of the behavior that caused the trouble will bring it right back.

Hi,

I'm a bit confused by this. I've always just treated new disks and pads with a bit of care and caution for a couple of 100 miles and then driven normally. I've not normally had a problem but I did once have a Rover 216GTi that had about 4 sets of discs in a year. I look back on this and suspect it was to do with a wheel I got from a scrapyard.

I've never heard of breaking in discs by using them heavily - is there more to it that I've missed?

I had new disks and pads fitted on Monday so I'm interested in how this pans out!

Thanks,

Martin

right then guys, had a thourough inspection of the car and found a that a wishbone bush has worn and have now changed this, the juddering is still present did the 70mph=5mph 12 times and smoked the wheels, the judder went for 50-100miles but now the juddering is back ! arhhhhhhhhh! so then it must be the actual hub itself then as that the last thing that it can be? i hope! if this fails then i might just get complete driveshafts wishbones ball joints and suspension arms cos this is now doing my head in!

Another suggestion for you before your head goes mushy. I have this problem on my BMW every so often, and it appears to be because the floating caliper doesn't float sufficiently, usually because the guide pins need cleaning (or lubricating with brake grease if this is allowed). The cause is that I don't usually brake that hard, and so the caliper doesn't need to move much. It then starts to stick, and then the piston on one side drives its pad onto the disc but the caliper doesn't "react" and move the other pad as much, or at all: so there's more force/movement on one side of the disc than the other, so it wobbles. I find, as seems to happen to you, one or more hard stops frees up the caliper for a while, but not permanently. If this is indeed your problem, it's a cheap fix, so perhaps worth a try. P.S. I've had the Octavia 4x4 1.8T for only a couple of weeks, so am a bit of an interloper on this site!

Another suggestion for you before your head goes mushy. I have this problem on my BMW every so often, and it appears to be because the floating caliper doesn't float sufficiently, usually because the guide pins need cleaning (or lubricating with brake grease if this is allowed). The cause is that I don't usually brake that hard, and so the caliper doesn't need to move much. It then starts to stick, and then the piston on one side drives its pad onto the disc but the caliper doesn't "react" and move the other pad as much, or at all: so there's more force/movement on one side of the disc than the other, so it wobbles. I find, as seems to happen to you, one or more hard stops frees up the caliper for a while, but not permanently. If this is indeed your problem, it's a cheap fix, so perhaps worth a try. P.S. I've had the Octavia 4x4 1.8T for only a couple of weeks, so am a bit of an interloper on this site!

I'd never actually heard of this being the cause of brake judder before, but it does make engineering sense.

this has been driving me mental on my W plate octavia (1.9 tdi glx) for some time now

my car has been juddering through the steering wheel when braking for a couple of months and i've had the brakes inspected, and they look fine...

I have now just had the front wishbone and front antiroll bar bushes all replaced (split and worn and generally dead) and although the car is miles nicer sounding over the speed humps with crisper steering, the brake judder remains

if i brake at any force from high speed, the judder through the steering wheel is nuts, wobbling like a jelly... it's only noticeable when braking from above appx 60mph mind you! once down into the 50's, the wobble clears up

Also, at much lower speeds, say 20mph to zero, if it's a medium to hard brake, then just before i stop moving, it makes a really bad sounding rubbing / grinding sound from the passenger side wheel arch, like something is touching something is shouldn't as the cal leans forward on the suspension.

i am confused... tye wear on the front is ok i suppose, even wear across the tyre, 18000 miles out of a pair of conti premium contact 2's, with about 2mm to go before it hit's the replacement indicator strip, and the tracking is dead on.... (even though the steering needs to be held at about two minutes past twelve to keep the car going in a straight line)

any car geniuses care to make a prognosis???

Thanks

matt