My local BT server went down during a session early this morning , as I was trying to get a repeat prescription from the docs and hadn't come back-up as of 10 o'clock.

Reported to BT Broadband who said my server was OK but that other servers (Colindale and Watford, NW London) within a 6 mile radius had gone done.

Line was checked as far as ADSL modem by both BT phone and broadband service and found to be OK. I checked the line back from the computer to the ADADSL modem and that was OK. Embedded troubleshooting routine in ADSL modem showed that whilst the modem was syncing with the exchange

no data was passing down the line.

Signing on to XP partition on my machine I got a message from BT wholesale that the server was down - this didn't show in the Vista partition.

The automated BT Broadband service 0800 number does not report any problems with broadband servers in my area.

So BT Broadband help line can't do anything and I'm left without a service.

Nick

sorry but ,,, and....

Whats the point your trying to ge across?

Since BT run plusnet and plusnet did a core router software upgrade the other day that appeared to fail, I would guess it might be related.

Quite why those chose to do the core router upgrade at what I consider to be a business hour is beyond me, but hey, not my call.

Edited 1 October, 201015 yr by cheezemonkhai

sorry but ,,, and....

Whats the point your trying to ge across?

Oft to be repeated by our female colleagues, "I been left hanging", whinge, moan. No service, No indication from the official BT sources that there is a problemno time/date of resolution. Somebody's sitting on my face, slashing down my neck and telling me its not raining.

Nick

Returned home from work about an hour ago, switched on, nothing, same as this morning.

Checked the Bt Broadband service outage 0800 number - no mention of server in my area being out.

ADSL modem diagnostic software said same as this morning - ADSL sync'd but no down link.

Decided at an outside chance to swap the microfilters. Rebooted the ADSL modem and, hey, back in business !

Swapped the microfilter back to the original and re-booted the modem again, still in business.

Did a minute change in voltage between the different filters trigger a routine at the exchange which re-engaged the service or was it a dirty BT plug in the Master socket or was it BT pushing the big red button ?

We shall never know.

What got me was that hardware problems like that don't usually occur at mid-session, its usually at start-up.

Postcript.

After doing a bit of research, I'm wondering whether the outage was BT and not my kit. Something to do with the changeover to the 21st Century Network system. Seems that as far as BT Wholesale is concerned the 21CN kit has been installed at my exchange and a node installed for the high speed ethernet . However, the BT Retail web site advises that the Infinity Service at 24 MB down won't be available until the turn of the year. So is it still in the commissioning phase ? Doing broadband speed tests I've noticed recently that the down-link on my 2MB/Sec limited pre-2003 contract is delivering 2.9MB/sec wheras at the beginning of the year it was sub 2MB/Sec. So somethings changed and its not my kit.

http://www.btplc.com/21CN/Whatis21CN/index.htm

Apparently, big savings for BT in rationalisation and simplification of systems mainly achieved by integrating the voice and data hardware within the area from the local exchanges to the trunking nodes. They're investing £10 billion over the period 2006-2011.

Reading the info on the above site raises a further worrying issue. One feature of the 21CN is that at the customer end of the service it integrates the exchange equipment for dealing with voice and data into one concentrator/multiplexor (MSAN). But it looks like that residential and small business customers will still have to rely on an analogue copper exchange/subscriber connection populated with voice and asynchrous digital signalling and contend with all the problems that has with roadside junction boxes and water penetration of underground cables. I think the cost of fibering up the "Last mile" is just too much. I think they are relying on plans to eventually stick copper based MSAN technology in roadside boxes and up the signalling rate through a reduction in signal degradation, achieved by limiting the cable runsto less than 1Km. But most of the boxes round here are at least 1930's. Can't see them being suitable to house masses of new kit. At some point beyond that, way in the future, I presume that the roadside box/customer link will become a fully enabled digital subscriber line with synchronous signalling and we'll all have to change our telephone kit -at least those of use without skype/home hub ?

Nick

Edited 2 October, 201015 yr by Clunkclick

My local BT server went down during a session early this morning , as I was trying to get a repeat prescription from the docs and hadn't come back-up as of 10 o'clock.

Reported to BT Broadband who said my server was OK but that other servers (Colindale and Watford, NW London) within a 6 mile radius had gone done.

Line was checked as far as ADSL modem by both BT phone and broadband service and found to be OK. I checked the line back from the computer to the ADADSL modem and that was OK. Embedded troubleshooting routine in ADSL modem showed that whilst the modem was syncing with the exchange

no data was passing down the line.

Signing on to XP partition on my machine I got a message from BT wholesale that the server was down - this didn't show in the Vista partition.

The automated BT Broadband service 0800 number does not report any problems with broadband servers in my area.

So BT Broadband help line can't do anything and I'm left without a service.

Nick

Have you just been migrated to 21CN (up to 20meg.) equpt. in the exchange. If so, big problem. The 21CN people are looking into this.

Returned home from work about an hour ago, switched on, nothing, same as this morning.

Checked the Bt Broadband service outage 0800 number - no mention of server in my area being out.

ADSL modem diagnostic software said same as this morning - ADSL sync'd but no down link.

Decided at an outside chance to swap the microfilters. Rebooted the ADSL modem and, hey, back in business !

Swapped the microfilter back to the original and re-booted the modem again, still in business.

Did a minute change in voltage between the different filters trigger a routine at the exchange which re-engaged the service or was it a dirty BT plug in the Master socket or was it BT pushing the big red button ?

We shall never know.

What got me was that hardware problems like that don't usually occur at mid-session, its usually at start-up.

Postcript.

After doing a bit of research, I'm wondering whether the outage was BT and not my kit. Something to do with the changeover to the 21st Century Network system. Seems that as far as BT Wholesale is concerned the 21CN kit has been installed at my exchange and a node installed for the high speed ethernet . However, the BT Retail web site advises that the Infinity Service at 24 MB down won't be available until the turn of the year. So is it still in the commissioning phase ? Doing broadband speed tests I've noticed recently that the down-link on my 2MB/Sec limited pre-2003 contract is delivering 2.9MB/sec wheras at the beginning of the year it was sub 2MB/Sec. So somethings changed and its not my kit.

http://www.btplc.com/21CN/Whatis21CN/index.htm

Apparently, big savings for BT in rationalisation and simplification of systems mainly achieved by integrating the voice and data hardware within the area from the local exchanges to the trunking nodes. They're investing £10 billion over the period 2006-2011.

Reading the info on the above site raises a further worrying issue. One feature of the 21CN is that at the customer end of the service it integrates the exchange equipment for dealing with voice and data into one concentrator/multiplexor (MSAN). But it looks like that residential and small business customers will still have to rely on an analogue copper exchange/subscriber connection populated with voice and asynchrous digital signalling and contend with all the problems that has with roadside junction boxes and water penetration of underground cables. I think the cost of fibering up the "Last mile" is just too much. I think they are relying on plans to eventually stick copper based MSAN technology in roadside boxes and up the signalling rate through a reduction in signal degradation, achieved by limiting the cable runsto less than 1Km. But most of the boxes round here are at least 1930's. Can't see them being suitable to house masses of new kit. At some point beyond that, way in the future, I presume that the roadside box/customer link will become a fully enabled digital subscriber line with synchronous signalling and we'll all have to change our telephone kit -at least those of use without skype/home hub ?

Nick

21cn is, and will always be delivered by copper to the customer. The 21 CN technology developed by Huwawei is on the cards to be abandoned. It was to be the network of the future, hence it's name, but Huwawei cannot develope a complete and suitable system for BT's needs, so that idea has gone out the window.

Fibre to the Cabinet (Infinity) is different technology and is gradually being rolled out across the country. Speed is to be limited to 40meg. although it is capable of more.

21cn is, and will always be delivered by copper to the customer. The 21 CN technology developed by Huwawei is on the cards to be abandoned. It was to be the network of the future, hence it's name, but Huwawei cannot develope a complete and suitable system for BT's needs, so that idea has gone out the window.

Fibre to the Cabinet (Infinity) is different technology and is gradually being rolled out across the country. Speed is to be limited to 40meg. although it is capable of more.

Thanks for the clarifictaion.

I was working on the belief that Infinity was just the name of the Retail package which ran on top of and at the edges of an essentially 21CN re-engineered hardware system and that only a hardware re-engineered 21CN model could deliver 40MB/sec down at the system edges on a single line.

Its all very confusing 'cause the installed kit list on the 21CN Webpage,, correct up to September 2010, shows my exchange, South Harrow, as already having 21CN kit installed as well as a high speed ethernet node.

http://www.btplc.com/21CN/Theroadto21CN/Keymilestones/Documents/WBCenabledexchanges.pdf

http://www.btplc.com/21CN/Theroadto21CN/Keymilestones/Documents/EthernetliveUKnodes.pdf

Can't think that having installed 21CN kit locally, that BT would spend more dosh locally to implement a separate FTTC system - or is this a Project manager's fib ?. However, I could forsee FTTC being implemented as a future adjunct to 21CN and that if anyone's going to get fibre it will be businesses first.

The Infinity web page says that the Infinity Service will be available at my exchange at the turn of the year, only at 24MB/sec down and i'm 1.5 Km from the exchange , That leads me to suspect that Infinity in my area will be initially implemented as be ADSL 2 + signalling running on Copper from an MSAN (Replacing the DSLAM ?) at the exchange.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_Digital_Subscriber_Line

The 21CN system diagram indicates that the MSAN/Subscriber link can be implemented as copper or fibre and that the link upstream from the MSAN is synchronous.

http://www.btplc.com/21CN/Thetechnologyofthenetwork/21CNtechnologyintheUK/21CNtechnologyintheUK.htm

http://www.btplc.com/21CN/Thetechnologyofthenetwork/21CNkeytechnologies/21CNkeytechnologies.htm

Also, I haven't seen an fibre laying activity or roadside box renewal round here in the last year and I don't think the existing 1930s boxes would be big enough, suitably environmentally or techically specc'd or secure to handle new fibre equipment.

There is an existing Telewest (Now Virgin) cable system that was installed round here on a fully distributed basis in the 1990s. I wonder whether BT will simply tap into that , as I believe Virgin are reported to have tapped into some BT local exchanges ?

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

Nick

The listed exchanges do have 21CN dslam's, which is the up to 20meg. service and delivered by copper all the way from the exchange to the customer. The broadband suppliers are gradually migrating their customers to this. It's not a product that individual customers can ask for and there is no difference in the monthly cost over the up to 8meg product. This service will always be available for the forseeble future. The exchanges it can be fitted in are ones where space for the equipment is available so we can not expect the very small exchange buildings in rural areas to have this as some are no bigger than a single garage or a garden shed.

FTTC (Infinity) is whereby the the DSlam is physically moved out of the exchange to the Green cabinet at the roadside and yes it will be an additional broadband service. You will know when it is available to you as there will be a new larger Green Cabinet within 50metres of the existing one, there no plans to remove the existing cabinet as this is needed to carry the copper line with your PSTN (dial tone). The FTTC cabinet or node as you call it does not at present go in the underground road/footway boxes.

The Infinity web site does show when the service is coming to your area and don't worry how long it takes as they are pretty quick installing the infrastructure. One important point to note is, that even though your exchange is on the list to be FTTC enabled it does not automatically mean that every Green Cabinet/node will be enhanced for FTTC. The local council has a say on whether BT can install extra street furniture and in the case of some high streets they have refused. The other consideration is purely based on the projected take up of the faster broadband and if it makes good business sense, BT want payback. Commercial and industrial areas have not so far been priorities.

FTTC is 40meg. max, the figure you quote of 24meg. I assume is the mean average but BT are are guaranteeing a minimum speed of 15meg.

As for the price to the customer, BT Retail are charging £29 per month, which is within £1 of the cost as Option 3 on the normal 8 or 20meg. product, a bargain I would say.

As for using the Virgin network, no, BT have no interest in this as the technology is not the same.

The reason why Virgin use BT lines to carry their services is because the Virgin network does not cover the whole country but like any commercial enterprise they want sell to any customer wherever they are and this is covered by the Unbundling process.

Nick, hope that settles your curiosity on whats happening, Regards Bernie.

The listed exchanges do have 21CN dslam's, which is the up to 20meg. service and delivered by copper all the way from the exchange to the customer. The broadband suppliers are gradually migrating their customers to this. It's not a product that individual customers can ask for and there is no difference in the monthly cost over the up to 8meg product. This service will always be available for the forseeble future. The exchanges it can be fitted in are ones where space for the equipment is available so we can not expect the very small exchange buildings in rural areas to have this as some are no bigger than a single garage or a garden shed.

FTTC (Infinity) is whereby the the DSlam is physically moved out of the exchange to the Green cabinet at the roadside and yes it will be an additional broadband service. You will know when it is available to you as there will be a new larger Green Cabinet within 50metres of the existing one, there no plans to remove the existing cabinet as this is needed to carry the copper line with your PSTN (dial tone). The FTTC cabinet or node as you call it does not at present go in the underground road/footway boxes.

The Infinity web site does show when the service is coming to your area and don't worry how long it takes as they are pretty quick installing the infrastructure. One important point to note is, that even though your exchange is on the list to be FTTC enabled it does not automatically mean that every Green Cabinet/node will be enhanced for FTTC. The local council has a say on whether BT can install extra street furniture and in the case of some high streets they have refused. The other consideration is purely based on the projected take up of the faster broadband and if it makes good business sense, BT want payback. Commercial and industrial areas have not so far been priorities.

FTTC is 40meg. max, the figure you quote of 24meg. I assume is the mean average but BT are are guaranteeing a minimum speed of 15meg.

As for the price to the customer, BT Retail are charging £29 per month, which is within £1 of the cost as Option 3 on the normal 8 or 20meg. product, a bargain I would say.

As for using the Virgin network, no, BT have no interest in this as the technology is not the same.

The reason why Virgin use BT lines to carry their services is because the Virgin network does not cover the whole country but like any commercial enterprise they want sell to any customer wherever they are and this is covered by the Unbundling process.

Nick, hope that settles your curiosity on whats happening, Regards Bernie.

Smashing mate. Thanks very much.

Nick

Phew!!! I thought you was going to come back with some more awkward questions.

Phew!!! I thought you was going to come back with some more awkward questions.

Just went into the front garden to put the bins out for collection tomorrow and spotted an "Openreach" 3 tonner parked-up on the main road verge , not 100 yards from my place, and operatives spooling out thick black cable froma drum. Time 00:12 !!!!. Talk about secret squirrel.

No doubt, there will be a big new green cabinet to compliment it when i leave for W O R K tomorrow.

Will now steel myself for a blitzkrieg of mailshots flogging Infinity (aptly named in describing the working day of BT operatives ) - we've already had the Virgin one about 2 months ago.

Madam osiris does it again !

Postcript

Here we go . . . .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11455649

Nick

Edited 4 October, 201015 yr by Clunkclick

They could be renewing copper cable, or pulling in the fibre tube. Is your exchange due to be FTTC soon?

just a little nugget of info for you in case you weren't aware.. bt run a system called BT FON, which is basically a wireless access point you can log into using your normal btinternet login details, they are often located in telephone boxes or cab boxes or in busy public places.. when my bt line went down it was really handy to still be able to get online securely

just a little nugget of info for you in case you weren't aware.. bt run a system called BT FON, which is basically a wireless access point you can log into using your normal btinternet login details, they are often located in telephone boxes or cab boxes or in busy public places.. when my bt line went down it was really handy to still be able to get online securely

The Fon network or Openzone is supplied by BT Broadband routers in customers houses. The way it works is you subscribe to Fon and give 0.5meg. bandwidth to the public and in return you can use the Fon wireless access points whever they may be. No, there none in the BT cabinets but maybe in Public places and Kiosks. A hot spot map is available on the Fon website but only if you are a BT Broadband customer.