Oh no, tyres again!

[hmibennett]

Apologies for a new topic when there are already threads on this subject, but I thought a fresh start might clarify things ... or not?

In today's 'ingear' supplement in the Sunday Times, Dave Pollard (in reply to a reader's question about tyres for driving on snow and ice in a ski resort this winter) writes: Despite their name, [winter tyres] are suitable for all-year-round use. Their compound contains more silica than normal tyres, which makes their grip considerably better when temperatures are below 7C. Performance is all but identical when warmer.

He describes changing wheels and/or tyres with the seasons as expensive and fiddly.

That sounds like anoutbreak of common sense to me - but is he right?

[The Plumber]

Well yes you could drive all year on winters; Fiat supply their Panda 4x4 from factory with winters as standard. However wear rate will be higher, as will most likely noise and being a softer compound you will get more side wall flex.

At the end of the day it's difficult to manufacture a tyre to suit all conditions, hence the options available. I'm still fairly convinced (without trying it out mind) that I could possible manage with one set of wheels for my driving needs, if they were 16" 215/60 with a good all season tyre.

This I might try in the future when I've worn out the current tyres :wonder: but I'm keeping my options open until then.

Regards,

TP

[Trevorminor]

Why not keep this in an existing thread?

It looks like all of the same old arguments will be regurgitated here and that seems a bit daft to me.

[Agerbundsen]

What TP said, with a few HHrrrummmph's:

The winter tyres were the question - not all season. All season tend not to do wet so well, and particularly not cold wet with a little ice thrown in.

The winter tyres have a couple of questions that I have yet to fnd satisfactory answers to:

1. Do they wear faster than the summer tyres when driven hot?

2. Do they do as well in the wet in summer as the summer tyres?

My gut feeling is that they do fine in the wet, but so far, I have seen no compaative tests.

For sure, they will not be as good as the current high speed performance summer tyres on dry roads at speeds above the most common national motorway limits.

I just measured the thread on my winter tyres. There is between 7 and 8 mm left from driving 16,000 km on them last winter. About half of that was Autobahn in at times 100 mph+. They are not noisy and felt quite stable in cornering and braking. I suppose they started out with something like 10 mm thread depth or less. I could conclude that there are another 16,000 km left as winter tyres, with 4 mm thread left - which could go for another 5-10,000 for summer use.

Edited 24 October, 2010 by Agerbundsen

[hmibennett]

My apologies if I have contravened some sort of etiquette by not keeping within a previous post but this seemed a very specific (and topical, ie today's newspaper) point.

In response to a previous answer, my wife has a Panda Cross 4x4, indeed with all-season tyres, which are wearing well but do produce an awful lot of road noise. This little car performed brilliantly in last winter's weather - but it is very little!

[The Plumber]

Hi Agerbundsen,

going on my own observations and comparisons between my summer and winter options.

Googdyear summer tyres on the front appear to be going through 1mm approximately every 3000 miles compared to Nokian winters at around 2500. Goodyear's are also quieter and they corner better when it's warm. Admittedly there is a size difference, so the handling aspect could be purely down to this alone.

Wet weather performance was I feel about equal between them in warm weather and obviously better with the winters in cold.

Regards,

TP

[Agerbundsen]

Hi Tim,

I'll get winter tyres on this afternoon. They are the same size as the summer Goodyears, so in the next days, I will get a feel for the difference in handlling.

The summer Goodyears failed miserably in winter straight line braking in the winter simulation test on the skid pan last summer, duplicating your experiences, although a differnt size from your 17 inchers - which might even be a little worse.

Edited 25 October, 2010 by Agerbundsen

[EdmundBlackadder]

My apologies if I have contravened some sort of etiquette by not keeping within a previous post but this seemed a very specific (and topical, ie today's newspaper) point.

In response to a previous answer, my wife has a Panda Cross 4x4, indeed with all-season tyres, which are wearing well but do produce an awful lot of road noise. This little car performed brilliantly in last winter's weather - but it is very little!

Don't apologise. Tyre threads seem to go off on tangents at times so a new one every now and again on a specific subject is well worth it. Which make of tyres were on your wife's panda? When my Yeti tyres are worn down I am tempted to go with all season ones but I hate road noise. It may be that they are all a little noisier but every bit of information helps.

Incidentally my wife had a Fiat 500, virtually the same as a Panda, and it also had no problems last year. For one week when the snow was at its worst I parked up my Volvo and the 500 was the sole method of getting around. They would be great little rally cars.

[Agerbundsen]

CURIOUS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:

I have just taken my winter's down from the loft, washed and thoroughly measured them out. measurement was taken 1/3rd in from the outside shoulder, as one assumes the outsides wear the most. It does not really look like they wear anymore outside than at the same spot inside.

Ihad expected the fronts to wear the most, but no. They measure evenly 8 mm thread depth left on all 4.

Even wear side to side and no indications of any weird patterns.

Loks like one has to revised the expectation that the winter tyres wear faster than the summer ones - at least in winter driving.

They have 16,000 km on them, and probably had 10 mm original thread depth. Conclusion: The 2.4 bar all round seems to be OK - for me and my driving.

Edited 25 October, 2010 by Agerbundsen

[The Plumber]

Hi again Agerbundsen,

the Nokians were just over 8mm tread depth new, the fronts after about 3000miles are on 7mm (hence my conclusion of 1mm for 2500)

The rears however are on 7.5mm

Like these wear indicators on the Nokians, can see what you have left without having to get the depth gauge out every time

Regards,

TP

[Agerbundsen]

Bloody clever, those Finns, aren't they?

It also looks like there is a winter thred depth indicator in the groove to the right of the numbers. Makes it easy for the Finnish Plods to quickly see if they are legal.

[AnotherGareth]

1. Do they wear faster than the summer tyres when driven hot?

2. Do they do as well in the wet in summer as the summer tyres?

The only information I could find that attempts to answer these questions was an article on the TyreReviews website.

I had already selected the all season tyre mentioned for one of our cars so I was able to reassure myself I'd made a good decision

[Dr Zoidberg]

Like these wear indicators on the Nokians, can see what you have left without having to get the depth gauge out every time

That's a bloody brilliant idea.

I'm impressed

[The Plumber]

Bloody clever, those Finns, aren't they?

It also looks like there is a winter thred depth indicator in the groove to the right of the numbers. Makes it easy for the Finnish Plods to quickly see if they are legal.

Yes also have 4mm winter and 1.6 summer 'wear bars' no chance of getting it wrong, so if caught it's 'a fair cop gov'

TP

[yellowyeller]

Why not keep this in an existing thread?

It looks like all of the same old arguments will be regurgitated here and that seems a bit daft to me.

Grumpy!!!

[900000]

That's a bloody brilliant idea.

I'm impressed

As am I! Now that is simple clever engineering! Love it.

[hmibennett]

Don't apologise. Tyre threads seem to go off on tangents at times so a new one every now and again on a specific subject is well worth it. Which make of tyres were on your wife's panda? When my Yeti tyres are worn down I am tempted to go with all season ones but I hate road noise. It may be that they are all a little noisier but every bit of information helps.

Incidentally my wife had a Fiat 500, virtually the same as a Panda, and it also had no problems last year. For one week when the snow was at its worst I parked up my Volvo and the 500 was the sole method of getting around. They would be great little rally cars.

Tyres on my wife's Panda Cross are Continental Winter Contact 175/65 R15. As I said, performed extremely well last winter but are a bit noisy in daily use - wouldn't enjoy long journeys on bad surfaces.

[Agerbundsen]

The only information I could find that attempts to answer these questions was an article on the TyreReviews website.

I had already selected the all season tyre mentioned for one of our cars so I was able to reassure myself I'd made a good decision

The article gave a good answer for #2, so now we will see if anyone takes it further.

This is the first comparison between summer and winter I have ever seen. Great find, and the conclusion sorta matches my expectations.

Addition:

Just changed to the winters. They are a little gentler to drive on, but response is close to the summer tyres. The noise is slightly different, but not significantly higher. The slip angle is a little higher, but with neutral steering of no real consequence.

Edited 25 October, 2010 by Agerbundsen

[Trevorminor]

Grumpy!!!

No, just fed up with all the consequent repetition!

[hmibennett]

I am duly mortified but constant repetition becomes helpful to one of my advanced years.

[oldstan]

No, just fed up with all the consequent repetition!

But isn't repetition part and parcel of forums? People come and have a similar question but, perhaps, with a different emphasis. And does it really matter that much?... surely if it's too repetative for one or two then they can avoid reading those particular threads. No-one is obliged to study a particular topic. In view of two bad weather years and with the first frosts of the year then it becomes a more significant issue. Also, hopefully, the more interest people show in different aspects of winter tyres, the more it may come to the attention of manufacturers and suppliers and the more available they may become...and with that might come better pricing for us all. I feel sure the moderators would be disposed to combine the threads if it became advantageous.

[900000]

But isn't repetition part and parcel of forums?

It is and I for one don't mind it. Something new comes up every time.

What I would like though is folders under the "Yeti Owner's" section. Then all the tyre stuff will be in a folder, exterior stuff in another, a folder for servicing, radio and sat nav, interior things, general, etc. That would take a lot of perhaps perceived repitition away since things will be logically positioned and easier to search. As it is things filter down to page 2 or 3 and is then totally forgotten hence the same subject comes up again. I'm sure the moderators must have had this suggested before. If not how about implementing it?

[oldstan]

It is and I for one don't mind it. Something new comes up every time.

What I would like though is folders under the "Yeti Owner's" section. Then all the tyre stuff will be in a folder, exterior stuff in another, a folder for servicing, radio and sat nav, interior things, general, etc. That would take a lot of perhaps perceived repitition away since things will be logically positioned and easier to search. As it is things filter down to page 2 or 3 and is then totally forgotten hence the same subject comes up again. I'm sure the moderators must have had this suggested before. If not how about implementing it?

As a newcomer I'm not likely to come in and recommend changes to an existing system but this does sound like a sensible idea.

[loadswine]

Repetition can bring new slants on things, but it can play havoc with the search function, as you will eventually get many results for some key words.

Nice to see most people on here are polite about these things though, I often see wars break out on other forums over similar.

[EdmundBlackadder]

I do not find the search function works very well so unless a person can see the relevant topic in the first 1-3 pages then it is inevitable that topics are repeated. It was certainly the case of previous forums that I have looked on. What I have found in the past though is that when the same subject gets repeated quite often then the replies become more concise and informative as people have learnt from previous long threads. As an example if someone posted now regarding "is it possible to fit mud flaps yourself" there are enough people who have done this that can answer the post within 1 or 2 replies rather than 20-30 replies.

The filing system does sound a good one but that may be a lot of work for someone and take a lot of time to maintain.