OK - after a terrible journey home last night, I decided foolishly that it was a good idea (for the good of Briskoda of course) to 'test' the capability of my newish Scout. It's a diesel and is fitted with Dunlop SP01's 225/50R17 summer tyres.

Just down my road is Westwood Park hill - not massive by Brecon Beacon standards, but it rises to about 100m altitude in a shortish distance and has good views over London. The top is about 1 in 6 and it also has wide speed humps which make maintaining any speed a challenge. There was 8ins of fresh snow with one or two compacted tracks, the temp was -1C and it was snowing heavily.

OK I got 3/4s of the way up, before the car slowed down to a halt - I assume will all wheels spinning even on tickover in first. Scarily, the footbrake would hold position, but when I went for the handbrake the car slid back about 10ft until it found some grip.

I got the spade out and cleared a track in front of the car for about 15ft - this was enough to get it moving but again it lost traction on the frash snow and gradually stopped. It took 3 stops and a lot of clearing to get to the top, but it did make it. On the top of the hill in 8ins of snow, the car was absolutely fine - not a huge amount of grip but enough to accelerate, turn and brake without any great drama. The decent was on another hill, longer and less steep - done at a crawl because of the ice in the compacted tracks.

Looking this morning - the tracks are still there - I guess I was the last car to (be stupid enough to) get over the hill.

I learnt from this:

- get winter tyres if you need to rely on a Scout for transport in the snow and there are hills - Haldex is good but the Dunlops aren't up to it

- the hillhold feature keeps position better than the handbrake - don't be surprised if the car slides back when the hillhold disengages

- the car handles pretty well on the level in fresh snow

- the worst fuel economy I have had from my diesel was 4.1mpg

Note - people are sledging on the hill this morning!

Edited 1 December, 201015 yr by London Les

Les, I've just shown my wife your article because she had been grumbling about me splashing out on winter tyres and steelies (Nokian WRG2's which are fantastic by the way). "Why do you need them with a four wheel drive?" She asked. Thanks Les for a good answer with pictures.

Wow! That is some hill! I wonder what my winter tyred Yeti will do with that hill?!

Les, I've just shown my wife your article because she had been grumbling about me splashing out on winter tyres and steelies (Nokian WRG2's which are fantastic by the way). "Why do you need them with a four wheel drive?" She asked. Thanks Les for a good answer with pictures.

Surely sending her out in her car and then in yours would provide all the answers she needs!!

Everyone in our house is a convert!

Niall

(working from home cos the nursery will shutting early, whilst the the good lady "borrowed" my car!)

Glad the post has been of use! I think with winter tyres, the car would have made it to the top OK because the ice wasn't completely hard and slick - it still had a bit of bite.

The discussion in our house has been about 'do we REALLY need the car to get about in the snow/'. If the answer is yes then I am going down the route of steel wheels and Nokians or Vredsteins, although I would love some of those Xion alloys owned by Krimatt on this forum.

Scarily, the footbrake would hold position, but when I went for the handbrake the car slid back about 10ft until it found some grip.

- the hillhold feature keeps position better than the handbrake - don't be surprised if the car slides back when the hillhold disengages

Doesn't the handbrake only operate on the rear wheels?

Doesn't the handbrake only operate on the rear wheels?

Yes - that's right. It was pretty touch and go, because I had to get out to do shovelling, so couldn't rely on the foot brake. In hindsight - I should have put some weight in the back to help.

Well done! A lot of people have criticized these Dunlops that they wear fast, noisy etc etc, and i've done 10K miles and just swapped them for winters and the tread is not even 30% gone. I've driven them on scary stone roads on mountains, massive rain in autobahn at any speed and they have been great.

All the wight will to the back on uphill so rear tires with handbreak on will be easy to slide the car backwards. HillHold is a must gadget for those who live on uphills and where i live it's always a que on rush hour back home so very helpful.

Thanks to the Dunlops we are blackmailed into winter tyres. Why didn't they gave us fourseason tyres?

Thats up to Skoda to shell for the extra costs of 4 seasons. Actually i bet that's VW decision. And i would personally not like 4 season tires as car default as those are inferior to proper summer tires or winter ones. Jack of everything and master of nothing.

Edited 1 December, 201015 yr by CEPi

I think we should have the choice if we buy a new car. I drive a lot and take my car to the Alps in the winter, so I need winter and summer tyres. But with low mileage and in a mild climate I think fourseasons can be a good choice.

Great info Les - I've got Vredestein Sportrac 3's on my 4x4 but didn't get out today because we've got about 14" of snow so figured I'd not got enough clearance. Some of it is now packing down though to closer to 8" so I may give it a whirl tomorrow as the Vreds seem much better than my previous Dunlop SP01's that you've fed back on.

Ahhh, the joy of living in more temperate climes - and having the Pirellis, which seems to do OK on the mud and gravel that is more my issue here in Oz.

FWIW, here in Australia carrying snow chains is mandatory for all vehicles in Alpine regions during winter (yes, we do have some!)

Kent

Scarily, the footbrake would hold position, but when I went for the handbrake the car slid back about 10ft until it found some grip.

I did a 4x4 activity day, and they taught us to never use the handbrake for precisely that reason.

Ahhh, the joy of living in more temperate climes - and having the Pirellis, which seems to do OK on the mud and gravel that is more my issue here in Oz.

FWIW, here in Australia carrying snow chains is mandatory for all vehicles in Alpine regions during winter (yes, we do have some!)

Kent

You should try a set of Goodyear Wrangler AT/Rs then. They've been alright in the snow too (so far), but you'll need some 18" wheels unless Goodyear's range is different over there.

I really can´t understand why anyone is even considering driving in winter without wintertyres. Tyres are just as important as the car in winter.

The scenario of being stuck with a car with "offroad" capabilities and other small cars just cruising by because they have proper tyres embarrasses me.

All season tyres are basically poor in summer and even worse in winter. In my country we will get huge fines for not having proper winter tyres fitted.

After all, most of you have bought brand new cars; take the cost of having god tyres on them. :yes:

All season tyres are basically poor in summer and even worse in winter

I agree with you for poor performance of most allseasons, but actually a small number of allseasons (eg Goodyear) have good test results for the Winter and are ok for the Summer. It also depends on your residence and intended use, if you live in an area with a mild climate and no steep hills, and if you drive only 10.000 km/year, all seasons might be the best choice. But for nordic or alpine conditions, I agree, you have to go for winter tyres to get maximum safety for yourself and other people.

Three years ago I nearly crashed on Summer tyres when I got surprised by a late snowstorm (powder!) by the end of March. That is why I invested in 4x4 and A-brand winter tyres.

Still pretty impresive anyway, these cars are amazing

I bet the kids sledging are really cursing that one set of tyre tracks this morning.

There's been a shed load more snow since my 'experiment' so its excellent for sledging now. You can get some 'air' over the road humps! I've not tried a repeat performance, but the Scout has been excellent on flatter roads.

Doesn't the handbrake only operate on the rear wheels?

I was particularly interested to read this account because of an experience I had last year in our Mk1 fwd Octavia ... I was in a long mostly stationary queue on a hill, and the road was covered in ice and water. I found that when facing uphill, the car would feel like it was infinitesimally sliding backwards when held by the handbrake, but felt secure when held on the footbrake. There wasn't enough movement to be easily visible; it was just an uneasy sensation I had sitting in the driver's seat. I imagine the difference was because of the extra purchase provided by the front wheels being braked, as others have suggested.

Curiously this contrasted with facing downhill, when the handbrake alone felt secure. I have no explanation about why this might be so.

I have a question for Les but would be interested if anyone else can explain ... you mentioned not being able to continue uphill a number of times. Could it be the case that the Haldex system cannot provide enough torque to individual wheels to keep the car moving?

Edited 2 December, 201015 yr by AnotherGareth

I have a question for Les but would be interested if anyone else can explain ... you mentioned not being able to continue uphill a number of times. Could it be the case that the Haldex system cannot provide enough torque to individual wheels to keep the car moving?

I think the adhesion on the snow with winter tyres in was so bad, all 4 wheels were spinning - even just on tickover. I could see the slick patches of ice created by the tyres. Think I've seen the Haldex 4 can shove 80+% of the engine torque into any one wheel. I was barely using any gas however, and the wheels were spinning with no sign of stalling the engine.

I think the adhesion on the snow with winter tyres in was so bad, all 4 wheels were spinning - even just on tickover. I could see the slick patches of ice created by the tyres. Think I've seen the Haldex 4 can shove 80+% of the engine torque into any one wheel. I was barely using any gas however, and the wheels were spinning with no sign of stalling the engine.

The Haldex can only send the power to where there is traction. In this case not a single wheel had traction hence all four of them spinning.

See the first video in this thread:

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/159259-4x4-systems-tested/

The car manual advises to turn off the ESP when moving over loose snow.

New Skoda's can not turn the ESP off, only Traction Control. But that should help in deep snow spinning wheels but on snow that is directly under ice that is of no use.

Winter tyres may provide a little more traction on the scout in the snow but in my experience no crossover or in fact any 4x4 part or full time that sports 225" boots is THAT good in the snow - the best effective solution for climbing snow covered 1-in-4's is skinny thick tread tyres & low ratio locked 4x4 at a steady speed.

I make do with standard summer tyres with ESP OFF in the white stuff, this has been ok for me, the important thing is to keep your wits when tackling a steep climb & keep the speed steady!

There of course is no such thing as a 'good car' on black ice!

Edited 3 December, 201015 yr by wilkopilko