favorit battery keeps going flat

[bebop256]

the battery in my skoda black line keeps going flat. if i don't use my car for a day then i have to use a portable battery to start it.

the battery is new and only started to happen recently.

i had the rac out to look and he said he couldn't find anything wrong and suggested it might be intermittent.

it's very annoyng because i have to go and run the engine everyday even if i don't drive anywhere.

if i don't then i have to use the portable battery.

the only thing that i can think of that i have used that is diffferent, that i can think of, is the rear window demister.

any help would really be welcome. i'm not too keen on paying an autoelectrician until i have some idea of what it might be.

the other thing is my car passed it's mot in november with just a replacement o/s/f lower arm.

many thanks

[RADIOTWO]

Hi bebop

You say the battery is new, but it does sound like a battery problem, but you say you have to run the engine every day to keep it so you can use it, but sounds to me as if you don't use the car very often !, but as you are not using it, you will never charge up the battery, in fact just as a rule of thumb, it takes 40 miles of driving just to get your battery back to the state it was just before you started it, in other words every time you start the car you need to run it for at least 40 miles !

and its no good just leaving the car ticking over, you won't get full output.

What you need to do is do a few checks your self, first check the battery voltage, then when the engine is running re measure the voltage, and report back.

but don't forget if you don't use the car, the battery will never charge up

Radiotwo

[Cepheuz]

realy dont think that your battery is the problem, that is, if its realy new (and not been sitting in the shell for a long time) probably you have the radio wire wrong (not to turn of with the ignition, or something else

[iansmith]

My battery is ancient (out of a previously owned diesel Astra) and relatively huge,still good.

Most of my runs are local.

This weather (lower than 0c) I do not use top gear in order to keep the revs, and alternator output, higher.

It hasn't failed me in years.

Do they get lower than 0C in the Dominican Republic ?

I think these do the job at NotALot

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12-VOLT-LED-BATTERY-ALTERNATOR-TESTER-600mm-CABLE-12V-/260605648291?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3cad4e9da3

http://motors-parts.shop.ebay.co.uk/Diagnostic-Tools-Equipment-/30921/i.html?Item%2520Type=Battery%252F%2520Alternator%2520Tester&_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A3445&rt=nc&_nkw=led&_dmpt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1

Edited 8 December, 2010 by iansmith

[djaychela]

Disconnect the negative connection to the battery with everything turned off and then use a multimeter to see if the car is drawing any current (it shouldnt be doing anything significant at this point), and let us know how much current it is drawing. My friend's wife's Beetle was drawing about an amp!

[bebop256]

thanks for all the replies guys.

anyway, i found the the problem, sort of, when i disconnect the stereo the car starts fine every time.

i had the stereo installed by road radio, and they just put a connector for the model of radio rather than an iso and an an adapter, which means i can only plug that model of radio into my car. ?????

i also had 2 6x9 parcel shelf speakers fitted by a company called hyde park corner, via halfords.

i haven't done anything else other than fit a plug so that i can remove the parcel shelf completely.

so it could it be the stereo is a problem, the speakers or maybe some water is causing a short some where.

just to add, i asked road radio to make the stereo independent of the ignition, so that i could tune it on and offf without the key in and the ignition turned on.

anyway i've removed the facia to see if that will help. i heard sometimes car stereos wired this way still drain power and removing the face can switch them off. failing that i will have rewired to come on with the ignition.

many thanks

Edited 28 December, 2010 by bebop256

[RobinSLXi]

just to add, i asked road radio to make the stereo independent of the ignition, so that i could tune it on and offf without the key in and the ignition turned on.

That's most likely to be the issue, then - since there's no physical isolation from the battery, it's probably drawing enough standby current to make a difference, even when it claims to be 'off' at the front panel (as mentioned earlier). Even more so if you have a separately powered amplifier, since these generally don't have any kind of power switch at all.

I'd say it's less likely to be a wiring fault - a short in the power supply would blow fuses, and a short in the speaker wiring should be instantly noticeable as a lack of output (isolate each speaker using the balance and fade controls to confirm), not to mention the potential burnt smell/magic smoke as that channel of the amp overloads itself and dies.

[bebop256]

That's most likely to be the issue, then - since there's no physical isolation from the battery, it's probably drawing enough standby current to make a difference, even when it claims to be 'off' at the front panel (as mentioned earlier). Even more so if you have a separately powered amplifier, since these generally don't have any kind of power switch at all.

I'd say it's less likely to be a wiring fault - a short in the power supply would blow fuses, and a short in the speaker wiring should be instantly noticeable as a lack of output (isolate each speaker using the balance and fade controls to confirm), not to mention the potential burnt smell/magic smoke as that channel of the amp overloads itself and dies.

thanks for the reply/

i left the face off for about 5 hours and so far no problems, usually the battery woud be drained.

hopefully i can just do that rather than have it rewired.

will leave it until tomorrow and see what happens. i'm hopeful though. much easier and cheaper to remove the face than pay road radio to bodge it up again.

many thanks

[poorly_felicia]

thanks for the reply/

i left the face off for about 5 hours and so far no problems, usually the battery woud be drained.

hopefully i can just do that rather than have it rewired.

will leave it until tomorrow and see what happens. i'm hopeful though. much easier and cheaper to remove the face than pay road radio to bodge it up again.

many thanks

i wouldent say that they bodged it, its more like you ASKED them to bodge it LOL

Car stereos have 2 power feeds - one which requires power 27/7 regardless of ignition to keep the memory alive, usually labelled as MEM+. This usually draws such a stupidly small amounjt of current it often wont even register on a multimeter, and if it does its only going to be 1 or 2 mA max.

The other power is the main supply, this needs to be fed via ignition otherwise its not uncommon for a 500mA to 1A draw on this line even with the stereo "off". That sort of current drain will discharge a battery from 100% to 0% of cranking capacity in a matter of hours. Therein lies you problem, you really, really should get that rewired into the ignition circuit!!!

Gav

[bebop256]

i wouldent say that they bodged it, its more like you ASKED them to bodge it LOL

Car stereos have 2 power feeds - one which requires power 27/7 regardless of ignition to keep the memory alive, usually labelled as MEM+. This usually draws such a stupidly small amounjt of current it often wont even register on a multimeter, and if it does its only going to be 1 or 2 mA max.

The other power is the main supply, this needs to be fed via ignition otherwise its not uncommon for a 500mA to 1A draw on this line even with the stereo "off". That sort of current drain will discharge a battery from 100% to 0% of cranking capacity in a matter of hours. Therein lies you problem, you really, really should get that rewired into the ignition circuit!!!

Gav

no, i mean they used a specific connector for my stereo rather than a generic iso connector then an adapter for my stereo. it means that if i wanted to change to a different one i would need to have it installed again rather than just use an adapter.

besides they never mentioned anything about a power drain to me at the time.

Edited 29 December, 2010 by bebop256

[anewman]

The car itself uses a standard ISO connector which does NOT require any kind of adapter for any stereo you can buy in Halfords etc etc. The only need for an adapter would be if you were to try use a stereo which originally was installed in another brand of car and used a different connector.

The switched live feed to the stereo in the Felicia is constantly on, which is a rather poor design. The solution is to tap into a switched live feed from the ignition switch or fusebox and use that instead - or to add an inline switch you can turn off yourself.

To be honest I cannot imagine a turned off stereo in itself would consume all the battery within a day.

[bebop256]

The car itself uses a standard ISO connector which does NOT require any kind of adapter for any stereo you can buy in Halfords etc etc. The only need for an adapter would be if you were to try use a stereo which originally was installed in another brand of car and used a different connector.

The switched live feed to the stereo in the Felicia is constantly on, which is a rather poor design. The solution is to tap into a switched live feed from the ignition switch or fusebox and use that instead - or to add an inline switch you can turn off yourself.

To be honest I cannot imagine a turned off stereo in itself would consume all the battery within a day.

the car had an original blaupunkt cassette radio that slotted into the connector and halfords changed it all for a specific pioneer one.

now the car starts with no problem but there's no sound from my parcel shelf speakers?

Edited 29 December, 2010 by bebop256

[anewman]

There's no such thing as a "specific Pioneer one" it's a standard ISO connector, which is what should have been in the car from new. It's just a case of unplugging the original Blaupunkt and pugging in the Pioneer - easiest job in the world on a Favorit, I fail to see how Halfords have had to make so much effort on it. As mentioned the only problem is that the switched live is wired as always on, which can only be sorted by rewiring (not with an adapter).

An independent auto electrician (these places usually install stereos etc) should be able to sort things out, would avoid Halfords like the plague.

[bebop256]

There's no such thing as a "specific Pioneer one" it's a standard ISO connector, which is what should have been in the car from new. It's just a case of unplugging the original Blaupunkt and pugging in the Pioneer - easiest job in the world on a Favorit, I fail to see how Halfords have had to make so much effort on it. As mentioned the only problem is that the switched live is wired as always on, which can only be sorted by rewiring (not with an adapter).

An independent auto electrician (these places usually install stereos etc) should be able to sort things out, would avoid Halfords like the plague.

ok, road radio wired in the smaller end of this type of connector. nothing in between and no iso socket or plug.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pioneer-Stereo-Loom-16-Pin-ISO-Car-Radio-Leads-/250704947375?pt=UK_Audio_TV_Electronics_In_Car_Entertainment_GPS_In_Car_Audio_Players_PP&hash=item3a5f2de8af

[anewman]

Ah so they chopped off the ISO connector in the car and wired the car's wires directly to the connector at the back of the Pioneer stereo? Seems most unusual and bodgy, wouldn't visit that stereo installer again. The manuals that come with the Pioneer stereos are usually quite good at identifying wires from colours etc, should be downloadable from the Pioneer website. Should help you check the rear deck speaker wiring. If you join them at the plug end with a paperclip you can test for continuity (resistance) at the stereo end to see if the wiring is okay.

[bebop256]

Ah so they chopped off the ISO connector in the car and wired the car's wires directly to the connector at the back of the Pioneer stereo? Seems most unusual and bodgy, wouldn't visit that stereo installer again. The manuals that come with the Pioneer stereos are usually quite good at identifying wires from colours etc, should be downloadable from the Pioneer website. Should help you check the rear deck speaker wiring. If you join them at the plug end with a paperclip you can test for continuity (resistance) at the stereo end to see if the wiring is okay.

thanks for your help. this is the exact model.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pioneer-DEH-2220UB-Car-CD-MP3-IPOD-Player-Stereo-Radio-/350420422638?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_CDPlayerSeparates&hash=item5196af4fee

[RobinSLXi]

Doubly bizarre, since the unit should have come with the necessary ISO socket-to-proprietary plug adapter lead anyway, giving no need for any chopping - I'd suspect the rear speaker fault stems from that unnecessary rewiring. The pinout for that Pioneer connector doesn't seem to be readily available, but the installation manual at least says which colour wires do what, which should help. Bear in mind if you're referring to Haynes wiring diagrams at any point then 'left' and 'right' may be reversed when it comes to the colour of the car's speaker wires in a RHD car (this is certainly the case with the Felicia manual)

anewman: The Japanese manufacturers have kept proprietary head unit connectors very much alive and well, not to mention changing them every few years for no good reason (and more surprising is that it's not just Sony doing it as you'd expect) - they do at least concede to chucking an ISO adapter in the box, though. That said, I wouldn't trust anything to be 'standard' in this field - half the pins on the ISO connector are used for pretty arbitrary purposes, which for example on newer VAG cars can lead to fun like innocently blowing up dealers' expensive diagnostic machines with your aftermarket radio

[anewman]

which for example on newer VAG cars can lead to fun like innocently blowing up dealers' expensive diagnostic machines with your aftermarket radio

People just join the blue wire not knowing or caring about its real function. Guess that's VAG's fault for deciding to use that pin for diagnostic purposes though.

[Hancock]

Hi, I am having the same problem, where my battery goes flat after 2 or 3 days without being used, I have checked with multimeter the drain, which is appox 0.58 amp, so that would appear to rule out any discharge being caused by either the Radio or alternator. I have tested both output of alternator and discharged testing of the battery. I am just wondering if the starter motor is suffering from "lazy starter motor symptoms"

i.e the windings are worn inside the starter, and is trying to draw too much power to compensate, and because the battery can't give that extra power needed, it gives the impression that the battery is flat.

.this would not normally happen with a FULLY charged battery, my reason thinking is the battery seems to recover quite quickly from a charge, I have Sealey RS1 1000amp power pack, even that seems to struggle to get me started on some occasions (normally when it's really cold)

[RobinSLXi]

Hi, I am having the same problem, where my battery goes flat after 2 or 3 days without being used, I have checked with multimeter the drain, which is appox 0.58 amp, so that would appear to rule out any discharge being caused by either the Radio or alternator. I have tested both output of alternator and discharged testing of the battery. I am just wondering if the starter motor is suffering from "lazy starter motor symptoms"

i.e the windings are worn inside the starter, and is trying to draw too much power to compensate, and because the battery can't give that extra power needed, it gives the impression that the battery is flat.

.this would not normally happen with a FULLY charged battery, my reason thinking is the battery seems to recover quite quickly from a charge, I have Sealey RS1 1000amp power pack, even that seems to struggle to get me started on some occasions (normally when it's really cold)

Have you measured the voltage across the battery whilst cranking? If it drops significantly that would confirm the battery is struggling to provide the current asked of it. I'd also check the battery and starter motor terminals are clean and in good contact - if necessary measure the voltage drop across the cables (e.g. battery +ve to starter +ve) whilst cranking - anything significant here is indicative of too much resistance in the cable/connections pushing the current draw artificially high.

[bebop256]

thanks fo all your replies. you guys know so much more than me makes me feel a bit stupid.

anyway, to update.

my car has been ok recently, the only thing that i haven't reconnected are the rear speakers.

car starts with no problem even when left for a few days.

i will put the rear speakers back on and see what happens.

i also noticed a blue wire that had bullet connectors but wasn't joined together, should i leave it or push the wires together?

thanks again.

[RobinSLXi]

i also noticed a blue wire that had bullet connectors but wasn't joined together, should i leave it or push the wires together?

Hmmm, I don't think anywhere in the original wiring uses bullet connectors, so that sounds like it may be a modification or part of the added stereo wiring - could even be a simple reason for why the rear speakers weren't working. I'd try to trace at least one end of the wires to somewhere to figure out what they're for before connecting unknown things, but generally I'd say the chances of doing it being a catastrophically bad idea are fairly low

[bebop256]

ok, i found out the blue wire is for the unit remote control, so i left it as it was.

i reconnected the rear speakers and will leave over night to see what happens.

thanks

[bebop256]

anyway, i put the rear speakers back and the car starts no problem.

whatever was wrong isn't anymore.

after all that ithinking of selling, i know this isn't the place but i've seen a 1995 nissan 100 nx i like. so if anyone here wants my little blackiline.

thanks for all the help