Mysterious Coolant Leak

[Clarkey666]

Hi All,

Posted about this recently. My car is going through coolant at an alarming rate, went from max level to below min on a 70 mile drive this morning.

She's at the garage now, and they can't seem to locate the source of the leak after having her on the ramps running. They think coolant may be running into oil and suggested k-seal to try and solve it. However, when I checked the oil it was fine so I don't think that is the problem and said I didn't want the k-seal option as it sounds like a temporary fix; not what I'm after.

Anyway, they're keeping her overnight and are having a more in-depth look in the morning.

I'm a bit concerned. I've read of potential causes, like radiator temperature sensor, radiator fan switch and so on, but are these immediately identifiable?

If anyone can share their experience or knowledge I'd be grateful. I'd just like it rectifying properly without risking any damage to the engine.

Hopefully it'll be straightforward enough once identified, and fingers crossed it won't cost the earth.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[ap0gee1978]

Barring a cracked cylinder head (unlikely), any coolant loss problem should be easy and pretty cheap to fix. K-Seal / Radweld have their place, but only temporarily as you say. The G12 leaves a pretty unmissable crust anywhere it leaks from, so check all hoses and sensors, plus the bottom corners of the radiator and water pump seal.

Hope you find the leak soon!

[tarnie2011]

check where the heater matrix comes thru the bulkhead,

also head gasket may have gone, get the garage to stick the electronic probe used for the mot into the expansion bottle, or if its really bad you can smell the exhaust gases yourself

also check around where water pump is for leaks

[VRS_SE_047]

See if there is pressure in the header tank first thing in the morning, if yes get your head gasket checked. There should'nt be any pressure after the car has cooled down

[ap0gee1978]

I'd only worry about HGF if following this gives you cause for concern:

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/HOW-TO-TEST-FOR-A-FAILED-HEAD-GASKET_W0QQugidZ10000000001891247

Sorry it's all in capitals (I didn't write it) but the reason I say it is that I was worried my car had suffered HGF for the reason given above, but it turned out that the expansion tank cap - which acts as a pressure relief valve - was faulty.

[Clarkey666]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The garage tell me the leak originates from the heater matrix (someone correctly suggested that in another thread of mine). Having ordered parts yesterday, they've been working on it today, I'm hoping to pick it up tomorrow. Hopefully it'll be all sorted. It may end up costing more than I'd thought, as apparently it is an awkward and time consuming job.

Still, if it adresses the problem I'll be content.

I'll post to let people know the result.

ap0gee, I replaced the coolant cap- it was worth a bash for £8, though sadly didn't work! Nevermind eh?

Thanks again.

[Clarkey666]

Hi guys,

So the problem is the heater matrix. The garage had to take the dash out and found it damaged, so it'll be replaced tomorrow morning.

As they've spent quite a while locating the problem and as I understand it is an awkward job anyway, it'll be around £500. Does this sound about right??

More than I thought it'd be, but if it remedies the fault then so be it.

[Clarkey666]

Anyone?

Was just after your opinions as to whether the bill is reasonable, thats all. Whilst it might have been cheaper to thrash it out myself, I don't have the time or patience required.

In their defence, the guys at the garage did attempt to rectify the problem from the engine side first, therefore potentially providing me with a smaller bill. Upon realising it could not be sorted this way, they've been honest enough to let me know and keep me informed as to what they're doing.

Perhaps unavoidable, but it just seems like a firm kick in the spuds to brace yourself to be without your car for a couple of days for a couple of hundred quid, then it turn to five days and £500.

I'm sure someone must understand my predicament.

[mogwye]

I know what you mean when it's a big amount for a reasonably simple job - why not ask them for an exact break down of the bill - don't forget that a fifth of it will be VAT.

It could have been much worse if it had been a cylinder head gasket job !

DB.

Edited 13 January, 2011 by mogwye

[Guest BigJase88]

Heater Martix on most cars is a nightmare....

i replaced mine on my saxo vtr, now its a small car made of cheese and it still took me a full day with a walkthrough guide....

basically the whole dash had to come out, steering wheel, centre console, indicators, wiper motor

its not a 5 minute job im afraid

all in all it took me about 8 hours :(

Edited 13 January, 2011 by BigJase88

[ap0gee1978]

Doing the evaporator temp sensor the 'proper' way costs about that (dash out job, as well) so yeah it's probably right. Sorry.

[Clarkey666]

Many thanks gents.

I was just after some reassurance regarding the price of the job, and now I've got it. Muh appreciated.

Obviously its unfortunate that it'll cost so much, but as long as its a fair price and solves the problem I don't object.

Hopefully picking her up later, with a fresh bottle of coolant just in case, so I'll post up more details when I have them.

Again, thanks for your replies, great help

[Clarkey666]

Ok, so I picked the car up Friday at 5pm. Paid just over £500 for the work done, which was as mentioned a new heater matrix and pipes, dash out etc.

Firstly my sub wasn't working and the cupholder jobby I have underneath the stereo wasn't refitted properly as it wasn't sitting flush. Plus it turns out they've broken one of the air vent splines. Not a good start.

Managed about 6-7miles down the road from the garage and the all too familiar coolant warning light comes on. I called the garage straight away and told them. The mechaninc told me it would be an air lock, and to top it up with the coolant they'd left me in the passenger footwell.

This I did, and made about another 5miles down the road, coolant warning light again. Sure enough, coolant level was way below minimum. Called at a petrol station for some water, topped it up again.

By now I was getting a tad suspicious, concerned and somewhat angry. Another 5miles or so and PING! Coolant warning light again.

I'd travelled about 20miles and topped up 4 times before I folded and was recovered by the AA; I had a 70mile journey to cover and couldn't see it being completed.

I had the car recovered to the garage, who by now of course were closed and were not answering their mobile contact number. I got a call from the mechanic on Saturday morning asking what the problem was. I explained, he apologised and is collecting the keys from me tomorrow.

Needless to say I'm massively peeved, as the good lady made a 140mile round trip to get me, and has done just now to bring me back to work, plus being stood at the side of a busy carriageway for most of Friday evening. I got home at 11pm.

I'm hoping the garage will complete the work they've been paid for and may offer some recompense, but my confidence in them is hardly high so I'm not holding my breath.

Anyone experienced such incompetence in a similar case? I took it to this garage as it claims to be a VAG specialist, with ex VW and Skoda techs.

I'll keep this post updated, any of your opinions and experiences are welcome, and I particularly invite any advice you may have as to how to deal with the garage.

Cheers, Iain.

[ap0gee1978]

That's really bad news. I imagine it's probably a hose that's not been attached properly, but it's still very poor service!

[Guest BigJase88]

thats shocking!!

[Clarkey666]

An update.

Chap from the garage came and picked the key up this morning and said he'd call around lunchtime to let me know the score, assuring me he'd sort it out. I got the call at 1530 to tell me it was leaking from the heater matrix, the very component they replaced.

Potentially then, it may be due to the new heater matrix being faulty. They've ordered replacement hoses and another heater matrix, and are going to do the entire job again when the parts arrive tomorrow. In addition to this, they've ordered two new heater vents to replace the ones they broke (originally I thought it was only one, turns out they broke splines on two).

I'm expecting to hear from them tomorrow afternoon late on, hopefully with news that it is no longer leaking and is ready to be colected.

Well, fingers crossed everyone.

I'll update when I know more.

Edited 17 January, 2011 by Clarkey666

[vRSLen]

At lest they should know to do it after a practice run

All the best mate

[Clarkey666]

Righto everyone, here is the final (I hope) update on this topic.

The garage called to tell me the car was done yesterday, and drove it 12 miles to me at my place of work to drop it off with me. Again, the chap apologised and said they'd identified a

hairline fracture in the heater matrix they had fitted to replace the original faulty one.

Whilst he was there I took the opportunity to check the coolant level, it was fine. I then drove a further 5 miles and checked it again, still fine. Since then I've driven two 75 mile journeys;

no coolant warning light and the level is fine.

The two vents the garage broke have been replaced.

In fairness, they've done the job. However, whilst I acknowledge mistakes happen, I sincerely doubt I'll be returning there for future work; as that level of incompetence is for me

simply unacceptable. In addition to that, the seats are filthy now, and I mean filthy. I can see it taking some time to get them back to their usual state of cleanliness.

I'm just relieved to have the car back and running as it should (fingers crossed).

I won't go so far as to name and shame the garage, but if anyone wants to know which place I would avoid taking your car to in Northallerton, North Yorkshire, give me a shout and I'll

PM you.

Thanks for all your posts, advice and opinions.

[hockeylad72]

Sounds like a decent garage to me, a hair line crack would not be easy to see especially when the part is new you would not expect to be damaged?

I think you might be a little harsh to not go back there again, its not their fault that a part was supplied damaged/ faulty. You have given then a chance to fix the problem and by the sounds of things they have.

Happy motoring.

Davie

[Clarkey666]

Perhaps you'd have a different view if YOUR car had been damaged (TWO broken air vents, interior left looking like it had been trampled all over by mechanics),

you'd had to be recovered on a Friday evening (meaning a 70 mile journey took 6 hours) after coolant leaking WORSE than it was BEFORE you took it to the garage (despite their invoice saying they'd ran the car and all was ok),

and you'd been without your car for almost two weeks as a result- the car was booked in and dropped off on a Monday, collected on the Friday, promptly returned and finally dropped off with me the following Wednesday.

I'd think a competent garage would actually check the car was in full working order before they returned it to the customer, a reasonable expectation, which clearly wasn't done thoroughly enough.

In addition to this, the fact that the chap who drove my car over used a plastic seat cover was nullified by the state of the seats.

Fair enough, they eventually sorted the problem the car went in for. However, they did not have the integrity to own up to breaking the air vents- all the vents were moved to the closed position, it was upon opening them I discovered the broken splines (not broken prior to going into garage). That hardly inspires confidence. Plus, as said before, I take pride in the cleanliness of the vehicle, and the state they left the interior was simply disgusting.

This sort of service may be considered acceptable to some, which mystifies me, but it certainly is not acceptable to me.

I expect to collect my vehicle with the fault fixed, and with the vehicle in the same condition as I left it (ie. clean seats), first time. Considering the garage in question is a supposed specialist, I honestly think that level of service is to be expected and provided.

[mtren]

Just reading this thread through and it makes interesting reading.

I've had a Fabia 1.4 classic since 2001. I only do low mileage - my car has currently got about 56k on the clock.

For several years I've had an array of problems including the use of coolant - reguarly have needed to top it up. Other problems have included the EPC light pernamently displayed and after using several garages at large costs no-ones found a proper cure - I've had a cure for a few weeks but then it's come back.

Last MOT in March 2010, the garage I've regularly used warned that this could be a Head Gasket going and that I'd need to be careful. Problem was that they said the job could cost as much as £800 to do due to the parts, the skimming needed and the labour.

Managed to go alright until January this year, when during one night my car was immensely sluggish - just couldn't pull away without it stalling and my 2mile journey took on about 6 stalls.

Next day having taken it to the garage, the mechanics found 'mayo' around the engine and coolant had been contaminated.

I was faced with one of two options pretty much. Either get the head gasket done - at a possible cost of £800, or forget about it and get another car - although that would be second hand. After discussions with mechanic, parents etc I opted to replace the gasket. In conclusion apart from the gasket and the stupid EPC light that doesn't seem to cause problems, the car's in good nick - it's got low mileage and I'd be unlikely to pick anything else up in such good condition for such a low cost and in addition i wouldn't know its previous history.

So after a week in the garage, I got my car back. The cost of the job ended up being over £960 - apparently something else needed replacing in addition - I cant remember what off hand. But the car was ok, true the stupid EPC light was on, but no coolant light.

It managed about 3 weeks, say 300-400 miles including one long trip, but now the stupid coolant light has gone off again - on a couple of journeys.

I'm now going to have to go out and check on the levels and top up.

My question is, what do I do if the coolant needs topping up? What happens if there was another fault?? I don't want to pay any more out for something I've just paid £960 on! As it was ok for 3 weeks, is that a problem??

Clarkey when you had your problems with something not being fixed I'm presuming you didn't end up paying more?

[Guest BigJase88]

If the coolant level is okay and its just the light all you need is a new coolsnt resevoir! Around £20-30

[MoggyTech]

+1 ^ or also water pump if not replaced when head was done.

[Polo6n1600i]

My radiator is screwed - my new rad is on its way!

[Clarkey666]

mtren, no I did not pay any more in my case. I politely made it clear to the owner of the garage how displeased I was, and he did the whole job again with replacement parts without further cost to me.

Its hugely frustrating having this kind of problem. I'd probably follow Jase and MoggyTech's advice in your position.

Hope you get it sorted.