I have a Philips ambilight TV (model no: 42PFL7623 LCD TV. the first one just packed up after 4 months and parts were not available at the time to repair so curry's gave me an exchange, Now the same model of TV has packed up after 20 months and is now out of warranty.

The Mrs was dusting and heard the TV switching on itself and when I looked it seems to switch on itself then power down but on pressing the power button there is nothing but it keeps trying to power up by itself. We have tried unplugging it for 2 hours and its still the same. There is no red standby light flashing like you mostly get.

Is it safe to open these up or is it dangerous, I know the old valve/tube tv`s used to hold very high voltages but plasmas and lcds just seem to be mainly boards, just wondered if it was worth taking a look to see if there is anything obvious going on.

Phillips want £135 call out and a £50 collection fee which is £185 in total even before they take the back off!!! so could be quite expensive if a main board has gone down.

Can i pursue this as a consumer as I think its disgusting that you can go through 2 failed tv`s of the same manufacturer in 2 years and not have some protected - all I get of curry's is that I should of taken out the extended cover but surely things should last longer than this for crying out loud is was £1,695.

I think manufacturers cram so much into these TV`s now that they fail due to ventilation problems, My brother in law had a Phillips plasma that did a similar thing and that was beyond economical repair down to the cost of Philips parts I am really fed up this has happened.

Two TV related 'problem' threads in one day!

I don't think Currys realise that the TV should be fit for purpose and that a 20 month old TV would not be considered so. So even though Philips is the manufacturer, Currys is the company that your contract is with.

Isn't there a '6 year' limit that's classed as a reasonable time to expect things to last?

Push harder - shout louder!

Sounds like it may be a power supply fault, possibly a transformer or capacitor failure. I doubt you'll see anything by opening it up - it's one of those situations where if you knew what to look for, you probably wouldn't have asked, so I'd err on the side of caution since even 240V isn't exactly a gentle tickle, and there's still higher voltages in the backlight inverters.

I'd suggest getting a local independent TV specialist to have a look - I've got an older Philips 30" LCD that has needed transformers replacing at least twice for the same fault (complete loss of picture) and even if the TV engineer who fixed it easily hadn't been my girlfriend's dad, it still wouldn't have cost as much as you've been quoted there

Yep as someone else has said take it up with Currys and then failing that Trading Standards. Anybody would 'reasonable expect' a TV to last a lot longer than 20months....especially when you have paid that much for it.

I have just had a 20 month Dell laptop repaired 'out of warranty' once i started spouting the Sales of Goods Act to them!

Currys don't want to know, just been up to see them and they say they had a big fall out with Philips and no longer stock their TV`s so was pointed back to Philips, who don't want to know as its not in warranty.

Incidently the TV is now completely dead - I have replaced the fuse but still totally dead so maybe is something to do with the power supply. I phoned a local guy about this and he says he has 4 Philips models with the same chassis design on his bench but cant get the parts for them.

I was told unless Philips agree to look at it or I pay the massive fee of £135 to come out and £50 for collection that I would struggle, I have been told by 2 independent guys that Philips tend to only supply parts like boards/inverters to "authorised" repair centres.

Cant win, I am going to try a few others and if I get the same responses then will look into calling trading standards. I even lost the original receipt but luckily curry s keep a record of all TV sales and anything that they take a name and address for, for 10 years so I managed to get a copy of my receipt.

What good it will do who knows, No wonder people drop TV`s and claim on their house contents when things are like this.

Currys don't want to know, just been up to see them and they say they had a big fall out with Philips and no longer stock their TV`s so was pointed back to Philips, who don't want to know as its not in warranty.

Incidently the TV is now completely dead - I have replaced the fuse but still totally dead so maybe is something to do with the power supply. I phoned a local guy about this and he says he has 4 Philips models with the same chassis design on his bench but cant get the parts for them.

I was told unless Philips agree to look at it or I pay the massive fee of £135 to come out and £50 for collection that I would struggle, I have been told by 2 independent guys that Philips tend to only supply parts like boards/inverters to "authorised" repair centres.

Cant win, I am going to try a few others and if I get the same responses then will look into calling trading standards. I even lost the original receipt but luckily curry s keep a record of all TV sales and anything that they take a name and address for, for 10 years so I managed to get a copy of my receipt.

What good it will do who knows, No wonder people drop TV`s and claim on their house contents when things are like this.

Well go back until Currys DO WANT to know. Doesn't matter if they have fell out with Philips, the contract is between you and the store.

Currys don't want to know, just been up to see them and they say they had a big fall out with Philips and no longer stock their TV`s so was pointed back to Philips,

Falling out with Philips is totally irrelevant and their problem - not yours.

Likewise, your 'fault' problem is also down to Currys to resolve. Start escalating the matter by putting things in writing.

Thanks for the help, Currys just seem to point out that I should of taken their extended warranty for peice of mind, I am going to phone them and ask for the head office but feel by the time things get sorted and it seems a big if then it will be ages without a tv.

Will keep you posted though. Cheers.

Thanks for the help, Currys just seem to point out that I should of taken their extended warranty for peice of mind, I am going to phone them and ask for the head office but feel by the time things get sorted and it seems a big if then it will be ages without a tv.

Will keep you posted though. Cheers.

Yeah thats where they have got you by the short and curlies the fact you wont have a TV - Hire one until its sorted or borrow one!

They will always try and point out you should have took out their extended warranty! Its not worth the paper its written on at the end of the day as the SOGA is all the extended warranty you need!

I would start by sending a formal, legally worded letter pointing out the SOGA and your rights and give them 7 days to arrange repair/replacement. Send to head office and send recorded!

Thanks for the help, Currys just seem to point out that I should of taken their extended warranty for peice of mind, I am going to phone them and ask for the head office but feel by the time things get sorted and it seems a big if then it will be ages without a tv.

Will keep you posted though. Cheers.

An additional warranty is in addition to your statutory rights it doesn't replace them.

There is a limit of 6 years on claims but that doesn't mean that you have a 6 year warranty on everything. But as said 2yr for a tv is not 'reasonable' to the 'reasonable man' ( A gentleman on the Clapham omnibus circa 1933).

Small claims court action is cheaper than your repair (<£120 I think). I'd mention your intention to take them to court in your letter to DSG.

Edited 19 January, 201115 yr by Aspman

I'd go back to Curry's and let them know that unless they take your problem seriously you'll be informing Trading Standards and also issuing a claim in the Small Claims Court. Also mention to Curry's the EC Directive on consumer goods and the Sale of Goods Act:

http://www.wak-tt.com/tt/2yearwarranty1.htm

All new goods must have a warranty of at least 2 years, so 20 months is obviously still well within the limit. Also, white goods and electronic goods must be fit-for-purpose for at least 7 years. Again, welll within your limit, although recognition of this limit has be fought for through the claims courts as no retalier or manufacturer will easily allow you to exercise this right.

To start a claim in the Small Claims Court costs about £50, plus further costs of approx. £100 along the way if the claim procedes (which it might not because Curry's will almost certainly back down). All this will be paid back if you win, which you definitely will.

Also, try writing to the national papers' consumer help pages like the Guardian's Consumer Champions in the Money section ([email protected])

For info on small claims court see here:

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/GetLeaflet.do?court_leaflets_id=183

and here:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/legal_system/small_claims.htm

Good luck buddy. Don't take no for an answer, you're protected in law. It's a shame that the manufacturers and retail outlets are not more forcibly made to adhere to them.

UPDATE: You will not believe this, I got a local TV bloke round and he took a look at it, unscrewed the back took the main multimedia PCB board out and the Main Power board, then he got out some tin of cleaner it smelt really strong and he cleaned both boards replaced them and then screwed the back on.

And then switched it on and it works!!! had no probs with it tonight and he only charged me £20, Its like he knew what was the problem he said because I have it wall mounted above the gas fire and have been using it then this is not good for any TV as the heat rises and in time dries the joints on the boards so they cant make the correct contacts. In some cases it can put a film of grease on the board also.

At first he thought it may have been a capacitor that had blown but checked this and all was fine. I wonder how many more tvs can be fixed with this magic can of spray, dont know what it was but it stunk the house out.

Still cant get over it - Just hope it lasts.

Edited 20 January, 201115 yr by justinbarrow

UPDATE: You will not believe this, I got a local TV bloke round and he took a look at it, unscrewed the back took the main multimedia PCB board out and the Main Power board, then he got out some tin of cleaner it smelt really strong and he cleaned both boards replaced them and then screwed the back on.

And then switched it on and it works!!! had no probs with it tonight and he only charged me £20, Its like he knew what was the problem he said because I have it wall mounted above the gas fire and have been using it then this is not good for any TV as the heat rises and in time dries the joints on the boards so they cant make the correct contacts. In some cases it can put a film of grease on the board also.

At first he thought it may have been a capacitor that had blown but checked this and all was fine. I wonder how many more tvs can be fixed with this magic can of spray, dont know what it was but it stunk the house out.

Still cant get over it - Just hope it lasts.

It will be circuit board or flux cleaner.

You will probably want to move it away from the gas fire though, or you will get things getting too hot.

Currys seem to have a policy to manage the sale of goods act. Keep denying it as loud and as long and as awkwardly as possible and most customers go away. I gave up over a 2 year old washing machine when they were insisting on an independant engineers report at huge cost if I could not prove my case. However I am no longer a potential customer for future purchases.

It must seem to work and save them money as they consistently do it. God knows what it does to customer loyalty though.

Conversley Argos replaced a camcorder which was 2 years old without any issue at full purchase price with a voucher. What they didn't realise due to their system was that this was the 3rd camcorder replaced since the original purchase over 5 years before. A limited ability £600 buy slowly evolved into a rolls royce model which did everything.

It will be circuit board or flux cleaner.

You will probably want to move it away from the gas fire though, or you will get things getting too hot.

Its still working what do you mean mate when you say things will get too hot, do you mean the boards and components because this cleaner might dry a board.

I have noticed that before the TV sound used to go off when switching between HD and normal definition TV now the sound stays on when switching from HD to Standard Definition. Dont think we will put the fire on, Just use the heating after this.

What would a circuit board cleaner do to enable it to function again? cant still get over how a bit of spray sorted it. Just keeping my fingers crossed now.

Edited 22 January, 201115 yr by justinbarrow

It's the worst place to mount a flat screen TV.

As well as the heat from the fire, soot from it will be affecting the TV as well. That's why mounting the TV over a fireplace will void your warranty. In your case, the TV didn't stop working because of a manufacturing fault, it was because of where you mounted it. That's why retailers will want a report stating why it failed, in this case they would not have been liable anyway.

We had a TV returned to our store and refunded because our delivery/installation guys refused to mount it over the customers fireplace. They knew it would void warranties and told the customer so.

On the subject of Philips though, we are very glad that we don't sell their crap any more.

It's the worst place to mount a flat screen TV.

As well as the heat from the fire, soot from it will be affecting the TV as well. That's why mounting the TV over a fireplace will void your warranty. In your case, the TV didn't stop working because of a manufacturing fault, it was because of where you mounted it. That's why retailers will want a report stating why it failed, in this case they would not have been liable anyway.

We had a TV returned to our store and refunded because our delivery/installation guys refused to mount it over the customers fireplace. They knew it would void warranties and told the customer so.

On the subject of Philips though, we are very glad that we don't sell their crap any more.

You know that its a coal fire then? Don't see how mounting a TV over a fireplace would void a warranty..it doesn't say anything in my manual along those lines. The heat from a fire is thrown outwards and then upwards more so than just upwards. If that is the case then surely the warranty would be void if you mounted above any type of heat source?

Have to agree on the subject of anything Phillips though :wonder:

Edited 22 January, 201115 yr by jrw

Samsung are one manufacturer who will void the warranty if mounted over a fireplace. Anything that burns will produce some soot, you just see it more with a coal fire.

It would not be good to mount a TV above any heat source, such as a radiator. Besides, mounting it up high is actually too high for viewing comfort. It should be mounted so that the centre of the screen is at your eye line when seated. Higher than that can give you neck pain after a while.

Its still working what do you mean mate when you say things will get too hot, do you mean the boards and components because this cleaner might dry a board.

I have noticed that before the TV sound used to go off when switching between HD and normal definition TV now the sound stays on when switching from HD to Standard Definition. Dont think we will put the fire on, Just use the heating after this.

What would a circuit board cleaner do to enable it to function again? cant still get over how a bit of spray sorted it. Just keeping my fingers crossed now.

The Flux cleaner will be ok, however leaving a PCM exposed to heat and combustion products isn't ideal. The first will bring out dry joints (poor soldering) sooner than otherwise and the latter will cover the board in crud causing the effects you saw.

Phillips are always winning awards for picture and sound quality, then throwing customers away due to shoddy design and reliability.

I know of a lot of places that wont stock them due to the excessive returns rate.

As for Currys, they are a bunch of hand shandy experts.

The TV still seems to be working OK...touch wood maybe the board had something on it that needed cleaning off - just hope it carries on working.

We got the Philips because of their picture quality and they are up to now the only manufacturer who do the "Ambilight" feature basically led lights behind the TV that reflect off the wall, looks quite nice. Just seems a shame that their reliability seems to be going downhill.

Phillips are always winning awards for picture and sound quality, then throwing customers away due to shoddy design and reliability.

I know of a lot of places that wont stock them due to the excessive returns rate.

As for Currys, they are a bunch of hand shandy experts.

Currys, part of the Dixons group and hence :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Kalms,_Baron_Kalms

As for Phillips, its al;ways been the same. Having been the biggest domestic electronic brand in Europe for the last 70 years. They did distinguish themselves in UK TV field by having a reputation for unreliability. That may well be "French wine" syndrome i.e. "We'll keep the best stuff for ourselves". In the'70s you could possibly attribute this poor reliability to unsatisfactory quality control in the European Factories. But that probably isn't the case now, as, like most of these bods, all they do now is have their badge stuck on a Samsung equivalent manufactured out east. They must just write poor specs, possibly deliberately as part of company policy.

Whereas in the past, a few manufacturers were known to short change the product quality/reliability ihn exchange for a budget price. They are all doing it now . Noticeably, a lot of the German ones - somebody's got to pay for re-unification and its ain't going to be Mr Bosch.

Its all about corporate survival/dominance by brand recognition and grabbing the largest bit of volume sales you can. Once the brand is established, you can, to a certain extent let quality/reliability go. Even dear old VW do it. Just look in your car manual to see the miriad of minor features which were avaiable on the vehicles which came off the initial production line to what's included in yours. look what happened to Mercedes when they went for a bigger market share or VW parts shortages now whilst trying to maximise their sales stake in the Eastern markets. A product sale is just a minute component of corporate income stream. And the most important object in corporate life is to, year-on-year, maximise the overall quantity of corporate income to fine limits in order to support, at a constant rate, the incomes of management and shareholders. To this end, whilst increasing sales volumes associated with economic growth provide a sizeable boost to corporate incomes a little more can be squeezed out of the consumer if product design life spans are progressively reduced in line with the growth of consumer disposable incomes.Its noticeable that product life spans have been reduced in line with the growth of consumer disposable income since WW2 - whereas the consumer of the 1950s could just afford to replace say a piece of white goods every 10-15 years, by the 70s that was down to 7-10 years and now its about 3-7 years and product design specs have followed suit. Its a funny old model of economic growth that requires that products are engineered down to the lowest standard technically achievable. Domestic product life spans and reliability are fast approaching the limit where people are forced, in order to maintain a standard of life, spend so much time off of work waiting for repair men to turn up or taking products back to the shops that their own contribution to national economic output is damaged.

So much for labour saving machines !

The marketeers know that they are dealing with a much more fragmented and differentiated market than in years gone past and that th number of suppliers has mushroomed. Customer loyality secured by product quality and reliability is no-longer an objective as it was when the number of customers/suppliers was limited, as the main determining factor for the next sale in the mass market now is price. So, im afraid, we are all doomed to poor quality consumer sh*te for here-on out.

Nick

Edited 29 January, 201115 yr by Clunkclick