STOP THE GOVERNMENT SELLING OFF THE FORESTS

[PersonaNonGrata]

Sent to my local MP today:

Dear Mr Menzies,

I write to protest against the sell of the remaining minority of the forests of this country. I believe it is the wrong thing to do for many different reasons including the following.

1. Within the Consultation Document there are no provisions for preservation of car parks or picnic areas.

2. Like many, I do not believe that higher rights like cycling routes will be preserved when financial pressures are forefront

3. Every year there are legal cases brought against private owners who have illegally closed off rights of way

Insurance pressures will likely lead to the closure of mountain biking centres and education centres.

4. There will be a negative impact on tourist areas like the Lake District and the country as a whole.

5. If these forests are used as tax sheltering mechanisms for the well off then others, like myself, will have to make up the shortfall or national services will suffer yet more cuts.

6. It probably will not lead to any more jobs through non forestry operations. 82% of the forests are already in private hands and they have failed to generate a significant quantity of non-forestry jobs. They have had plenty of opportunity to do so.

7. The classification of 70% of the forest estate as 'conifer or mixed woodland' without any objective metric about the mix percentage could allow private companies to destroy areas that are ostensibly broadleaf by planting and farming conifers in amongst the broadleaf (I have many photographs of the effect of this practice on broadleaf if you are interested)

8. Privatisation of this finite resource will inevitably result in less forestry jobs as the private sector always seeks to do more, but with less people!

9. Sale of the 'Heritage' forests to 'communities' and charities is a non-starter. Costs currently borne by the Nation will be transferred to only those that visit the forests. Financial pressures will then likely lead to cost cutting and sale of assets. These forests are assets of the nation and should be administered as such.

10. I have personally experienced what private land lords can do, including the closure of Rigg Wood on the banks of Coniston Water. So no amount of assurances will persuade me that they are a benevolent force for the good.

Regards

[FellyMagic]

I hope you get a snotty reply telling you to stop moaning. Many of us are fed up to the back teeth of you droning on & on, and talking out of your backside with false facts and figures. You didn't like it when others had views on it either. You are a tetchy ecomentallist with a chip on your shoulder.

The country is broke and cannot afford to maintain these so called forests, and if they were sold off to private hands, there would be encouragement to maintain them..Bishops Wood near Sherburn in Elmet near Leeds is local council run, and is often littered with burnt out cars and fly tipped crap...If it was privately owned, this wouldn't happen, as it would be maintained and have better security..

MODS,LOCK THIS THREAD OR DELETE IT PLEASE!!!!

[Llanigraham]

Sorry Felly Magic, but why should they lock this thread? Just because you don't like one persons slightly "unusual" views doesn't mean you should stop free speech.

I'm lucky as I live in Wales so hopefully, although the Welsh Assembly has stopped it, it may not directly affect the Hafren Forest 3 miles from my front door, I spent part of the weekend marshalling on the WyeDean Rally in the Forest of Dean. This is a forest that is threatened, and there are already murmurings from some of the "green" activists that if they could gain contol of certain patches of woodland in strategic positions they could stop motorsport taking place there, and in other forests as well. This could lead to many problems or even the complete loss of stage rallying in this country. Have you thought of the economic effect this loss could have on some rural communities? It is estimated that just the one days rallying over the weekend may have brought half a million pounds into their local economy!

I suggest that before you try to stop free speech you actually look at some of the local communities that are likely to be effected, and think. And as has already been pointed out by others, in fact selling the leases won't actually bringing any money into the system, because it will equal the grants they have already promised.

Edited 14 February, 2011 by Llanigraham

[FellyMagic]

Look, there are far more important things to worry about than a few trees. Get them all sold NOW, and the money ploughed into local council coffers where it is desperately needed. I don't care about rallying, and what very little income it actually brings into England. I care about local government services, and mine & my partners jobs. I hope you end up in our boat with the threat of redundancy over your head. You will soon change your tune! Plus I do hope the eco terrorists are shot, as that is what they need!

Oh and by the way, we will shortly have a very poor fire service cover in this area, as the budget for the local fire station has been slashed. That is a more important issue than a few trees. People's lives are now being put at risk!

[vRS Joe]

All the Forestry Commission forests are classed as access land under the 2000 CROW ACT, this will continue after being sold off. If its raises money then I can't see what all the fuss is about.

[Llanigraham]

FellyMagic,

Sorry, but you really need to read a bit more about this, and not just that promulgated by PNG. The selling of these leases is going to make no actual difference, other than on paper. The ConLibs can say they have sold them for X million, but what they won't publicise is the fact that they have already promised that they will award grants equal to the same amount to the purchasers. It will do nothing for your job in a local council, and will make NO difference to the national coffers.

I have "suffered" from being made redundant, thank you. It happened to me 8 years ago, and was totally unexpected! Personally I took it as a chance to make a move and improve the life of my wife and I, so we moved from a city out into Mid Wales, and started to live again. Now I still have to work, but due to the nature of my employment I know that my job could easily disappear, however since the bill just to automate my box is a over a million I expect it to last a few more years. Perhaps the difference is I have a positive attitude whereas you don't seem to.

You may even consider me an eco-supporter too, since we support many of their beliefs because we feel that those in the past have massively wasted and ruined much of our environment, and we should be doing as much as possible to preserve the world for our grand children, and future generations.

I'm sorry that you think you are about to loose your Fire Service budget. I'm sure like many other places you will cope. Personally we don't have a full time Fire Station within 15 miles of us, and even then it is only manned 0800 to 1800. Our town Station is manned by VOLUNTEERS, and provides a perfectly adequate service at very little cost to Powys CC. Similarly we have to rely on VOLUNTEER First Responders for most of our Ambulance Services. Our nearest Hospital is in Shrewsbury, nearly an hour away. I'm not complaining about it because this is the norm in many rural areas. Consider yourself lucky that you live in a more urban area which has more services.

EDIT: If you want to shoot me, I'll be staying just south of Ipswich in 4 weeks time, so look out for a Muscavado 4x4 Yeti with Welsh flags on it!!

Farmer11,

unfortunately the "Open Access" land under the CRoW Act only applies to walkers, and does not include use by horses, bikes or vehicles. Whilst I agree that this is supposed to be allowed if the leases are sold, there are many past examples of land owners stopping access for spurious reasons, even in Shropshire. I am sure that most will be perfectly reasonable, but you only need one rotten apple to spoil the pile!

Edited 15 February, 2011 by Llanigraham

[Paul007]

My post was merely prompted by me wondering about how much land we were talking about. I do wonder the maximum they have ever owned is, I doubt it was ever a majority.

I was suprised by how much land they have already sold off since 2001, I wonder if they bought any land in the same period?

I have yet to decide whether this is a good or a bad thing but we aren't talking about the majority of forest land in England being sold though. As the government are going to do it they are bound to **** it up and land agents (such as those who wrote the report I linked) will probably come out on top with a nice profit.

And profit they will, if planning permission is granted to the private owners who might get permission for new houses...

http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingsupply/newhomesbonus/newhomesbonusquestions/

[FellyMagic]

All I can say is good. Would mean jobs for the construction industry and people in work means more income in taxes, thus helping the economy.

[Kandy]

And profit they will, if planning permission is granted to the private owners who might get permission for new houses...

http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingsupply/newhomesbonus/newhomesbonusquestions/

Planning permission for building - that's complete fantasy - have you any idea how impossible it is to do that in 99% of cases - regardless of who owns the 'forest'?

It's hard enough to change the use of a scrubby field to make an extension to a garden!

Just another bit of misinformation to panic people into irrational objection.

[Paul007]

Planning permission for building - that's complete fantasy - have you any idea how impossible it is to do that in 99% of cases - regardless of who owns the 'forest'?

It's hard enough to change the use of a scrubby field to make an extension to a garden!

Just another bit of misinformation to panic people into irrational objection.

On the contrary, I'm a planner and know what I'm on about.

Given the right set of circumstances and compliance with policy ie PPS 7 (for those that know), it is possible. Take it you don't watch Grand Designs, then...

[FellyMagic]

You are all getting into a mindless flap over something pathetically unimportant. RIGHT NOW LISTEN (get your heads round this). The budget to maintain forests comes out of the local councils parks coffers (which also covers grass verges, roundabouts and school grounds,local council owned stately homes etc), money which they DO NOT HAVE!! Councils get their income from your & my council tax. That income has to pay for schools,Police, Fire services, waste collection, pest control, highways departments, local public transport and countless other hundred things. If the woodland was in the hands of private individuals, this means lest strain on the council coffers, as it is one less thing for them to maintain. Just look at most forests now that are run by local councils..You will find that the car parks are in a state, and the woods themselves arent exactly in tip top order either, with trails heavily overgrown, and difficult to walk through. Plus parking charges are often somewhat rather high. They certainly are in West Yorkshire...

I for one DO NOT want my council tax to go up yet again to pay for a bunch of trees. So get them all sold to help the public purse. Something you seem to ignore because you love trees too much!

I know the true reason why you don't want them selling, even though you will deny this until the cows come home, you are scared that when they are in private hands, charges will go up to use the forests. Good. It means there is a better chance that they will actually be maintained better than they are now...(and no longer subsidised by those who do not use them)

Oh and Mister Sheepy Rallyman..If the forests in Wales were in private hands, they could easily want more rallies to happen there, as it is clearly for you lot, a cash cow... You wouldn't be moaning then would you eh?

[Llanigraham]

You are all getting into a mindless flap over something pathetically unimportant. RIGHT NOW LISTEN (get your heads round this). The budget to maintain forests comes out of the local councils parks coffers (which also covers grass verges, roundabouts and school grounds,local council owned stately homes etc), money which they DO NOT HAVE!! Councils get their income from your & my council tax. That income has to pay for schools,Police, Fire services, waste collection, pest control, highways departments, local public transport and countless other hundred things. If the woodland was in the hands of private individuals, this means lest strain on the council coffers, as it is one less thing for them to maintain. Just look at most forests now that are run by local councils..You will find that the car parks are in a state, and the woods themselves arent exactly in tip top order either, with trails heavily overgrown, and difficult to walk through. Plus parking charges are often somewhat rather high. They certainly are in West Yorkshire...

As someone who says he works for a Local Authority you seem to know little about how funding is distributed between Local and Central government. The Forestry Commission is funded directly from Westminster. It receives no direct funding from the Local Authorities; check with your Council Finance Dept. The only wood/park land that a local Council will be responsible for is their local Parks, not ANY Forests.

I for one DO NOT want my council tax to go up yet again to pay for a bunch of trees. So get them all sold to help the public purse. Something you seem to ignore because you love trees too much!

I understand how important trees are to the world, and also how many people find walking or doing other things important or relaxing. Is that wrong?

I know the true reason why you don't want them selling, even though you will deny this until the cows come home, you are scared that when they are in private hands, charges will go up to use the forests. Good. It means there is a better chance that they will actually be maintained better than they are now...(and no longer subsidised by those who do not use them)

I can only go on the Forests I do know, Hafren, Nant Yr Arian, Coed Yr Brenin, Forest of Dean. These are all very well maintained. Mostly they have FREE car parks, the walking and mountain bike trails are very well cared for, and they have good facilities like cafes and toilets. Yes it is possible that if they were in private hands they might have charges impossed on them, but historically it has often been the case that standards have dropped as profit becomes important. And I'm sorry but your arguement about subsidies by those who do not use them is fatuous and childish; I don't have children now, so why should I have to pay for schools?

Oh and Mister Sheepy Rallyman..If the forests in Wales were in private hands, they could easily want more rallies to happen there, as it is clearly for you lot, a cash cow... You wouldn't be moaning then would you eh?

Thankfully the Welsh Assembly have realised the importance of the Forestry Commission so they won't be selling off any leases in Wales. You might be correct over rallying but at the moment our sport, and others are protected. If the sell off happened that can't be guarenteed. However thankfully it doesn't apply.

And why the insults? I am quite prepared to have a frank and factual discussion but your dropping to petty insults really does your arguement no good what so ever. In fact it shows that you haven't read much about this issue or done any investigation of the real facts.

EDIT.

Since your details show you live in Ipswich, have a check on who owns the Thetford Forest, as this is the nearest to you.

Edited 15 February, 2011 by Llanigraham

[FellyMagic]

Did you go to a local authority school? Did you begrudge it? Would you rather have access to education only available for those who can afford to pay £10,000 per year plus for private tuition?

Thetford you will find isn't in Suffolk by the way.

Oh and look at the number of leisure centres that are being closed across the country, or sold off, as councils cannot afford to run them.. The one near my parents was recently closed after parts of the ceiling fell into the pool(thankfully during the night, but if that had happened during the day, the consequences don't bear thinking about), and the sports hall roof leaked..It will not be re-opening,(it is to be demolished, and land sold off for re-development) and the next nearest one is 10 miles away. The pool was used by every primary school within a 5 mile radius to teach young kids to swim(provided free of charge,including transport by bus to & from). The other pool that they would have to use cannot cope with the extra demand, as it was already catering for schools in its catchment area. The local woodland (also council owned) had to be massively cleared when it was found that many of the trees were dangerously rotten, and most of the footpaths round it had become dangerously overgrown. The bill for that was well into 6 figures. (Which could have been spent on repairing the roof at the leisure centre, thus benefiting more people)

By the way Leeds CC Leisure services used to have free parking at all their stately homes, now it is a minimum of £5 for cars (£15 for coaches), to help pay for the running costs.(Gravel parts are small, and main parking on both Temple Newsham & Lotherton is grass, and if its been raining a while, you are going to get stuck) That is a local authority, and these charges were introduced about 5 years ago. Admission to the homes is also on top of the car parking, and do not ask about the cafe prices, as a mortgage is required for a cuppa & slice of cheap catering supplied cake. And to pay for pitches for a fast food mobile (ice-cream van etc) it is around £12,000 per annum per vehicle.(Events over £1000 per day)

Even parts of the privately owned Harewood House grounds in Leeds (home to the famous hillclimb) is now sub let to ITV (Yorkshire)to film Emmerdale, and that is a privately run home, with very high charges to go in(double figures per car last time I went), and they cannot afford to pay for the upkeep..

If you want them to stay in the public sector, you will have to pay to use them. No ifs, no buts. And they wont be cheap either. Money doesn't grow on trees (pun not intended), and the money for upkeep has to come from somewhere. If it ends up costing you between £5 & £10 to park, well tough, you want to use it, cough up. They have to pay staff to run the cafe's,clean the loo's, cut the grass,etc. Oh and the stupidly high cost of public liability insurance in case some idiot trips up over their own feet and then sues the council.. Just go to your local sea side resort for the day, and see how much councils charge for parking. Some resorts now even have parking charges that make NCP envious(even grotty places Like Cleethorpes, where the theme park is now lying derelict). Whitby & Scarborough 4 yrs ago, coach parking 50p, now £5-6...and that is in council owned car parks. Scarborough P&R was 50p pp(return), now around £3 each after the council subsidy was slashed & a brand new facility was built at the cost of god only knows how many million, and now well over 2 miles from the town! Even 90% of public bogs are now up to 30p to 'spend a penny'. All these are run by Leisure Services departments by the way (as well as parks/gardens/woodlands).

Also during a recession, the first things that people axe out of their expenditure are 'leisure/luxury' items, so less & less people will be going to places like that, so to try and keep the books balanced, fees and cafe prices etc have to go up. Now do you see why the idea to flog the woodland off came about??? Just think about it...

And remember, the last time Labour were in power, Thatcher had to sell off virtually everything in state ownership just to balance the books, as they left the country so deeply in debt.They have done exactly the same again, but this time there is nothing for 'Dave' to sell off to put things right.

Mull on that!!

[Llanigraham]

1/ I didn't say Thetford was in Suffolk, I said it was your NEAREST FC land. Thinking about it since, I believe that some of the woodland between Ipswich and Manningtree may be FC owned. I will check when I am over there next month.

2/ You are the one who mentioned people who use things having it subsidised by others. I used the schools to show how silly your point was. That happens with many services but doesn't bother me one bit.

3/ Nothing in your last posting has anything to do with the FC sell-off.

4/ I regularly visit tourist towns, both inland and seaside, and expect to have to pay to visit things, and yes they have gone up, but it happens. If you expect public loo's to be open don't come to Powys; all of ours are shut!

As I have said several times you really need to sort out the real facts about the sell-off of the English FC and not just some of the biased and inaccurate drivel that has been spouted in some of the Press and by some on here.

I'm now going to make a cup of tea and wait for the next train to pass my signalbox.

Good Night.

Edited 16 February, 2011 by Llanigraham

[FellyMagic]

You are so wrong on all your counts. You wont accept that local councils have to manage the forests on behalf of the FC (and not get any extra money to do so) , not some government quango, and they don't have the cash to pay for it. As I have stated, if you want to keep them in government hands, and keep them maintained in a fit state, pay to visit them, just like all leisure activities. I have to pay for my hobbies, so why shouldn't you?

I noticed you all ignored my example of Bishop Wood between Selby & Leeds too.. It belongs to the Forestry Commission and is due to be largely felled shortly and re planted with correct native trees, that will cost many hundreds of thousands of pounds to do so. Where will the money come from to do it?? The FC have even admitted that because the wrong trees are there, it has destroyed many natural habitats of local wildlife..Whoops **** up on their part methinks!(A sign of a severely incompetent management structure? Why yes!) The newly planted trees could take many decades to become established too, so seems a waste of money to me.

It used to be really beautiful to go round with the dogs, as we used to go for large family walks round there, now its not so nice....Burnt out cars often litter its car park, fly tipped crap, and sometimes even pikeys camped in the car park too!(Witnessed first hand as I used to drive past there daily on my commute, and so did my dad) Delightful place to take the family on a summers day...NOT. You will actually find that a vast number of FC sites are in a similar condition, because the cash isn't there for adequate security and upkeep.

Are you all frightened that they might be sold to the company that is slowly taking over the UK, namely Tesco?? (building 2 new stores here this year..More jobs for the area..at last) A large chunk of Bishop Wood went in the early 80s too, when they re sited the East Coast Main Line, which I am glad they moved it there as it used to run past the end of our garden when we lived in the area...Not nice having trains thunder past your house at all hours at speeds of up to 125! Did eco warriers moan then? Nope!

If you expect things for free, sadly that is a very communist view.(rather like the OAP's expecting free bus travel..Well they are in for a shock)

[Llanigraham]

I won't accept your comment about LA's paying for the FC because I know you are wrong. Powys CC is one of the largest geographically in Wales and has thousands of acres of FC woodland, but it pays NOTHING towards it. The FC is a Westminster financed quango, and that is where it gets it's money from. I also suggest that you check your information about my sport, rallying, getting it's useage for free. Currently the FC charge Motor Clubs very large mileage based fees to use their roads, as they also charge mountain bike or motorcycle clubs. The Forestry Manager for Hafren, Radnor and Myherin Forests actually admits that they make more money from various motor sport uses than they do from the timber, which he openly admits is crap!

EDIT: Perhaps this link will help you:

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/

Note what it says in the green square in the middle top!

I know nothing of the situation in Selby, so am not qualified to comment. However I will state that in many parts of Wales the conifers are being felled, because they are not a good crop and have done much environmental damage due to their acidity, and are being replaced with natural broad leaf trees.

The growth of conifers goes back over 50 years, some to the 2nd WW, and cannot be blamed on the current management.

Thankfully around home Tesco's have just got their comeupance, as they have just been refused planning permission to build a store in Machynlleth, even after going to Appeal at the Assembly. People power didn't want them, and prefered to keep local shops selling local quality products, not processed rubbish that is transported miles. I somehow suppose that may be a bit "hippy" for you, but I call it people power. Instead they are allowing the Co-op to extend their store slightly.

By your narrow attitude I must be a communist because I see nothing wrong with old people having a FREE bus pass. After all they have paid taxes all their working lives and potentially fought in a war for your freedom. Luckily I will get mine in 3 years time; just a shame we only get a couple of buses a day. Still I do get FREE prescriptions.

Edited 16 February, 2011 by Llanigraham

[FellyMagic]

Free bus passes have cost 12,500 jobs in England alone in the past year (Estimated a further 10,000 at least this year)..West Yorkshire PTE need to cut £11.5 million over the next 12 months from their budget...Which means all tendered services, and all concesions including child half fare, just to pay for some freeloading old scroat who is miss-using their bus pass to go 50 yards down the road! Work that out chap! Within 5 years they will be gone, but by then nobody rural will have a bus, and there will be no late night services...NOBODY has earnt a free ride for anything, and the reason why the NHS is up the creek is partly down to stupid Quangos in Cardiff & Scotland dishing drugs out for free,done simply to win votes,without thought to the true cost (cost to the NHS several BILLION a year)... Welsh Assembly..Sounds like a school playgroup and acts like one and isn't needed. Axe that too and that's a few million a year saved. They called it de-volution. I can tell why!

By the way, Tesco WILL get their own way eventually. They always do. They are quickly becoming the biggest retailer in the world, and can easily buy their way round local planning laws. They also partly own The Stobart group, after they almost went bust in 2007.

I HAVE HAD IT WITH ALL THE FREELOADERS AND ECO MOANERS IN THIS COUNTRY WHO EXPECT EVERYTHING FOR FREE! PAY UP AND SHUT UP NOW BEFORE YOU DESTROY THE COUNTRY!!! YOU ARE BANKRUPTING IT!! AND FOR THOSE OLD SODS WHO USE THE 'FOUGHT IN THE WAR' LINE..SO DID BOTH MY GRANDFATHERS, AND THEY DIDN'T WANT EVERYTHING FOR FREE. BOTH WERE HARD WORKING MEN, IN A DANGEROUS JOB, AND ONE WAS PARTIALLY PARYLISED IN A CAVE IN,BUT NEVER WHINGED ABOUT WANTING THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER..(BOTH MINERS IN THE NOW GONE YORKSHIRE COALFIELD). A job I wanted to do, but thanks to Labour in the 70's, and a ginger haired bald idiot who left the strike of 84-5 a millionaire, we have no coal industry left.My dad worked in the Selby coal field and was only a fitter, but was in the top income tax bracket because the wages were so high, and he only worked 35 hrs a week! And forced to retire early thanks to the closure of where he worked. Labour could have stopped it..But no...All that tax income lost...He paid almost as much tax a year as I earn now! Several of my relatives are eligible for bus passes but wont get one. Good on em!

And if you actually are deluded enough to think those in Downing Street actually control this country, well just look at what is going on with the prisoners votes...Morons in Europe have the final say. If they said the forests had to be flattened, it would happen within a matter of weeks, no matter how much people protested.

Oh and we aren't using anywhere near as many trees as we used to, thanks to things such as e-mail, and re-cycling, so many forests that would have previously been culled are still around...

[FellyMagic]

Free bus passes have cost 12,500 jobs in England alone in the past year (Estimated a further 10,000 at least this year)..West Yorkshire PTE need to cut £11.5 million over the next 12 months from their budget...Which means all tendered services, and all concesions including child half fare, just to pay for some freeloading old scroat who is miss-using their bus pass to go 50 yards down the road! Work that out chap! Within 5 years they will be gone, but by then nobody rural will have a bus, and there will be no late night services...NOBODY has earnt a free ride for anything, and the reason why the NHS is up the creek is partly down to stupid Quangos in Cardiff & Scotland dishing drugs out for free,done simply to win votes,without thought to the true cost (cost to the NHS several BILLION a year)... Welsh Assembly..Sounds like a school playgroup and acts like one and isn't needed. Axe that too and that's a few million a year saved. They called it de-volution. I can tell why!

By the way, Tesco WILL get their own way eventually. They always do. They are quickly becoming the biggest retailer in the world, and can easily buy their way round local planning laws. They also partly own The Stobart group, after they almost went bust in 2007.

I HAVE HAD IT WITH ALL THE FREELOADERS AND ECO MOANERS IN THIS COUNTRY WHO EXPECT EVERYTHING FOR FREE! PAY UP AND SHUT UP NOW BEFORE YOU DESTROY THE COUNTRY!!! YOU ARE BANKRUPTING IT!! AND FOR THOSE OLD SODS WHO USE THE 'FOUGHT IN THE WAR' LINE..SO DID BOTH MY GRANDFATHERS, AND THEY DIDN'T WANT EVERYTHING FOR FREE. BOTH WERE HARD WORKING MEN, IN A DANGEROUS JOB, AND ONE WAS PARTIALLY PARYLISED IN A CAVE IN,BUT NEVER WHINGED ABOUT WANTING THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER..(BOTH MINERS IN THE NOW GONE YORKSHIRE COALFIELD). A job I wanted to do, but thanks to Labour in the 70's, and a ginger haired bald idiot who left the strike of 84-5 a millionaire, we have no coal industry left.My dad worked in the Selby coal field and was only a fitter, but was in the top income tax bracket because the wages were so high, and he only worked 35 hrs a week! And forced to retire early thanks to the closure of where he worked. Labour could have stopped it..But no...All that tax income lost...He paid almost as much tax a year as I earn now! Several of my relatives are eligible for bus passes but wont get one. Good on em!

And if you actually are deluded enough to think those in Downing Street actually control this country, well just look at what is going on with the prisoners votes...Morons in Europe have the final say. If they said the forests had to be flattened, it would happen within a matter of weeks, no matter how much people protested.

Oh and we aren't using anywhere near as many trees as we used to, thanks to things such as e-mail, and re-cycling, so many forests that would have previously been culled are still around...

[FellyMagic]

duplicate post...deleted.

Edited 16 February, 2011 by FellyMagic

[Llanigraham]

After that bitter and twisted tirade that is so full of innaccuracies, untruths and personal vehamence I see no point in continuing this discussion.

May your God go with you.

[slider]

For the purpose of trying to calm this down and balance the argument........

FellyMagic - I wholeheatredly agree that the forestry land in question should be privatised, and contributed my case eariler in this thread BUT you are wrong wrong wrong when you say that LA's maintain the forsets out of their budgets.

It may be that some LA's have resposibilty for some woodlands that see a lot of public use, but these will not be FC owned. IF they are doing any maintenance work for FC property you can be sure they will be charging them just like any other business. There is also teh possibility that they arer contributing to some minor public access expenditure but that contribution will be miniscule compared to the FC's central budget.

Edited 17 February, 2011 by slider

[moley]

looks like Mr Cameron has done a U turn and the forest won't be sold off.

[Llanigraham]

Oh dear!

I can think of one person who isn't going to be very happy!

[slider]

My understanding is that a small percentage of forests have been withdrawn from the proposal, but correct me if I am wrong.

[ap0gee1978]

Well if it was as un-economic as the opposers say, those in Whitehall be be glad for the get-out while simultaneously planning how best to spin the news in the manner of our current government's predecessors: "What's that? You don't want triple tuition fees, means-tested Child Benefit, increased VAT or higher NICs? Look, we stopped the sell-off of the forests; you can't have EVERYTHING, you know..."

A hollow victory indeed...