Superb 2.0TDi compared to Superb2 2.0TDi

[bryanp]

Hi, I've been looking at replacing my 1.9TDi Superb with a Superb2, as I tow a caravan unfortunatly the 1.9TDi is out as they for some reason only fitted the 105 Bhp engine in the Superb2 so that leaves me with the 2.0TDi at 140 Bhp.

When I bought my Superb thanks to alot of advice and threads on this forum it seemed a no brainer to go for the 1.9 engine as so many problems were flagged up with the 2.0TDi, ie the oil pump, DPF,

Would anyone know if these problems were sorted for the Superb2 of have they been carried over as VAG never saw them as their problem before, I would in particular like to know if the DPF has been carried over as I can handle having the water pump changed when the cam belt is due for renewal if this is the case but the price of refilling the DPF is just rediculous!

Cheers.

[rotodiesel]

Unfortunately, as you are dealing with a potentially dishonest supplier, only time will tell. There's no guarantee at all that VAG will fix faults which have occurred on other clones of the same vehicle.

There must be many Superb Mk I owners out there who wish they knew what we all know now. Find the engine you are interested in and use the Internet to identify its problems. Forums, especially in the US where people are better educated and more savvy are a good input. If that engine - or one like it - is sold in the US, they will rack up much higher mileages in a shorter time than we do in Europe and problems will quickly come to light. Their fuel generally has a higher sulphur content than does EN590 - so not surprisingly, coupled with interstate running, they have seen a lot of glowplug failures. There are other consequences coupled with using this fuel which makes the US quite a good test bed for European running. For DPF problems, ask the taxi trade.

So far, the CR fuel pumps are looking a bit fragile...

rotodiesel.

[Supurbia]

Unfortunately, as you are dealing with a potentially dishonest supplier, only time will tell. There's no guarantee at all that VAG will fix faults which have occurred on other clones of the same vehicle.

There must be many Superb Mk I owners out there who wish they knew what we all know now. Find the engine you are interested in and use the Internet to identify its problems. Forums, especially in the US where people are better educated and more savvy are a good input. If that engine - or one like it - is sold in the US, they will rack up much higher mileages in a shorter time than we do in Europe and problems will quickly come to light. Their fuel generally has a higher sulphur content than does EN590 - so not surprisingly, coupled with interstate running, they have seen a lot of glowplug failures. There are other consequences coupled with using this fuel which makes the US quite a good test bed for European running. For DPF problems, ask the taxi trade.

So far, the CR fuel pumps are looking a bit fragile...

rotodiesel.

2.0 PD is no different to a Sup 1 PD, CR is better, better economy and better designed, it's down to how much you want to spend, buy a Sup 2 with a 1.9 and know the pits aren't there, buy a Sup 2 with a CR and pay the premium.

[skodanut]

Just a change of topic here...i wonder what the seat exeo 2.0 tdi chain driven engine is like

[mannyo]

2.0 PD is no different to a Sup 1 PD, CR is better, better economy and better designed, it's down to how much you want to spend, buy a Sup 2 with a 1.9 and know the pits aren't there, buy a Sup 2 with a CR and pay the premium.

Not true I am afraid, the PD2.0 in the Sup2 is a totally different design, the only common bits are the name 2.0PD 140. The Superb2 version has much more in common with the Octavia version as the engine in the Superb2 is transversly mounted. There are no oil pump problems, just as their were no oil pump problems in the Octavia. The DPF is now mounted right up close to the engine, so has no fluid to replace and I have never seen my PD140 2.0 Superb DPF light since I owned the car despite a now daily commute of 1 mile each way, and covering less than 1,500 miles since November.

[Supurbia]

Thats right Manny, but I was trying to highlight that a CR is a better choice, I know my PD140 in my Passat is the one that went into the Sup 2, sadly VW gives the same engine different codes across the creeds, the SCC? in the Sup 1 is basically a BKP VW unit, the way on the VW is the engine number to tell if you have a pump killer or not in the same named BKP engine, normally 07 in a Sat is safe, before isn't, anyway if I get another VAG car eventually it won't have a PD in it unless it's a 1.9.

[Fred Bloggs]

Just a change of topic here...i wonder what the seat exeo 2.0 tdi chain driven engine is like

Is that right? Chain drive? I thought all VAG motors were belt drive.

[skodanut]

We presently have a superb mk 2 greenline and sold the previous mk1 superb on after a major headache, and was just browsing through the seat exeo website and other information pages, and came axcross the engine spec. And it says that the all new engine is now chain driven, but i'll have to look up what bhp engine it was. Not quite sure if both the 143bhp and the 170bhp engine both had chain drive or just the one engine. Just liked the look of the new exeo, although slightly smaller than the superb, it certainly came loaded with kit as standard. All in all a pretty good write up with audi build quality.Pity the present motability deposits are way too high with skoda at the moment, but of course it can become lower if they have promotions...just have to wait and see.

[Supurbia]

Nutty, how much did you get for it, I only wanna know out of curiousity, I won't say I told you so if my suggestion before came out as an equal financial conclusion, so, c'mon fess up and oot with tha beans. :yes:

[skodanut]

Well suppy it wasnt a brilliant price and personally i wish i kept it, but it was my wife's decision to get shot of it..we got £5500 for it...and she was happy with it, and we still had a brand new car......so although it was a low price...someone else can have the inherited problem in a few yrs time

[Supurbia]

Well suppy it wasnt a brilliant price and personally i wish i kept it, but it was my wife's decision to get shot of it..we got £5500 for it...and she was happy with it, and we still had a brand new car......so although it was a low price...someone else can have the inherited problem in a few yrs time

Price is about right, that's why I said to get shot of as is at the time, still it's all in past now so onwards and lets hope the new one is better, I personally wouldn't buy from Spunkshots again though Andy, nip up to Winchester, the Manager is an old work mate of mine, and his ethic is far better, I saw him offer a bloke his money back on a brand new car one day cos the speedo had been disconnected to keep the dealer exchange miles off of it, always came round at Xmas with choc's or drink for all the department's, just a really nice fella.

[skodanut]

Yeah thanks for that tip suppy...i just hope the superb is still affordable in the deposit scheme for motability owners, as we got the greenline pretty quick from the other dealer in fareham. But like winchester skoda, they deal with nothing but skoda's, and it would be nice to have another superb, as i do like big cars for their roominess what with a family of 4 squeezing in comfortably.

Failing that, i might take a trip to seat and view the exeo range, quite like the SE TECH model which is fully loaded and the deposit over 3yrs (if still the same )is the equivalent of less than a pkt of fags per week. Would be nice to possibly get hold of the multitronic box version exeo 143bhp, but thats in a couple of years time. Never know, might see you in the seat forum's !

[Cown]

Just FYI, the MK2 Superb 1,9 TDI is fitted with a single flywheel clutch which WILL break. Specially if you use it for towing.

[oh_superb]

Just a suggestion: go for a Mk2 Superb with 1.9 tdi 105 PS engine and have it chipped to something like 130PS. I very much doubt they have changed the bottom end on the 1.9 on the lower power ratings. More likely they just took some fuel out in the top end and fitted a smaller turbo. No DPF, you get reliability, full stop. If you go for a custom remap they could even dial out EGR which will improve fuel economy even further.

[dieselV6]

stop. If you go for a custom remap they could even dial out EGR which will improve fuel economy even further.

No it will not improve fuel economy, in fact for 1.9tdi and the way most people use cars it'll make it worse. Without EGR, the engine will warm up about 2x-5x longer (and it uses more than double idle fuel when cold). Try disabling EGR in winter and heat the cabin, on 1.9 you can actually see coolant temp dropping

At full acceleration there is no EGR anyway, the EGR valve gets shut.

(Partially) cancelling out EGR only improves cleanlines and indirectly longevity of engines run at low rpm/ low fuelling for long periods of time, e.g. taxi engines. Also, if you use high sulphur/low cetane fuel (like in the US, not like in the UK), then you can have substantial deposit build-up in/around EGR ducting.

But if you give your car full acceleration to 3krpm or above every now and then, there is no benefit whatsoever from cancelling the EGR.

[oh_superb]

No it will not improve fuel economy, in fact for 1.9tdi and the way most people use cars it'll make it worse. Without EGR, the engine will warm up about 2x-5x longer (and it uses more than double idle fuel when cold). Try disabling EGR in winter and heat the cabin, on 1.9 you can actually see coolant temp dropping

At full acceleration there is no EGR anyway, the EGR valve gets shut.

(Partially) cancelling out EGR only improves cleanlines and indirectly longevity of engines run at low rpm/ low fuelling for long periods of time, e.g. taxi engines. Also, if you use high sulphur/low cetane fuel (like in the US, not like in the UK), then you can have substantial deposit build-up in/around EGR ducting.

But if you give your car full acceleration to 3krpm or above every now and then, there is no benefit whatsoever from cancelling the EGR.

No EGR when operating hot reduces the inlet manifold temperature tremendously, this in turn improves volumetric efficiency which increases the AFR. Increased AFR improves BSFC on any diesel engine.

When I disabled EGR on my Nissan Navara 2.5 tdi, my cruising mpg improved from 35mpg to 38mpg, even as high as 41mpg in the summer. so 10%+. 90mph cruising also improved from 25mpg to 28mpg as the EGR valve never shut properly from new, so putting a stainless 316 blanking plate in there did the job, even though the dealer said there was nothing wrong with it (I could see a bit of smoke in the rear view mirror at night under load).

I am not sure if the theory on warm up times being shorter with EGR is real, as after a while at idle EGR actually switches off anyway (as soon as it comes out of the New European Drive Cycle for legislative purposes).

[dieselV6]

The key point in your experience is >>>as the EGR valve never shut properly from new<<<

Basically, if you have stuffed EGR valve, it's obvious that it'll affect fuel economy. When you use most fuel (acceleration/high speed), you do not want any EGR, the valve has to be shut fully. Improving fuel economy on a car with broken EGR valve by blocking the valve is a no brainer, but has nothing to do with fully working engines.

Regarding engine warmup, once again, try driving around town (<30mph, traffic lights, junctrions, etc.)without EGR at -5deg C outside, you'll struggle to warm up the 1.9 engine to operating temp unless you drive out of town/motorway. I tried both 1.9TDI and 2.5TDI under these conditions, and OK, 2.5TDI can be warmed up, but the 1.9 - forget it.

EGR switches off at idle after ~30s-60s, i was playing with idle speed and EGR settings via VCDS last week and saw that. So if you stand at junction less than ~30s-60s, you have EGR which explains why town driving is a good way to see the warming up problem.

I can see exactly how much cold engine uses fuel every day for the last week or so, since I recoded Instrument cluster to Euro (31115 instead of 31415) and it is showing idle fuel consumption in litres/hr. The 2.5TDI starts at 3l/hr (fast idle) which quickly goes to 2.4l/hr (normal idle), and on fully warmed up engine it is 1.0-1.1l/hr (all with airco/heated seats/stereo/DRLs, without subtract ~0.4l/hr for all numbers).

Basically, the fact that cutting off EGR improves fuel economy on a particular engine means that either

a.) the fuel is very poor quality (needs high surplus of oxygen to burn completely)

b.) the particular engine has oxygen/fuel ratio management problem - like dodgy EGR valve in case of your Navara

c.) the recirculated exhaust is not cooled sufficiently - that point I can agree on, VE matters. But in a correctly functioning engine management, EGR should be switched off before this point, and I believe it is on both 1.9TDI and 2.5TDI.

Or a combination of the above.

In any case, it is possible to adjust EGR without chipping within reasonable limits via VCDS (you need to login), at least on non-PD engines.

Edited 16 March, 2011 by dieselV6