Net borrowing £10 billion in April 2011

[lol-lol]

Because not all sections of the Uk population are being taxed evenly ie Bankers bonuses of £2.5B not taxed like last year, Fuel Excise duties lowered but VAT hiked, only 2 out of the 3 wealth sectors bearing the load of paying down the Bank rescue debt.

National Statistic Office:

"The public sector current budget is calculated by subtracting current expenditure from current receipts. In April 2011, there was net borrowing (excluding financial interventions) of £10.0 billion, which compares with borrowing of £7.3 billion in April 2010."

Sales of luxury cars, luxury goods like Burberry goods up like but many non luxury companies on verge of going under it would seem like Focus DIY.

Come on decent LibDems, I suspect there are a few of you, pull out of this destructive pact.

['daiking']

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/05/26/578626/why-the-british-economy-is-in-very-deep-trouble/

[BilboBaggins]

Add to that the news item I heard on radio earlier this monring thta UK has the largest ratio of overseas aid to GDP of ANY country- Why are we borrowing so much if we are giving a lot of it away and subsidising the millionaires in places like Inda and corurpt despotic regimes in Africa?

Meanwhile our leaders have BBQs with their friends

[Clunkclick]

Welcome to Tory (And Blairite) Britain-

The so called "Conflict prevention Fund" - frequently used for the complete opposite.

Apparently, we can afford £3.7 billion of NHS expedniture on alcohol abuse - after all, you don't want to damage the financial interests of Diageo and Allied Vinters, but we can't afford £22 million of public service staff sickness expenditure.

All we need now, is the muffled sound in the background of the SAS making an explosive entrance and were teleported back to a replay of the 1980s . . . "I counted them all out and I counted them back-in", "U-turn if you want to, the lady's not for turning" . . . . "Gi-ervus a job".

Mop-haired, lovable, "Just William" Boris Johnson, he of the promise 7,000 electric car re-charging points in London, deliver (if your lucky) 1400. No subtley acting vested interest retarding progress there.

Ground hog day for Tories.

Is it just me, every time I see Eric Pickles on TV, I get this mental image of an official of the nascent Nazi party, complete with arm band and leder hausen, sending the enemies of the state off to the camps with a dismissive swish of his hand and curl of his lip (Whilst eating a huge german sausage). Bring back Spitting Image.

Mind you, such talk is lost on the "Engerland, Engerland, Engerland" generation - public consciousness endurance approaching that of goldfish.

They're doing it "All for you darling".

Nick

Edited 27 May, 2011 by Clunkclick

[jlwah]

Because not all sections of the Uk population are being taxed evenly ie Bankers bonuses of £2.5B not taxed like last year, Fuel Excise duties lowered but VAT hiked, only 2 out of the 3 wealth sectors bearing the load of paying down the Bank rescue debt.

National Statistic Office:

"The public sector current budget is calculated by subtracting current expenditure from current receipts. In April 2011, there was net borrowing (excluding financial interventions) of £10.0 billion, which compares with borrowing of £7.3 billion in April 2010."

Sales of luxury cars, luxury goods like Burberry goods up like but many non luxury companies on verge of going under it would seem like Focus DIY.

Come on decent LibDems, I suspect there are a few of you, pull out of this destructive pact.

The net borrowing figure for April was under analysts expectations. The bonus tax has been replaced by the bank levy which is spread evenly throughout the year and not in one hit in April.

The LibDems won't pull out of the coalition as they'll split and end up in electoral oblivion. Their greatest chance is to stick with the coalition and hope by May 2015 that things are back on track and then they'll try and take credit for all the good things and make out they stemmed the cuts the Tories wanted to make.

Either way the electorate won't believe them and we'll be back to good old two party politics!

[Clunkclick]

The LibDems won't pull out of the coalition as they'll split and end up in electoral oblivion.

Just wondering on this occasion, as we know that the Lib Dems are far from an authoritarian top-down organisation, whether the career aspirations of the top lib dems will truimph over the "S*d-off" attitude of the grass roots. Stranger things have happened.

Nick

[jlwah]

Apparently, we can afford £3.7 billion of NHS expedniture on alcohol abuse - after all, you don't want to damage the financial interests of Diageo and Allied Vinters, but we can't afford £22 million of public service staff sickness expenditure.

Well we do contribute something like £12b per year in alcohol duties and then there is VAT on top plus some taxable profits from the manufacturers and distributors of drink, so yes, we can afford £3.7b on alcohol related NHS expenditure.

As for public sector sickness, I think the figure is nearer £22 billion rather than £22 million. On average every public sector worker has 9 days sick leave per year which is almost twice the number in the private sector. It used to be that it was considered as extra "holiday" to make up for low public sector wages, but now they earn around 12% more than equivalent private sector employees.

[jlwah]

Just wondering on this occasion, as we know that the Lib Dems are far from an authoritarian top-down organisation, whether the career aspirations of the top lib dems will truimph over the "S*d-off" attitude of the grass roots. Stranger things have happened.

Nick

Thing is that over half of the elected LibDem MP's are in ministerial positions (something the Tory bank benches don't like) so even if the rest decide to pull out, they'll still struggle to get a vote of no confidence through.

Can't see it happening myself, but as you say, stranger things have happened.

[lfc958]

Good point about overseas aid, I still cannot understand why this money was ring fenced, then announcements that more will be given.!!!!!

Surely all this spouting of being Fair, around cuts, MUST include international aid, it is OUR taxes that are being used to fund this, so surely this must take its fair share of cut.

The Indian subcontinent is expanding as far as economy is concerned so the government should be recovering taxes from this expanding workforce, meaning that there should be less aid required & any short fall put in locally.

[gadgetman]

The whole tax system is disproportionate from how and where it's collected to where it is spent.

My reason for voting LibDems was down to a promise to overhaul all this. Them we get the coalition, so I think great this will help control the Tories.

Instead we get savage cuts, selling our forests, closing essential services like care homes and destroying our NHS and turning our health system into that of the rest of the world - only available if you pay.

Already we are seeing ongoing care, and things like cancer support being cut. Yet overseas aid carries on.

[lol-lol]

The whole tax system is disproportionate from how and where it's collected to where it is spent.

My reason for voting LibDems was down to a promise to overhaul all this. Them we get the coalition, so I think great this will help control the Tories.

Instead we get savage cuts, selling our forests, closing essential services like care homes and destroying our NHS and turning our health system into that of the rest of the world - only available if you pay.

Already we are seeing ongoing care, and things like cancer support being cut. Yet overseas aid carries on.

It is I feel too. It is very easy to avoid paying the new taxes for those who know how. VAT is largely avoidable, Excise is not.

Tories in power are less concerned about Public education and Health Service as they do not use them as it will not effect the quality of Eton or The Priory or BUPA etc. One of my parent needs a back operation and they have noticed a change in the service level and waiting times over the last 12 months.

I have been offered Private Medical by my company and even though I am a strong supporter of the NHS I am taking it as it seems we are going back to 2 year waiting lists for treatment as it was under the last Tory Government.

I am for a decent overseas budget as it can save huge suffering and lives but it needs to go via NGOs that are properly audited

[Clunkclick]

Well we do contribute something like £12b per year in alcohol duties and then there is VAT on top plus some taxable profits from the manufacturers and distributors of drink, so yes, we can afford £3.7b on alcohol related NHS expenditure.

As for public sector sickness, I think the figure is nearer £22 billion rather than £22 million. On average every public sector worker has 9 days sick leave per year which is almost twice the number in the private sector. It used to be that it was considered as extra "holiday" to make up for low public sector wages, but now they earn around 12% more than equivalent private sector employees.

[/quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-13557270

On reflection, you're right that figure is a bit low, but it's not £22 billion.

I think the journalist has muddled the figures as between the cost of avoidable and total sickness. Further the article refers to the Civil Service (Central government) only.

Average, Civil Service remuneration of full-time workers + on costs of = £25,000. Cost of 9 days per annum sickness = £68.49 per day x 9 = £616.50. But at least one quarter of employees are part-time and only 50% of the workforce take any sick leave. Total cost to the CS budget would be £300m. . The rest of the public service i.e. local government + NHS + public corporations form 17% of the working population. The CS comprises only 4% (1.16m) of the UK working population of 29 million.. Assuming sickness rates are about the same as between these two wings of the public service, then you're talking of a total sickness figure of £300m + £1275m = £1575m and avoidable sickness @20% (Optimistic) of the total figure would equal £315m about the annual running costs of one medium sized UK Hospital (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11641929). Equates to £74m for CS - so minister has set himself recovery rate equivalent to the current cuts levels i.e 30%.

As regards excise revenues, seems a bit silly at this stage of the game to keep perpetuating this particular public policy Catch 22 - surely, the way round this is for part of the output of the drinks and tobacco industry to be sequestered for other purposes i.e. ethanol for vehicle fuel (public sector vehicles as tax offset ?), then the price of retail alcohol will go up, fewer can afford to become alcoholics, tax revenues are increased (!!!) and those of vendors are mantained (Although in a different sector.

Tories could still have the important balance sheet in the economy (To them) ruled at the level of the firm whilst maintaining that the most important balance sheet to control is at the level of the economy i.e. continuing the great hypocritical legacy.

Postscript

I would have thought of more importance are the Balance of Trade figures - unrelentingly £3 billion pounds in deficit every month i.e £36 billion a year. The economy, even on best long-term average, only grows @ 2% per annum, which when applied to the GDP (£1.5T) only gives growth worth £30 billion. So nearly half a percent (One quarter)of the annual growth in UK economy (When it does grow !) is permantently leaving the country as payments for excess consumption. Suits you sir ! Oh well, keeps the City of London employed financing it all !

Edited 29 May, 2011 by Clunkclick

[Johnwg]

As for public sector sickness, I think the figure is nearer £22 billion rather than £22 million. On average every public sector worker has 9 days sick leave per year which is almost twice the number in the private sector. It used to be that it was considered as extra "holiday" to make up for low public sector wages, but now they earn around 12% more than equivalent private sector employees.

Yes everything is the fault of the public sector worker... sack every one of them and put them to work (for nothing) painting rocks white......

As someone who works in the NHS, the only reason for sick leave I see is because people put in well over 12 hours worth of extra unpaid work per week, leading to them burning themselves out and having to be signed off with stress..

As for earning 12% more, as an economics graduate, all I can say is that those who I graduated with and headed off to London earn more than double than I do... Why, because all that they wanted for a career was £££££££££'s... Me, I wanted to do something I believed in.

Are your comments above just a straight C&P from the latest Daily Mail editorial, or has your head been so far up your arse for the past 30 years you still think it's 1981?

[chr1staylor]

On average every public sector worker has 9 days sick leave per year which is almost twice the number in the private sector.

Do you have a source for that?

Edit: nvrmind, found enough stuff online.

[jlwah]

Yes everything is the fault of the public sector worker... sack every one of them and put them to work (for nothing) painting rocks white......

As someone who works in the NHS, the only reason for sick leave I see is because people put in well over 12 hours worth of extra unpaid work per week, leading to them burning themselves out and having to be signed off with stress..

As for earning 12% more, as an economics graduate, all I can say is that those who I graduated with and headed off to London earn more than double than I do... Why, because all that they wanted for a career was £££££££££'s... Me, I wanted to do something I believed in.

Are your comments above just a straight C&P from the latest Daily Mail editorial, or has your head been so far up your arse for the past 30 years you still think it's 1981?

It isn't the so much the fault of the public sector, rather the way governments manipulate the public sector for their own political ends. Labour always grow the public sector as they see it as a way of rewarding labour supporting voters, the Conservatives reduce the size of the public sector as punishment for not supporting them (plus they usually get into office when there's been an economic crisis and have no choice but to cut) and the LibDems, well they've never been in power before so no one (themselves included) really know what to do!

As for working unpaid overtime, that's a choice each individual makes, but there's been just as much in the private sector over the past few years, along with paycuts, short working hours and no pay rises, so there's little sympathy for the public sector on that score.

The 12% figure is an average, meaning some earn more and some earn less, but public sector pay under Labour rose consistently during their 13 years in office and the NHS, along with teachers, received some of the higher pay settlements (granted, the Doctors probably took the lions share with their sizeable pay increases and cuts in services offered in 2006/7). Now I don't begrudge nurses being paid a fair wage, but when the public sector are receiving 2 and 3% increases when the private sector are taking 5 and sometimes 10% paycuts, then clearly things are getting a little out of balance.

As for your Daily Mail comment, well I don't read it and as for having my head up my arse, no, it's just that having done work in both public and private sectors I'm left with the overriding impression that the public sector could learn a lot from the private sector and in so doing, reduce costs, increase efficiency and provide a better service. But with the NHS being the closest thing we have in this country to a national religion there is no chance of having a rational debate about how best to provide health care for an aging and more demanding population when the taxpayer can't really afford todays one.

[slider]

Do you have a source for that?

Edit: nvrmind, found enough stuff online.

well 8.7 days is pretty close. Near the end of this question from Cabinet Office

Written answers and statements, 27 January 2011

David Amess (Southend West, Conservative)

To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office

(1) what steps he has taken to reduce sickness (a) rates and ( absence in the public sector; and if he will make a statement;

(2) whether his Department has established pilot projects to reduce absenteeism in public sector agencies.

Hansard source (Citation: HC Deb, 27 January 2011, c451W)Email me when Francis Maude speaksMost recent appearancesNumerologyFull profile ...

Francis Maude (Minister for the Cabinet Office; Horsham, Conservative)

The individual organisations that make up the public sector have responsibility for ensuring that sickness absence is managed effectively. Cabinet Office hosts a forum for employers which span the civil service, public sector, private and voluntary sectors. This forum tackles cross cutting issues affecting the work force, and shares best practice to address work force issues such as staff sickness absence.

Across the public sector, the Department of Health is working with NHS Employers to improve support for NHS staff health and well-being and reduce sickness absence rates in the NHS. Between April and June 2010 the average sickness absence rate for the NHS in England was 3.89% falling from 4.05% for the same period in 2009.

Many NHS organisations have developed unique approaches to reducing staff absenteeism and have been running local pilots tailored to the needs of their workforce. For example, an NHS Plus initiative improving delivery of workplace and occupational health at York Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust has reduced long term sickness absence rates by 40% since it was launched in 2008.

In response to Dame Carol Black's Review of Health of the UK, a UK wide programme jointly sponsored by Department for Work and Pensions and Department of Health is running 11 pilots to address long term sickness absence across all sectors. The pilots combine a personalised service tailored to the needs of the individual with employment support to address long-term sickness absence. These will run and be evaluated until at least 2011. More information can be found by accessing the DWP website:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/health-work-and-well-being/our-work/fit-for-work-services/

The level of staff absence across the civil service as a whole is at its lowest since 1999. 41% of all staff had no sickness absence in the year up to 31 March 2010 and the average number of working days lost is currently 8.7. Information about staff sickness absence in the civil service can be viewed at:

http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/about/improving/health/sickness-absence.aspx

The Cabinet Office has also published a civil service health and wellbeing framework which is available to all Departments and can be viewed via the civil service website:

http://www.civilservice.gov.uk/about/improvinq/health/resources.aspx

[gadgetman]

Some of my colleagues over the years have this a month! 9 Days isnt that bad. Say 5 days annual flu and you're half way already.

[BossFox]

Some of my colleagues over the years have this a month! 9 Days isnt that bad. Say 5 days annual flu and you're half way already

I had a sick day once. It was three years ago.

Obviously I work in the private sector.

[slider]

I had a sick day once. It was three years ago.

Obviously I work in the private sector.

+1 and my one day was spent in a hospital bed with kidney stone. I've had the normal run of colds, flu (well what normal people call flu and is really just a bad cold), stomach ache, ear aches, Monday morning blues etc etc.

No one else here to do my work if i'm off so work just backs up. I'm paid to do a job so just get on with it. If I started having frequent Monday mornings off I'd soon know about it!, no consuling session to see that I am not being over worked and stressed by my manager - welcome to the private sector

[combatnurse999]

I had a sick day once. It was three years ago.

Obviously I work in the private sector.

I work in the public sector and haven't had a day of sick for 7 years. The only day off sick I have had during my entire working career was due to a car crash not illness/man flu or hungover from the night before!

[slider]

I work in the public sector and haven't had a day of sick for 7 years. The only day off sick I have had during my entire working career was due to a car crash not illness/man flu or hungover from the night before!

I don't think anyone saying everyone takes sickie. Just seems to be a culture with some that is easier to get away with in the public sector.