will this fit to fabia? any experience?

http://cgi.ebay.de/VW-GOLF-MK4-GTI-AUDI-A3-1-8T-SIDE-MOUNT-INTERCOOLER-KIT-/140560577139?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item20ba103273

Have you done an inner arch vent mod yet? This is more effective than a bigger SMIC as a first move because the problem with SMICs is heat soak in the arch rather than lack of size.

I think this same question came up on the Octavia 1 forum a few months ago. The general consensus was that it was not worth the money.

As above, the arch vent mod is well worth doing if you're running the smic. I'll be doing it myself now the warmer weather is arriving as you can feel the power dropping once the temps get up.

Id take a pop at that price

Standard smic is just not big enough even with tt wheel arch vent

Have you done an inner arch vent mod yet? This is more effective than a bigger SMIC as a first move because the problem with SMICs is heat soak in the arch rather than lack of size.

Sorry Ken.....but thats just wrong, increasing the relative volume of road draft air through an IC core is a complex issue and simply fitting an Audi TT or B&Q vent behind the IC core is IMO not going to improve the IC's thermol efficiency or resistance to heat soak.

Ludbe88..... beware that increasing an IC's depth/thickness in relation to its height and width is a very very poor and ineffective way of trying to increase the IC's thermol efficiency and will almost certainly provide little or no gain over standard.

HTH.

Bill.

I kind of agree with Jase. At that price it'd be rude not to.

However, the lack of empirical data might put me off. I'd like to see it has no worse pressure drop and better cooling capability than standard.

Regarding the core depth, remember it hasn't got an AC radiator nor the engine radiator behind it. Relatively, it can be deeper than a front mount. I'd be more concerned with ensuring airflow can still be guided through it. Surely the factory air-guide won't fit without mods and then there's the pikey mod. plus the foglight surround mod.

J.

Regarding the core depth, remember it hasn't got an AC radiator nor the engine radiator behind it. Relatively, it can be deeper than a front mount.

Its got nothing to do with absence of AC or engine coolant rad's....and more too do with the thermol conductivity of air.

I'll try to explain in simple terms:

But, first you need to understand that air is a very poor cooling medium (its got only 10% the thermol conductivity of water), and the thermol efficiency of an air to air intercooler is at highest when the temperature difference between the charged air inside the core and the cooling air outside the core is at its greatest.

So...when road draft (ambient air) meets the front face of the intercooler core its at this point that the temperature difference between the heated and charged air inside the IC core and the road draft cooling air about to start passing through the core is at its greatest, therefore the cooling efficiency of the road draft air at this point as it meets the IC core face is at its greatest.

However, the further through the intercooler core the road draft cooling air passes the more it becomes heated therefore reducing the temperature difference between charged/heated air inside the core and the road draft cooling air which leads to a drastic reduction in thermol efficiency of the IC core.

Once the charged/heated air has been cooled to within 35% of the now heated road draft cooling air passing through the IC core its "game over"....no more (effective) cooling of charged air inside the cooler.

There is of course so much more to it than this lol, but hopefully the above may help some appreciate why increasing core depth/thickness over industry std does not work and just ends up being a case of...the thicker IC core you use the more diminished the returns are.

Bill.

Edited 21 June, 201115 yr by vrs180

Bill, I'd be more easily convinced by your argument if:-

1) You could actually spell the word "thermal" correctly. Most of #7 is actually correct, but a fundmental mis-spelling is going to make anyone who is literate but not technically savvy question the technical accuracy of the statement.

2) It didn't so completely ignore things like the easily detectable rise in RH inner arch temperature after giving a standard car with no inner arch vent some beans.

3) You weren't busily arguing at one point that an arch vent which lets hot air out of the inner arch is pointless, and 2 paragraphs later that a thicker than standard intercooler won't work better because the heated cooling air won't absorb more heat.

4) Audi actually fit an inner arch vent to at least some of their models equipped with SMICs.

Bill, I'd be more easily convinced by your argument if:-

1) You could actually spell the word "thermal" correctly. Most of #7 is actually correct, but a fundmental mis-spelling is going to make anyone who is literate but not technically savvy question the technical accuracy of the statement.

2) It didn't so completely ignore things like the easily detectable rise in RH inner arch temperature after giving a standard car with no inner arch vent some beans.

3) You weren't busily arguing at one point that an arch vent which lets hot air out of the inner arch is pointless, and 2 paragraphs later that a thicker than standard intercooler won't work better because the heated cooling air won't absorb more heat.

4) Audi actually fit an inner arch vent to at least some of their models equipped with SMICs.

Ken

1) Sorry for my bad spelling and any offence it may have caused, I did the post while trying to do several other things :(

2,3) You really don't have a clue.

4) Different car so not relevant !!!!

Bill.

PS: I Like the bit that says "most of #7 is actually correct"....how would you know

Confused . Com

Well all i know is a couple use this over on ukmkiv's.net and have seen an improvement over stock

how do you do the inner arch mod?

how do you do the inner arch mod?

Back in my mkiv days (a few years back, so things may have changed), the procedure was one of two. either;

1) purchase a drivers side TT or S3 arch liner, cut out vent section, remove your existing liner from car, cut hole in existing liner and rivet the removed vent to the existing liner; or

2) purchase a cheap vent (from B&Q or similar) and attach this to existing liner.

see here: http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/172709/2474806.aspx

Ken

1) Sorry for my bad spelling and any offence it may have caused, I did the post while trying to do several other things :(

2,3) You really don't have a clue.

4) Different car so not relevant !!!!

Bill.

PS: I Like the bit that says "most of #7 is actually correct"....how would you know

1) Did I say I was offended?

2, 3) Why do you feel the need to descend to personal insults because someone disagrees with you? If you can't detect the extra heat in the RHF front arch cf the LHF it's because you're not looking!

4) It's a range of different cars, mostly using the 1.8T or 1.9TDi engines. If you're actually as technically competent as you're trying to make out you are, you know pefectly well that the relevant points are not the shape of the inner and outer wing, but the gap between the back of the SMIC and the arch liner, and the area of the vent hole that the hot air is finally vented from the arch interior through.

Its got nothing to do with absence of AC or engine coolant rad's....and more too do with the thermol conductivity of air.

I'll try to explain in simple terms:

But, first you need to understand that air is a very poor cooling medium (its got only 10% the thermol conductivity of water), and the thermol efficiency of an air to air intercooler is at highest when the temperature difference between the charged air inside the core and the cooling air outside the core is at its greatest.

So...when road draft (ambient air) meets the front face of the intercooler core its at this point that the temperature difference between the heated and charged air inside the IC core and the road draft cooling air about to start passing through the core is at its greatest, therefore the cooling efficiency of the road draft air at this point as it meets the IC core face is at its greatest.

However, the further through the intercooler core the road draft cooling air passes the more it becomes heated therefore reducing the temperature difference between charged/heated air inside the core and the road draft cooling air which leads to a drastic reduction in thermol efficiency of the IC core.

Once the charged/heated air has been cooled to within 35% of the now heated road draft cooling air passing through the IC core its "game over"....no more (effective) cooling of charged air inside the cooler.

There is of course so much more to it than this lol, but hopefully the above may help some appreciate why increasing core depth/thickness over industry std does not work and just ends up being a case of...the thicker IC core you use the more diminished the returns are.

Bill.

I can see the diminished returns argument but I disagree that uprating the SMIC is pointless, given the feeble size of the OEM. With supporting mods to facilitate cooling air flow, I believe it can be far better than standard. Better than a £600+ FMIC installation, possibly not but if it works well enough, you've saved £500.

In terms of the overall installation, the AC rad and the radiator and both their thickness and relationship to a front mount intercooler and its thickness can and do matter. More layers of cooling fins is a bigger obstruction, creates more turbulence and results in decreased flow. especially where the different layers are widely separated and air flow is not bound or guided from one to the other or effectively separated.

J.

Has anybody actually taken any measurements?

When I had my Fabia 1 VRS I tried all sorts to reduce charge air temperatures, including the vent mod and a water spray.

Eventually I gave up and got a Forge FMIC -the graph is still on their website to show how much better it was than any mod to the SMIC.

So vent the wheel arch by all means. It will make next to no measurable difference.

Excuse my blatant ignorance...

Would it not be possible to run a couple of cold air feeds to the area where the SMIC is to increase the airflow directed at it?

Has anybody actually taken any measurements?

When I had my Fabia 1 VRS I tried all sorts to reduce charge air temperatures, including the vent mod and a water spray.

Eventually I gave up and got a Forge FMIC -the graph is still on their website to show how much better it was than any mod to the SMIC.

So vent the wheel arch by all means. It will make next to no measurable difference.

wow makes one hell of a difference that

1) Did I say I was offended?

2, 3) Why do you feel the need to descend to personal insults because someone disagrees with you? If you can't detect the extra heat in the RHF front arch cf the LHF it's because you're not looking!

4) It's a range of different cars, mostly using the 1.8T or 1.9TDi engines. If you're actually as technically competent as you're trying to make out you are, you know pefectly well that the relevant points are not the shape of the inner and outer wing, but the gap between the back of the SMIC and the arch liner, and the area of the vent hole that the hot air is finally vented from the arch interior through.

Ken

1) No...but it maybe caused some degree of offence ??? enough for you to feel the need to correct me for my bad spelling. IMO if your going to correct every briskoda member who posts on here about spelling mistakes then you are going to have a full time job, cos some on here are much much worse than me, (or is it just some sort of childish response you have to anyone who dare to disagree with you).

2),3),4) Was not intended as an insult (sorry if it read that way), it was/is a statement of fact....the advice/opinions you have posted in this thread (although correctly spelt), proves beyond doupt that in matters relating to heat management and control issues, you really dont have a clue, FACT.

The advice I posted in this thread was honest and trueful and intended to be helpful to others on here, and maybe save people from wasting time/money on so called uprated SMIC's and TT vents etc etc that will not work. And as always, I only comment in threads when I can contribute in positive manner and give good sound help/advice, which IMO I did this time. And the advice I gave, was based on many many years automotive engineering experience and in particular re work that I have undertaken in engine heat management issues inc turbo, charge air, combustion, oil, engine and exhaust.

I can appreciate that my factual opinions and experiences may not go down to well with the "bull$hit brigade", but thats not my problem its yours.

Bill.

Meh, done some reading on TDIclub and the trend is...

Remap, minor upgrades, road only, can get away with flow mods (i.e. Pikey mods) and SMIC upgrade. I've still got some reservations about this as TDIClub suppports marques of TDI going back pre-PD. Factory outputs tended to be lower in the first place.

Big turbo and/or track work, greatly enhanced power, fit a BFO FMIC.

What's needed IMO is a nice cheap way of plumbing in a big FMIC. Forge pipework is expensive. The "difficult" part is re-siting the MAP/temp sensor. As it's normally plugged into the SMIC.

J.

Bill, I'd be more easily convinced by your argument if:-

1) You could actually spell the word "thermal" correctly. Most of #7 is actually correct, but a fundmental mis-spelling is going to make anyone who is literate but not technically savvy question the technical accuracy of the statement.

2) It didn't so completely ignore things like the easily detectable rise in RH inner arch temperature after giving a standard car with no inner arch vent some beans.

3) You weren't busily arguing at one point that an arch vent which lets hot air out of the inner arch is pointless, and 2 paragraphs later that a thicker than standard intercooler won't work better because the heated cooling air won't absorb more heat.

4) Audi actually fit an inner arch vent to at least some of their models equipped with SMICs.

my Ibiza came with both a (factory) vent in the arch liner and an FMIC, I therefore conclude the vent is nothing to do with reducing charge temps? and for the record...I love lamp

Ken

1) No...but it maybe caused some degree of offence ??? enough for you to feel the need to correct me for my bad spelling. IMO if your going to correct every briskoda member who posts on here about spelling mistakes then you are going to have a full time job, cos some on here are much much worse than me, (or is it just some sort of childish response you have to anyone who dare to disagree with you).

2),3),4) Was not intended as an insult (sorry if it read that way), it was/is a statement of fact....the advice/opinions you have posted in this thread (although correctly spelt), proves beyond doupt that in matters relating to heat management and control issues, you really dont have a clue, FACT.

The advice I posted in this thread was honest and trueful and intended to be helpful to others on here, and maybe save people from wasting time/money on so called uprated SMIC's and TT vents etc etc that will not work. And as always, I only comment in threads when I can contribute in positive manner and give good sound help/advice, which IMO I did this time. And the advice I gave, was based on many many years automotive engineering experience and in particular re work that I have undertaken in engine heat management issues inc turbo, charge air, combustion, oil, engine and exhaust.

I can appreciate that my factual opinions and experiences may not go down to well with the "bull$hit brigade", but thats not my problem its yours.

Bill.

1) I was concerned that the mis-spelling could cause some people to discount your argument. If you think that means I'm offended...

2,3,4) {cite needed} I know that an arch vent drops the outer wing temperature by enough that you can feel it after about 5 minutes of quick driving. That heat has to have gone somewhere. This obviously means that the inner wing air is cooler, and hence that the SMIC will either suffer less heat soak (environment hotter than pressurised air) or work more efficiently (pressurised air hotter than environment). If you can prove this argument wrong by reference to actual facts rather than by assertion, please do so.

Read this tread

http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/p/368144/2622822.aspx

How about fitting a charger cooler in the std location?

Charge coolers dont really work on diesels... Max core pressure is 40 psi

Running 32psi i managed to blow one up on my golf tdi

That was at 253bhp though

Charge coolers dont really work on diesels... Max core pressure is 40 psi

Running 32psi i managed to blow one up on my golf tdi

That was at 253bhp though

Diesels are mostly on boost as opposed to petrol cars. As such, chargecooler and cooling circuit, pump etc is used "all the time". Whilst I don't think it impossible to design a system that would work, it'd have to have large water pipes, a large front radiator and probably a good multi-speed pump system. At the end of the day though, chargecooler systems tend to have moving parts, hence they can wear out.

J.