Last Thursday my phone line started playing up. I think it had something to do with the wind and bad weather. I can't say for sure but I was using the broadband at the time and it felt like something had happened and it wasn't the same afterwards.

The symptoms were that the phone had a bad crackle/interference and the broadband was a little flakey, dropping out more frequently. The problems got worse toward the weekend until there was no broadband and the phone line was dead. The broadband has sprung back into life and is quite stable at the moment but the phone line completely dead. If you call the number it goes straight to the voicemail service. I have tried 2 telephone sockets in the house, a number of microfilters, just the phone or router and even to the extent of buying a new phone but it still does not work.

Line rental/service is via Orange not BT. After initially saying there was something up with the line, they now say that the line check says that the line is ok and when they dial, the phone is engaged so it must be in use. wtf. Anyway before they will send someone out to look at it, I have to agree over the phone to cover the call out charge + whatever else they deem necessary if there is a problem in the house. So, I'm trying to make sure I have done everything I possibly can to ensure I cannot fix the problem myself before inviting the technician to come round and ream me for 100 quid. What confuses me is that in the past I have always lost broadband and kept voice calls but this time is the other way round.

The phone line comes down the side of the house, through the wall and into one of those old soap bar shaped junction boxes inside the house. this box has 2 leads leaving it. One line goes back out the house along the external wall and back into the house through a hole in the window frame into socket 1. This is the socket I have been using for the modem and telephone without problem for 8 months.

The other lead goes under the carpet to socket 2 in the hallway and I haven't previously used it. Socket 3 is upstaris and is broken, literally the faceplate broken off the socket. I've never used it and its been like this since moving in. I suspect it is wired in somehow but I can't see any obvious wiring. It hasn't caused a problem up till now.

So the fault initially developed whilst using socket 1. The extension wire from the JB to socket 1 is not in great condition. Inside it is pinched and severely folded where it is clipped to the window frame and outside the cable insulation is breaking down in more than 1 location. The broadband is now poor whilst using this socket and the voice line has no service

I've swapped the modem to socket 2 which is pretty consistent and strong for broadband but still no voice service and as said above if you dial the number it goes to the message service as though the line is in use. Socket 3 not touched, never touched but mentioned for completeness.

Where to next for fault finding? Could the poor condition extension cable to socket 1 be causing some sort of short affecting the voice service?

Stuff

Your problem is, that the old style soap bar is the distribution point for your 3 sockets, meaning the wiring for all three is included in the line loop, and can't be isolated. Any problem with any socket (or wiring to it) could be causing your problem.

In an ideal world, there'd be a single wire coming from the soap bar thing, terminating in a new style NTE5e socket, with any extensions wired through that. The 'master' socket would then be the terminating point for the network, you'd gain a test socket behind the removable faceplate, and could isolate the extension(s) by removing the faceplate. Unfortunately, you don't have this setup, so you're a bit stuck, and may just have to agree to get an Openreach engineer out to sort the problem. You could also ask them to update your wiring somewhat, which currently isn't very fault-friendly, and is very broadband unfriendly.

Their claim that because your line is engaged means it must be working is rubbish. Faulty wiring could be causing a battery contact or loop condition, either of which would result in an engaged tone to callers. Their line test should have come up with either though.

Remove absolutely everything from all sockets, and test with a known working phone. If you still have no dial tone, the only thing you can really do is get the engineer out, as wih your setup, you can't isolate the various extensions, so can't take them out of the equation.

Orange are just making you aware, and getting your approval on the chance they might be billed by Openreach for a visit, if the Openreach engineer decides any fault is with your wiring. It depends whether the engineer will view the soap bar thing as the terminating point for the BT network, which is unlikely, as you wouldn't wire anything into it. As it stands, you should argue that all the woring and all the sockets are part of the network, as you can't do anything with any of them yourself. If you do get an engineer out, you could also request they sort out the wiring, or at the very least fit a new master socket, to which you can attach the extensions. That way, there's no argument in future over what constitutes part of the BT network.

Thanks, that's a very helpful reply but means I am at their mercy. I shall have to comntact my landlord and see how forthcoming he is and if I can transfer some of the cost to him.

I thought the house was worked on in about 1998 so I'm surprised it still has the old type JB but all 3 wires go through it. The terminating square sockets don't have the removable top part of the cover and the BT emblem is the old circle with a T in it so that must date them as pretty old too. This type

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/BT_%28old_T%29.png

pingtest.net will allow you to assess the quality of your line - Speed tests aren't the whole story.

To test the sound quality of your line dial 17070 which is BTs test line, press option 2 (quiet line test). As above unplug everything you can before doing this.

You should hear 'Quiet Line Test' and then silence, there should be no pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing etc. If there is noise on the line, make sure it's not your phones connection to the socket (wiggle it about a bit).

pingtest.net will allow you to assess the quality of your line - Speed tests aren't the whole story.

To test the sound quality of your line dial 17070 which is BTs test line, press option 2 (quiet line test). As above unplug everything you can before doing this.

You should hear 'Quiet Line Test' and then silence, there should be no pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing etc. If there is noise on the line, make sure it's not your phones connection to the socket (wiggle it about a bit).

There is nothing from the line now, it is dead, deceased, an ex-phone line. Just an eerie silence.

Thanks, that's a very helpful reply but means I am at their mercy. I shall have to comntact my landlord and see how forthcoming he is and if I can transfer some of the cost to him.

I thought the house was worked on in about 1998 so I'm surprised it still has the old type JB but all 3 wires go through it. The terminating square sockets don't have the removable top part of the cover and the BT emblem is the old circle with a T in it so that must date them as pretty old too. This type

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/BT_%28old_T%29.png

You'll only pay if Openreach deem the problem to be with your wiring. As you really don't have anything that can be considered "yours", because you can't remove it and it's all wired up in an old-fashioned way, you shouldn't have to pay anything.

You'll only pay if Openreach deem the problem to be with your wiring. As you really don't have anything that can be considered "yours", because you can't remove it and it's all wired up in an old-fashioned way, you shouldn't have to pay anything.

Thanks, I'll see how I get on.

Sounds like the same problem I had last year.

The problem is probably in the box outside that is fed by the pole.

My box had sprung a leak and the cables inside had disintegrated, this was then helped along by the wind and rain tugging at the cables. This resulted in a crackling phone line, poor broadband etc...

I though BT owned the apparatus outside??

If you do go ahead make sure you get them to check outside FIRST, otherwise they'll fix that and then tell you it was something inside...

One of my neighbours has a look. The line into the JB has a dial tone but it is a 2 tone effort not the usual dull monotone.

But neither extension is supporting the line for voice. He's going to try a new extension and see how that is before making the hext move.

the 2 tone dial tone is telling you that there are messages left, or you line has been diverted.

I'm unsure what BTs stance is on the old type cabling, normally they count the Socket with the removable bottom half as the NTTP, Network Test and Termination Point as the end of their responsibility. We have the soap bar type DP in our hallway which then feeds to a new style socket.

Now that a neighbour has proved there is dial tone at your DP it's pretty obvious that some internal cabling is causing the fault, basically it sounds like one of the extension runs has been walked on that much the insulation has worn away and allowed the two legs of the pair of wires to touch, shorting out the circuit, giving callers engaged tone and you no dial tone.

The NTE5 (the socket with the removable frontplate) is the de-marcation point between the Openreach network and the customers own cabling, incidently the frontplate is also part of the customers responsibility. The customer is not billed by Openreach, Openreach bill the Phone/Broadband supplier and it is up to the phone/broadband supplier if the cost is passed onto the customer.

If you don't have an NTE5 with the Piper or Openreach logo on the NTE5 then you cannot be billed for an engineer visit.

Now heres the weird bit -

The visiting engineer will always charge the phone/broadband supplier for internal cable faults because his performance targets are improved by initiating a charge. If the customer ultimately receives a bill for internal repairs then it is they that have to dispute the charge with their phone/broadband supplier.

As with other Utility suppliers any obvious damage to the cable supplying the property is also chargeable after it passes over the cutilage of your house.