No Sound in Speakers from an after market GPS HU

[hell666]

Hello,

This is Asif here, I have just joined the community. I'm sorry for posting my question here, but it is only because I do not have permissions to post them else where. I request the Moderators to push this Thread to its right place.

The question I have is like this; I own a Skoda Octavia II (2004+) which contains the "Audience MP3" HU fitted. Last week, I ordered for an after market GPS DVD HU from China, which was delivered to me yesterday. Before ordering, I made sure to ask the seller if this Unit supported my OEM Parktronics and Climatronics, to which she confirmed that it did. Before ordering this Unit, looking at the listing online, it was clear that the System had an external CANBUS Decoder connected to the main wiring harness, so I thought that it made sense that this System would indeed support my original Car System including the Parktronics/Climatronics/Steering-Wheel-Control.

I received the System yesterday, connected it to my Car and there is no sound at all in the 8-Way Speaker System that I have (yes, the Radio is receiving and so is the DVD playing). However, the Steering Wheel control works almost perfectly, the Next-Folder/Prev-Folder buttons on the sterring wheel don't work, while other media buttons on the wheel work fine. The Parktronics and Climatronics don't work at all, I only hear the beeps when the Parktronics is activated. And as for the Climatronics display, I can live without it as there is already a digital temp display on top of the control knobs.

Coming back to the Sound problem, looking at the difference between the OEM Wiring Harness and this HU's harness, I found that there is one-pin missing called the "SAFE" (as can be seen in the following pic) in this after market HU. On my original Audience System, this pin is connected to a thick Red wire with a white strip whose gauge is slightly lesser than that of the +12V supply wire. What I want to know is, what is the purpose of this pin here? Could it be shorted to ground or connected to +12V to enable Sound? Or is there something else I need to do to enable Sound while connecting after marktet HU's generally? Anybody has had this problem before?

Thank you,

Asif

Edited 13 March, 2012 by hell666

[vrsadz]

welcome to briskoda

[mannyo]

Are you sure your car does not have the upgraded sound system which is typically provided with the Audience headunit. The upgraded sound system has an external amplifier under the front seats and this cannot be driven by an aftermarket headunit. If you do have the upgraded sound system, then you are going to have to rewire from the headunit to each of the speakers to bypass the factory amp.

The safe pin is a 12V supply to the headunit, do not connect this to ground or you will blow a fuse. The purpose of this wire is simply to enable the security keycode feature of the headunit, if its disconnected then the headunit will require a code before it will function unless its installed into the same car it was removed from.

[alkip]

Hello Asif and welcome along

[hell666]

@vrsadz, @alkip

Thank you for the welcome!

@mannyo

Thank you very much for your help, I will try and see if it has an external Amp under the seat this weekend and update this thread. I'm currently a little occupied with work, so will have to wait 2 long days to try this out.

[hell666]

Was wondering if an MFD3 will be a direct replacement to my stock Audience MP3, I mean, will the MFD3 support my Sound System even if it is an upgraded sound system (with extarnal amp) as mannyo pointed out? Or do I still need to bypass the amp even with an MFD3?

[mannyo]

Yes, the MFD3 does support the factory upgraded sound system if you have it. It does need to be coded to say its installed in a car with the upgraded system, but will work perfectly once coded.

[hell666]

What is the function/parameter that needs to be coded? Some more details please?

Any idea what is the OS that MFD3 (GPS) is running on?

[hell666]

I just read somewhere the OS (if you may call it) is basically VxWorks/Java ported onto RNS510 hardware, but then it's not a 100% confirmed info.

I checked my car last night and found the Sound System to be the 12-Way and not 8-way Speakers as I had mentioned earlier. Also, I have found that this kind of System is again conncted to the CAN gateway and hence to start it up, the Music System will need to send in the right command. So I guess this Chinese HU of mine is going to go waste now. I wonder why Skoda has chosen this complicated way of connecting "everything" to the CAN! Just frustrated, nothing else, I know it will save Battery Power when the System is OFF, but then still!!!

I tried locating the amp under the seat but could not find one, just found some connectors, probably the AirBags'. It was dark too, so could not dig in too much, maybe tomorrow morning is the right time. Any tips with details on where to find them? Should I look under the Driver's or the Passenger's Seat? Is it hooked up onto the seat or is screwed down to the floor?

[mannyo]

I am not sure which seat the amp is under, however 12 speakers is the upgraded system and is controlled as you say via canbus. Canbus is used as it simplifies wiring. Think of canbus as a computer network, instead of needing lots of wires to control everything you only need a single wire.

The chinese headunit will not be able to control the amplifier at all.

I would look at a columbus now, and when coding via VCDS I believe you use the long code helper whilst connected to the navigation controller , and select sound system from the drop down and enable it.

See here.

http://www.my-gti.com/1411

[hell666]

Thanks again, mannyo, that link explains it all.

I'm sure that this Chinese HU will not be able to power this Amp on. While searching on Internet, I actually came across a post somewhere where it is claimed there is an add-on unit made by some German which actually does this job and is being sold on some site for a price of around $100. Will have to now find out if it is true.

RNS510 has always been on my mind and on the preferred list. There are some good offers on used units on eBay, however, the only hindrance is that there are no Maps available for my country - India. I wish somebody contradicts this statement of mine.

[hell666]

Latest update; I found the position of the Amp and have gotten the HU working in my car. I have totally bypassed the Amp and connected the HU directly to the Speakers. The Amp in my Car is now reduntant. With the new HU in place, the dash now looks pretty cool, the old Unit looked pale and out of date, this new one looks pretty neat and full of colours. However, had to make quiete some compromises, including the quality of sound/music, but that's ok, I need the GPS working in my car much more than the quality of sound as a lot of times I'm on country roads travelling.

Had to change the Fascia, as the old one did not support the shape of this new unit, which looks a lot like the RNS510. Got the Fascia ordered from superskoda for a price of €46 (including shipping) which was delivered to me within 7 straight days.

The Bluetooth in this unit is the best and the most powerful I have seen till now, compared to most of other Chinese Units. The Mic is built in within the system, so no external Mic connection was required (even though the package contains an optional extarnal Mic). The Voice at the other end is clear too, unlike a lot of other Chinese systems, where the voice at the receiver's end is usually distorted because of the Mic build quality and its position in the car.

The Analogue TV is just ok and not too strong. The Picture is always distorted because of weak signal strength.

The unit also contains an external USB and iPod connection Cables. Have yet to test the iPod connection as I could not find my iPod at home that day. USB is not yet tested as I didn't have patience to copy some songs onto my Pen drive just to test it.

The System even plays Video Media content stored on the DVD. I currently have put in a 8.5GB DVD containing both MP3 and Video Media files, plays like a charm. Earlier Chinese Systems I have seen usually did not play Media content on the DVD and played them only from the 2nd SD Card (The 1st being dedicated for GPS Software).

The GPS is very powerful, runs on a WinCE 6.0 with 128MB RAM and supports 3D Maps. The first time I put ON the GPS, it locked on to the satellites in under 40 Secs with good signal strength even though I was under a Tree.

BTW, the Amp is fastened on to the floor under the Passenger's Seat! Detailed info coming soon including pics and the Amp Socket pin-outs. It's a Monday today, have to get back to work now, lot of back-log pending.

[hell666]

Here are the pics as promised and sorry for the quality of pics as they are the best my Phone Camera could perform:

You can see my old Audience on the left and the new Chinese HU on the right:

The location of the Amp under the Passenger Seat:

The Out Connector from the Amp, which connects the 12-way Speaker System:

And finally the pin-out of the above Connector:

Please note that the pin-out may not be 100% accurate as I had very little time to re-verify the pin-out. I had less than than half an hour to decode the above configuration in the Connector, so I did what I could in that time and the result is this. However, the only doubt I have is with the Pins: 3RR and 3LR, the others should be 99% accurate. I have a very slight notion that the Rear Tweeters are actually connected to the Rear Main Speakers, but then not very sure.

Edited 22 March, 2012 by hell666

[mannyo]

Looks ok, how does it sound?.

I'd be careful of that air freshener above the radio, they have been known in the past to fail and leak their contents all over the headunit. Some have also been known to melt the screen and at least one columbus on here has been replaced as a result.

[hell666]

Looks ok, how does it sound?.

I'd be careful of that air freshener above the radio, they have been known in the past to fail and leak their contents all over the headunit. Some have also been known to melt the screen and at least one columbus on here has been replaced as a result.

If I were to rate the 'Audience' 8/10, then this Chinese HU would fare a 5/10. This should give you a fair idea of the sound quality in the System. For me, the main requirement was a GPS in the dash, which I got for a fairly resonable price, so the compromise with sound was worth the bargain.

The Music System in the HU seems to be a very basic one, which only directly amplies the sound from the Decoder and does nothing else like bass-boost or any such enhancements. I tried all the settings on the "Equalizer", but then, they were useless.

And thanks for the air-freshener warning, I will be careful with it. As a matter of fact, I have been using these things in all my cars from years and trust me, I have never faced any such issues till now. Still, better to be careful than sorry!

Edited 20 March, 2012 by hell666

[westfielder]

Asif,

Thanks for all the effort you have put into this thread - it's great when someone follows up their threads and gives a result/conclusion. It has certainly been very informative for me!

The HU looks great in your car.

Please could you let us know which chinese unit you bought as there's a few out there.

I too am considering a chinese unit but your tales of poor sound quality are starting to put me off

Many thanks

Nick

Edited 24 March, 2012 by westfielder

[hell666]

Asif,

Thanks for all the effort you have put into this thread - it's great when someone follows up their threads and gives a result/conclusion. It has certainly been very informative for me!

The HU looks great in your car.

Please could you let us know which chinese unit you bought as there's a few out there.

I too am considering a chinese unit but your tales of poor sound quality are starting to put me off

Many thanks

Nick

Thank you for the kind and encouraging words!

Here is a link from where I picked up the Unit: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/244631106/car_dvd_special_car_DVD_player.html

The contact person is Crystal Wang and is very friendly and helpful. You can contact her on her email id, which is: [email protected]

I paid US $270 for the Unit (TID-6512) which includes GPS, A-TV and BlueTooth along with CANBUS Decoder, shipping by UPS: $103 and PayPal processing fees: $15; Total: $388/-

You may want to opt for a Digital TV which should cost you an extra $40 and an A-TV Antenna for around $10. You can contact her for more details.

Coming to the Sound Part of it, I must confess that the last time I rated this Chinese HU a 5/10, I had been a little too unreasonably harsh and biased towards the 'Audience'. After having used this Chinese HU for over a week now and after having listened to various styles of music on it from plain voices to melody to rock, and most importantly compaing the sound with other systems in other cars, I must say I'm actually enjoying it very much now, so much so that I will actually up its rating to a confortable 7/10! But please keep in mind that this rating is purely because of the cool 12-way Speaker System that Skoda has provided in the Car as OEM. I would not suggest fixing this System on plain (4) Speakers without Woofers, in which case, the original rating holds good. I'm also contemplating on fixing an under-seat Subwoofer, which should take the sound performance to its peak, but that will have to wait as I've already spent quiete an amount on various things in the last month alone.

Overall, I'm glad I got rid of the 'Audience' and am very happy to have found this Chinese HU!

[hell666]

Updates:

1.) I have now moved the TV-Antenna a little more towards the out, right below the front AC-Vents, and the TV reception has just gotten a little better, but far from perfect, yet manageable. Now this area below the vents contains my GPS and TV Antennae and I think is the best location for all your Antennae in terms of both space and line-of-sight for the Radio Waves.

2.) I connected my iPod to the System and found it to be very easy to control. Initially, the Sound was just plain, but after setting the Mode to 'Pop' on the iPod, the music sounds great. The HU displays around 7+ songs at a time to choose from on the Screen which can be scrolled through as pages. The Interface is very basic and to the point.

3.) I have now connected the USB Cable and plugged in a 4GB Pen Drive with Songs and the System was able to play them instantly after connecting it. I'm not sure what is the upper limit of size of disk that it supports, but I think since it supported a 4GB Drive, it should be able to support at least 8GB. The USB Cable comes out from the back of the HU, which I have pulled to the front through the Cigarette ash tray bay. I had to get rid of the ash tray to make room for this functionality, but then that's ok as nobody smokes in my car anyway. With this connection, there is not a single loosely hanging wire outside or any drill/hole that I had to make in the car, which is the way I have always wanted.

4.) The Backlights on the Buttons in the HU are Green in colour, blending perfectly and very well with the original Skoda Lights inside the Car. Though the lights are slightly "Radium"ish, they give a sharp look to the dash now. I have attached a pic for reference.

[westfielder]

Oh thanks Asif,

That's much more encouraging on the sound quality and good to see the pic of the lights on...

I have an amp and subwoofer so may be OK with the std 6 speaker setup

Will read more on the specs of this model

Thanks again for the contact info

Nick

[hell666]

Update:

The HU has been a hog on the Car Battery. It drains the Car Battery completely in just 6 days. I measured the Current this HU is drawing in the Car and it turned out to be 0.150A (150mA) continous, which is way beyond the limit that can be drawn in a sleep mode.

The HU actually switches off completely when you turn it OFF and "boots" up every time it is put ON unlike the RNS510/MFD3 where it stays in "sleep" mode for some time instead of completely shutting down, which causes battery drain on incompatible CANBUS Systems. But with this Chinese HU I guess it is a poor design in the System which is making it draw so much Power from the Car, or it could also mean it is not picking up the right CANBUS Message to get into sleep mode.

So, to fix this problem, I'm now left with 2 options that I can think of (ofcourse, the Memory function will be lost and I will have to tune the radio and set the Audio settings each time I switch it ON):

1.) Connect an external ON/OFF Switch to the power supply of this Unit

2.) Use an automatic circuit breaker which would cut-off the power to the Unit once the Battery Voltage level falls below a threshold (this will save me from drilling holes in the Dash for the switch and also provide some automation by not having to rememer to turn the switch off manually every time I leave the Car). I have seen such readily available units on the Internet which retail for $50 (+Shipping), which in my opinion are just not worth.

Option (1) seems to be the most fitting and cheap, so I guess will go with it.

I actually have a slight inclination towards a 3rd option that I can think of, which is to decode the CANBUS for this Signal by using a Microprocessor (like a PIC). Maybe I can look into it if I have time. Can someone please provide me some pointers as to where can I find such detailed data on the CANBUS of a Skoda Octavia II (pre-FL)?

[hell666]

Fixed it!!!

Lucky for me that this Unit came with an external CANBUS Decoder Inteface. One of the functionalities of this Interface is to provide the "Memory Out" to the main HU (Red wire). I guess the Decoder is actualy partially incompatible with the existing CANBUS in the car, hence it is not able to decode the "sleep mode" and put the main HU into sleep mode by cutting off power on this line (Red wire) when the Car goes into sleep mode after the car is locked. I say partially because it is still able to detect Steering Wheel controls and Lights ON while ignoring the Parktronics and Climatronics signals.

I have connected an external switch to this line and it is over 36hrs the switch has been OFF now and the Battery seems to be working fine. But will keep a watch on it for some more time before coming to a conclusion. BTW, now the HU draws 170uA in sleep mode (when the "Memory" Switch is put OFF). This switch is placed in the ash tray bay next to the USB Cable placed earlier. I'm planning to now move this external switch by replacing it with one of the standard Skoda buttons like "ASR" or "Airbag OFF" (which are currently not present in the car) to one of the 2 empty slots next to the "SET", "ESP" buttons, this way I will be able to reduce external hanging wires in the car and also have an indication when the System is ON and will remember to turn it OFF before leaving the car. I will have to use some external circuits to put in place the "Toggle" functionality on the switch, but then it depends on time I have on hand.

BTW, I just discovered that the interior dome lights go off when you lock the car, so I now I'm actually planning on tapping this light to power the Memory power of the HU; a real simple and a most effective solution. I have LED's in my dome light and hence drawing a "little" more power from the same socket should still keep the power below stock 5W not overload the source.

[hell666]

A reminder please;

"Can someone please provide me some pointers as to where can I find such detailed data on the CANBUS of a Skoda Octavia II (pre-FL)?"

[hell666]

Just to keep you all updated, I have been successful in automating the "Sleep Mode" in this HU. The last time I updated this thread, I had a manual Switch connected between the "Memory Line" and the "Power", which needed to be turned off everytime I left the car so that the HU would go into sleep mode and not drain the Battery and put it on when I had to listen to music.

Last weekend, I had enough time on hand in sorting out this issue of manually switching on/off. Looking for the right relay, I removed the Dash Plate under the Steering Wheel where I found a panel of Relays, one of which was responsible for powering the Internal Lights like Ceiling Dome Light, Dash, Ash Tray, etc. I connected a Wire from this Relay to an external 12v Relay, which inturn is connected to the "Memory Line" of the HU. This has solved the problem, a very radical solution indeed.

The System now behaves and looks "complete" (keeping my fingers crossed as it is just 4 days and things seem to be working still). I now on purpose do not switch off the Unit (using the power knob on the unit) while leaving the car as it itself goes off automatically in 3-4 secs after locking the car, which kind of gives a "cheap thrill" watching it fade a few moments after locking the car and coming back to life the moment the car is unlocked.

P.S. The line driven from the car's relay does not have enough Power to drive the Relay directly, so had to use some very basic electronics like the Optocoupler 4N33, which inturn drives this external Relay.

[hell666]

Update;

Upgraded the CAN Gateway and PDC Controller to 7N0 907 530 and 1Z0 919 475 E respectively and I now get the OPS Display on my Screen. The Parktronics now works. For Climatronic, I guess I need to upgrade the Climatronic Controller now. Found one here: http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1438.l2649

[blackspaven]

Thank you for the kind and encouraging words!

Here is a link from where I picked up the Unit: http://www.alibaba.c...DVD_player.html

The contact person is Crystal Wang and is very friendly and helpful. You can contact her on her email id, which is: [email protected]

:rofl: