Diesel in oil after injector change

[silver1011]

+1

[Slickracing]

Took the car into the garage where they done the injector fit. The tech took the car for a spin and came back and said he can see blue smoke coming from it when driving. He also stated that it's emissions stunk which he believed to be excess diesel. So they measured the oil (above max) and then send diagnostics off to skoda main techs for advice.

24 hrs later I get a call from the manager of the dealers stating that diagnostics shows nothing wrong and until I return the car to 100% factory spec they now won't work on the car any further!

It's funny as I never had this problem prior to taking it into these bunch of idiots!

Looking at taking legal action now as this is beyond a joke. Consulting an independent specialist first (any of you know any SE way?) then a solicitor.

[max69vk]

Get in contact with Skoda UK & kick up big time, they will look into it further even if the garage refuses to.

When the car came out the garage (on all occasions) did they give you a printed report to say what work had been done? Usually on the bottom of this printout it will say something along the lines of 'checked, car all ok', if you have these print outs & there is now blue smoke coming out you can say that A) the car hasn't been checked properly & B ) the work they have done has damaged the vehicle which will prompt Skoda UK to investigate further.

Edited 25 May, 2012 by max69vk

[Slickracing]

On all visits I have never had a copy of any work sheet for work that has been done.

I have contacted skoda uk on 3 separate occasions and they have sided with the dealer stating that as the car has been modified from standard spec that it will have to be returned to standard before any further investigation would be done.

DPF quoted at over 1k!

[silver1011]

The reasons they are giving you for not looking at the car should have all applied before they replaced the injectors.

They were happy to work on your car then, why not now?

Skoda UK are aware of the numerous issues that are directly related to the injector change. They are simply using your 'DPF delete' as an excuse.

It may be worth paying a local diesel specialist an hours labour to put it into writing that the lumpy idle and rising oil level are not related to the DPF removal. Armed with this evidence you can say to Skoda that the issues you are experiencing started immediately after the injector change and that therefore the work carried out on your car is not to standard and you'd like it fixing.

[Slickracing]

Cheers Silver your comments have helped me compile the email below that has just been sent to the Dealer Manager.

Russ

I have sought advice from a legal practitioner regarding the current situation I find myself in, namely my vehicle and the fault that it currently has after a injector change at your garage. 

I have been asked to request that you produce copies of the following,

• All completed worksheets covering the three visits to your garage and the work that was carried out. (this includes diagnostic readings taken and sent to Skoda UK) 

• Any other documentation in relation to work carried out on the vehicle whilst in the care of Sherlodge garage. 

I am now in the process of booking the car into a diesel specialists in order to diagnose the problem. Should the result of the fault that the vehicle currently has be found to be directly linked to the injector change (be it the change itself or poor workmanship) carried out at your garage I will seek to reclaim repair costs to rectify the fault and also costs for damage potentially caused on other engine parts (I.e. premature wear on the turbo etc.)

I am also in the process of contacting the initial company that carried out the DPF removal (again specialists in their field) to assess the vehicle and produce a report stating the effects that DPF removal would potentially have on an engine. 

I am also collating a number of replies from Octavia 170 PD engine owners who have also had a number of issues directly after injector changes carried out at other Skoda dealers (both DPF fitted and removed). 

Once I have collated all of this information I shall be in touch to let you know the findings and what action will be taken. 

I would be grateful if you could produce copies of the information requested by Wednesday 30th May 2012. 

[Slickracing]

So guys if your having issues directly after the injector refit let me know what they are and if you have a DPF removal or not.

Cheers.

[Nick P]

You can add me to that then. DPF removed July 2009. Car always performed perfectly until the injector recall, directly after which the car cannot idle properly after a cold start when parked facing uphill. Car now shows large negative inlet cam torsion and the idle stabilisation values show the ecu is having to manipulate the individual injector quantities by an unusually large amount to maintain a smooth idle.

[Slickracing]

Cheers nick P.

So frustrating that we are blatantly getting shafted.

[cheezemonkhai]

Daft question, but why if you're not getting anywhere, why don't you sue the garages who did the work?

They have damaged yoru car, they have not fixed it and you will have to go to a specialist to get it fixed.

[Slickracing]

Cheezemonki

It's not as easy just rocking up and saying I'm gonna sue you.

You have to build a bit of a case first with all the evidence you can get. Hence why iv asked people with similar problems to get in touch and why I am sending into a diesel specialists for detailed analysis.

Once done you then take all of that info to a solicitor and skoda do not have much wriggle room.

[cheezemonkhai]

Cheezemonki

It's not as easy just rocking up and saying I'm gonna sue you.

You have to build a bit of a case first with all the evidence you can get. Hence why iv asked people with similar problems to get in touch and why I am sending into a diesel specialists for detailed analysis.

Once done you then take all of that info to a solicitor and skoda do not have much wriggle room.

Right so right up front, I'm not a lawyer,, this should not be taken as advice and feel free to take advice from a legal professional.

Now, I'm aware of how to sue and that you need to show a loss etc.

However it sounds pretty clear to me that you have a loss due to the following:

- Told you need a recall, but car is working fine

- Car goes in working fine

- Recall done

- Car comes out now not working and leaking derv into oil

So, you don't need a solicitor (it would IMHO actually be cheaper to go to a direct access barrister anyway if you want somebody to stand up in court and advise you), you can just file the paperwork and get it all underway for not much money (IIRC it's about £50)

Tell me how many judges are going to say that on the balance of probability, the car didn't get damaged by the garage?

It's obvious that it worked before they touched it and didn't after... therefore it's unlikely to be your fault.

I don't know why everyone over complicates it.

Unless the garage has all the paperwork telling you that there was a derv into oil leak before they started or noted the issues you're showing, then they don't have a leg to stand on.

These links might well be useful to some:

http://hmctscourtfin...rt_forms_id=338

http://www.civilmedi...justice.gov.uk/

http://www.advicegui...in_the_small_cl

Edited 29 May, 2012 by cheezemonkhai

[Slickracing]

Cheers for the links. I'll have a read through and update you once it's been into the specialists.

[Slickracing]

Just got my car back from diesel specialists.

They say that the engine is being told that there is a high ash content in the exhaust therefore that it believes that the DPF is blocked and therefore over injecting fuel to try to create a re gen.

As my DPF has been removed they are guessing that the remap done by the company that done the DPF removal has been booted out when the dealer done a software update therefore a trip to Chesterfield should sort it out! Hopefully anyways.

Question is once this has been done and the car is back to running good do I keep it and run the risk of something else going pop after the extra diesel that's been floating around the oil or get rid?

[silver1011]

I wouldn't get rid of it on a 'what if'.

I too had diesel in my oil after the injector change, I did about 4,000 miles with a rising oil level and have done another 5,000 miles since.

Granted any damage will likely show up much later in the cars life - IF any damage was done but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

As you've already spent money on the car (DPF removal & remap) I'd keep it.

[Nick P]

They say that the engine is being told that there is a high ash content in the exhaust therefore that it believes that the DPF is blocked and therefore over injecting fuel to try to create a re gen.

Re-gens are triggered primarily by pressure differential across the DPF. The ECU would never increase fueling or request secondary injection based on high levels of soot. The smoke map should cause the opposite in fact.

As my DPF has been removed they are guessing that the remap done by the company that done the DPF removal has been booted out when the dealer done a software update therefore a trip to Chesterfield should sort it out! Hopefully anyways.

So if you had it done in Chesterfield I'm assuming JBS? JBS change the label on the engine software to a string along the lines of 'CUSTOM-CODE DPF-OFF', so I think it's unlikely the dealer's VAS5052 would attempt to update it. Could be wrong though.

Edit -

Address 01: Engine Labels: None

Part No SW: CUSTOM-CODE HW: 03G 906 018 EL

Component: JBS PPD DPF G OFF

Is what mine used to say.

[Slickracing]

Cheers for your replies guys

I suppose I will see if JBS' code has been deleted by the software upgrade. When speaking on the phone they seemed to think it was possible.

Don't really want to get rid of it as its bloody awesome!

I'll update you Wednesday.

[o_ptic]

Slickracing, I understand your frustration at the situation but as the law stands there will be several steps that you need to take....and you may of already gone through these;

You've obviously had the injector recall carried out at Sherlodge Garage and now have a potential diesel in oil issue, as the law stands you will need to give the same garage the opportunity to 'put right' and issues that you believe that were caused during the work.

If you have circumnavigated this garage to seek a 2nd opinion then this is fine but you will still need to book it back in with Sherlodge to rectify the work...that will be the 1st question asked if you decided to take a legal approach.

Reading the thread it appears they have declined as you have also complained about the running/starting of the car since the refit and someone is blaming the DPF removal?

You need to address the 2 issues separately; if the injector seals are leaking then this will need rectification irrespective of the DPF etc The garage have a legal obligation to test and put right this issue providing it was directly caused by/during the injector change?

I would also be careful that you have driven the car for 5k since realizing that you had an issue of rising oil levels; at the point where you first noticed this concern the car should have gone straight back to the dealer for inspection. If you’ve done this and they sent you on their way that’s one thing. If it was a phone call asking what to do it may be a little more difficult to prove.

Did you call a breakdown service to come and view the car as soon as you noticed it?

The point in relation to your running issue is where you/a previous owner have removed the DPF and remapped the ECU.

Your car was built by Skoda to a specification, by deleting the DPF and altering the ECU or the way the vehicle thinks will leave the door wide open for the garage to throw everything back at you as it appears they are doing, I have to say, they have a point!

I can see your frustration that a software update which the dealer made has flashed over the DPF mapping change? If you still had the DPF installed and the car was faulty then you have recourse, as it stands the car is away from the spec that the injector change/software update has been developed to.

Again, I think you'll be on sticky ground and a court would undoubtedly use this against you.

I can only liken this to a jailbroken Iphone where then phone bricks or malfunctions after an Apple update…is this Apples fault?

I would also throw doubt about your issues with the wear on other components and premature failure of other items on the vehicle; these events haven’t happened yet and there is no small claims judge who could award any costs for a finger in the air approach!

Please don’t take my comments the wrong way; I’m simply stating my experience of consumer rights and the approach that is always told!

I'd be interested to see how you get on and wish you luck!

Steve

[Nick P]

How did you get on at JBS today?

[Slickracing]

There software is still on the car and it is working as it should. They stated that the only thing causing the oil to rise would be a leaky seal. They have written this diagnosis down so hopefully skoda will take some notice.

So back to the drawing board for now.

[Slickracing]

O_ptic

Since the injector refit I have covered approx 500 miles not 5K.

The car started playing up approx 3-5 days after the injector refit. It went back approx 3 weeks later for them to re do the seals and also change the oil and filter. (The oil was noted to be high and on refil they made sure it was at max)

It carried on smoking so it went back in 4 days and 100 miles later, the oil was about 5mm over the max level. So they ran a few diagnostic tests and sent them off to skoda uk for a result.

They then got back to me and said because of the DPF removal and Mapp they no longer would work on the car. However they worked on for the injector change.

Skoda uk said the dealer were within their rights to do so. And that was that really.

So i took it to a diesel specialists who said it looks like it has a high soot content. I then took it to JBS the company that did the DPF and remap who stated that the soot level is at 0 and the software is still sound and a DPF removal or mapp can not cause a rising oil level and it must be a nipped seal.

I have spoken to sherlodge and asked for all copies of worksheets to be supplied. This request was declined because "as the work was done free of charge the paperwork goes between skoda dealer and skoda uk only". Yet when it went back in on the two seperate occasions for further investigation two seperate worksheets would have been produced these should be able to copied to me surely.

So I am well and truly back to square one. Definitely thinking legal action now as before they touched it the car was fine, now it's F@*#ed.

Watchdog might also be an option? Lol.

Surely they can't be allowed to do this to people.

[o_ptic]

Apologies for the small errors in my post, it was late and 500…5k well you know how it is!!!

Ok..so are you still having oil rising issues or did the rework of the seals sort the car out?

And the problem now is just the running of the car?

[Slickracing]

The car has had the initial injector and seals fitted then apparently another set of seals the last time it went in. Oil is still rising and the car still smoking. The car becomes slightly hesitant/jumpy after a while of driving.

So don't really know where to go from here

[o_ptic]

OK, so you have several options now; you return again to the dealer and bypass the service desk and ask for a meeting with the dealer principal, you have an independent leak off test or you have a sample of the oil tested?

Personally I would start with the dealer and keep your cool and head level – remove emotion from your argument.

Then you can ask him for an understanding of what his service manager has actually done to your car and the tests that they have made on the car? The dealer may not have the equipment to actually perform the tests themselves.

If the DP backs up the service manager and isnt prepared to help then one of the other options would seem logical.

There are several companies who can test your oil such as Oil Check Laboratory Services Ltd (tel 01302-329609) who will give you a report on diesel content. There are other options such as many of the bosch service centres can measure leaks on injectors, just remember that youre best to have a bit of evidence if you get the guns out.

Once you have the fact and data then you revisit the dealer to put right free of charge and prove that the work is to the satisfactory standards or if they are not prepared to do this then youre best to go independent, maybe back to the Bosch centre.

At each stage youll need to write to the dealer explaining the situation and what you expect from him.

Unfortunately if you do keep driving the car and the engine blows or the turbo blows then its likely to be at your cost as you should be keeping the risk of that to a minimum…I know that you’re thinking how can I do that, but unfortunately that’s the system even if it means you cant drive the car.

Basically even if you do decide on a legal route it will take longer that what your car will probably last so it would be your responsibility to repair the car and claw back any costs.

Start with a log of events with the DP and take it from there!

[cheezemonkhai]

You certainly want to get hold of a copy of that paperwork, but FWIW, I'd talk to the dealer principle as discussed above and if you get nowhere with him, have a copy of a letter telling them they have 14 days to offer a suitable fix for the issue and your costs, or you will take legal action.

Talk to CAB (or whatever they call themselves now) and get confirmation of your position for free.

After that, I'd get it checked out and possibly even repaired by the injector specialist, once you have confirmation they will not fix the car in writing.

Get a cause and a report on the car from that specialist.

If needs be, you can always issue proceedings against both the dealer and JBS and then let them fight it out in court.

After all if a says b and b says a, then name them both and let a judge sort it out. It's not your fault somebody sold/gave you a poor quality service.

Obviously, I have my opinion on who caused it, because you had not problems before you took your car in for work, but that's my opinion.

Edited 7 June, 2012 by cheezemonkhai