Trip to Italy in the Octavia

[andyoctavia]

Here is the link from Drive Alive:

http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html

[Stuart_J]

Just got back from a 2200 spin around the French Mountains + a bit of Italy, Switzerland & Monaco

Holiday season already underway & the motorways in the South of France were gridlocked on Saturday, huge queues so plan around that.

Swiss police were their usual pedantic self so drive like a saint, they use a lot of unmarked cars especially near the borders as a couple of our friends found out for incredibly minor driving offences & its a zero tolerance policy. Make sure you have the motorway sticker for switzerland, its a fine without & will also generate a tug at the border if you dont, make sure its fixed to the screen, if loose thats another raid on your bank account as they assume you will use it another car or sell it on your return.

Check out the tour de france route if going shortly & avoid that as it seems to cause gridlock

Photocopy all documents including passports & keep in a seperate place (not the car) & do the same with a spare set of car keys, a ferw people I know have had bags raided etc in the South of France & a photocopy is a god send when trying to get the paperwork to leave the country

Lastly HAVE FUN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Richie647]

Another thing (apologies i've not read all posts on this topic, so it may have been already mentioned!!) when driving in Austria you need your headlights on at all times, i've been pulled over for that one....

Regards

[andyoctavia]

Just got back from a 2200 spin around the French Mountains + a bit of Italy, Switzerland & Monaco

Holiday season already underway & the motorways in the South of France were gridlocked on Saturday, huge queues so plan around that.

Swiss police were their usual pedantic self so drive like a saint, they use a lot of unmarked cars especially near the borders as a couple of our friends found out for incredibly minor driving offences & its a zero tolerance policy. Make sure you have the motorway sticker for switzerland, its a fine without & will also generate a tug at the border if you dont, make sure its fixed to the screen, if loose thats another raid on your bank account as they assume you will use it another car or sell it on your return.

Check out the tour de france route if going shortly & avoid that as it seems to cause gridlock

Photocopy all documents including passports & keep in a seperate place (not the car) & do the same with a spare set of car keys, a ferw people I know have had bags raided etc in the South of France & a photocopy is a god send when trying to get the paperwork to leave the country

Lastly HAVE FUN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like a great trip (have read your topic), despite the efforts of the "Toblerone army" to spoil things.

As a matter of interest, how much did fuel cost over in Switzerland (diesel if possible), because i am getting some extremely varied reports, from 1.21 Euros per litre, to as much as 1.70 Euros per litre. If it is expensive, then I will fill up in Colmar and refuel again in Italy (who I know have expensive fuel).

[Stuart_J]

Sounds like a great trip (have read your topic), despite the efforts of the "Toblerone army" to spoil things.

As a matter of interest, how much did fuel cost over in Switzerland (diesel if possible), because i am getting some extremely varied reports, from 1.21 Euros per litre, to as much as 1.70 Euros per litre. If it is expensive, then I will fill up in Colmar and refuel again in Italy (who I know have expensive fuel).

Cheaper in France, I saw over 1.40 in Switzerland

Edited 3 July, 2012 by Stuart_J

[andyoctavia]

Cheaper in France, I saw over 1.40 in Switzerland

Cheers Stuart, it seems to be around 1.31 in Colmar at the moment.

[FUBAR]

My only real worry, is the long drag from Bologna, along the A1 motorway to Naples, then the minor road to Sorrento, but I guess an early start will be the best idea, and then chill out on the drive.

I have driven that road more than once and toll prices add up fast on it! In all seriousness I pray that I never have to go to Naples again in my life it was the worst dump I have ever been in driving down streets front bumper pushing rubbish out of the way waist deep a disgrace and that was right in the heart of the city outside a 4* hotel ffs!

Its got more speed cameras than I have ever seen on a stretch of road (I got flashed over 100 times in 2 days). Look at the cluster of the things on A1 (E25) This is for a specific type of camera but there are many types in use. I am sure you will hit some of the liberal Italian 150kph limit motorways (93mph) enjoy that

I do not think you would ever see a proper pull by police there I have seen police in fast lane with blues n twos on and flying along and then random strays in puntos etc under taking them lol.

[andyoctavia]

Cheers Fubar, I have been to Naples (for a day trip from Rome in a VW Polo hire car), and a lot of it is run down, but we had the best pizza ever there. As for Italian motorways, we went to Garda years ago (in a BM 520i), and went to Modena for the day. There were no speed cameras on that road (unlike the notorious A1), but you had to be doing 120MPH plus to get into the fast lane, and even then you were being tailgated. Talk about a white knuckle ride!

[FUBAR]

Cheers Fubar, I have been to Naples (for a day trip from Rome in a VW Polo hire car), and a lot of it is run down, but we had the best pizza ever there. As for Italian motorways, we went to Garda years ago (in a BM 520i), and went to Modena for the day. There were no speed cameras on that road (unlike the notorious A1), but you had to be doing 120MPH plus to get into the fast lane, and even then you were being tailgated. Talk about a white knuckle ride!

It is such a totally different driving culture its unreal people tail gating police cars flashing them to move over and police obeying!!! That just shocked me! A1 is tolled too it would be really cool if you used a sat nav and selected avoid motorways.... but then again you know the type of roads you may find lol. Most speed cameras you will not notice if not aware of how they look there are about 4 different fixed types some in overhead signs and bridges that you wont see full stop from driving. Lots are on shoulder side and are similar to the ones you would see in France.

portable ones (no joke)

Fixed

another fixed

Bridge type ones

[Stuart_J]

Driving in Italy is interesting !!

We do the odd "enthusiasts" jollys through Europe with some of the ex Cannonballers so we arent slouches.

Ive been beaten by a Smart car ( I had 350 bhp & 4WD) simply because he created a third lane down the middle at 50+ in the rush hour going down hill through a series of bends. Ive also been overtaken on double white lines on a long bend in a tunnel by a flat bed transit. In both instances the driver would have had nowhere to go had he run out of road/luck. As for tailgating its a national pastime. Ive tended to find the drivers of true performance cars were good drivers & often up for a bit of fun, its the oiks in the Euroboxes who are a complete danger, just let them race on & they will probaly get to heaven first

As for the road signs they are somewhat lacking so yopu need to keep your wits about you

Edited 4 July, 2012 by Stuart_J

[andyoctavia]

Cheers guys, I think I will be taking it nice and steady on this run, trying to save fuel and stay calm. What are the headlight requirements for Switzerland and Italy (not deflectors), do you have to have them on all the time, or just when it is raining?

[nickguzzi]

Gone completly speed camera barmy them Italians! Not just on the autostrada and superstrada, but little back roads too.

Has anyone ever heard of anyone being "done" here for speeding "there"? Been flashed, but never (yet) contacted. If the driver who has been tailgating you suddenly drops back into the inside lane, likelihood is....

http://about-france.com/travel.htm#tolls. Calais to Nice €100+. Bison Fute mark routes like our HR "Bis Lyon" for example is an alternative route avoiding major bottlenecks, which almost always get you into a more rural "nice" France. They have a web presence "http://www.bison-fute.equipement.gouv.fr/diri/Accueil.do?langue=en" like our Highways Agency site. In the old days, they had little huts by the side of trunk routes, and lured you in with free maps and drinks and a happy smiliing face (usually) Progress eh?

Consider Saturdays. From now till end of August, they will be peak density. You can feel smug when you're already at your destiination, sipping a pastis while awaiting your meal, but some poor booger (and their family) will still be waiting in the 30 km tailbacks at the peage or places like Lyon.

[Stuart_J]

Gone completly speed camera barmy them Italians! Not just on the autostrada and superstrada, but little back roads too.

Has anyone ever heard of anyone being "done" here for speeding "there"? Been flashed, but never (yet) contacted. If the driver who has been tailgating you suddenly drops back into the inside lane, likelihood is....

http://about-france....#tolls.??Calais to Nice €100+. Bison Fute mark routes like our HR "Bis Lyon" for example is an alternative route avoiding major bottlenecks, which almost always get you into a more rural "nice" France. They have a web presence "http://www.bison-fut...angue=en"??like our Highways Agency site. In the old days, they had little huts by the side of trunk routes, and lured you in with free maps and drinks and a happy smiliing face (usually) Progress eh?

Consider Saturdays. From now till end of August, they will be peak density. You can feel smug when you're already at your destiination, sipping a pastis while awaiting your meal, but some poor booger (and their family) will still be waiting in the 30 km tailbacks at the peage or places like Lyon.

We were caught at Lyon last saturday, came off the main roads & drove through the town, much easier

[andyoctavia]

Gone completly speed camera barmy them Italians! Not just on the autostrada and superstrada, but little back roads too.

Has anyone ever heard of anyone being "done" here for speeding "there"? Been flashed, but never (yet) contacted. If the driver who has been tailgating you suddenly drops back into the inside lane, likelihood is....

http://about-france....#tolls.??Calais to Nice €100+. Bison Fute mark routes like our HR "Bis Lyon" for example is an alternative route avoiding major bottlenecks, which almost always get you into a more rural "nice" France. They have a web presence "http://www.bison-fut...angue=en"??like our Highways Agency site. In the old days, they had little huts by the side of trunk routes, and lured you in with free maps and drinks and a happy smiliing face (usually) Progress eh?

Consider Saturdays. From now till end of August, they will be peak density. You can feel smug when you're already at your destiination, sipping a pastis while awaiting your meal, but some poor booger (and their family) will still be waiting in the 30 km tailbacks at the peage or places like Lyon.

Cheers Nick, the only Saturday which we will be driving in France is on the way back to Calais from Beaujolais. The route planner says to use the motorway, which takes in the Paris periphique and then goes to Calais via Boulogne (not Rheims). Would I be better off going the longer way via Dijon and Rheims?

[peterhr]

There is Carforre (spelling) about 2 miles from the Calais ferry with a pay-at-pump fuel station (select your fuel type, Validate she selection, enter the PIN for the card then fill)

For the french autoroute you can get a smart tag to do the tolls from aprr/area for €13 - shortend url -> http://goo.gl/qlZyS - you save about 25% on the tolls fee is €3 for each month in which the device is used on the autoroute anywhere in France (direct debit to plastic - I think they bill every 6 months). Took under 2 weeks to arrive (note if applying they want your french post code - the field is numeric - just put in a 5 digit number, remember what you used - you need it to access the website later)

I have a Garmin POI file for all the main service areas (aire) on france autoroute (main ones have a shop / cafe probably decent loos, small ones have a picnic table) - PM me your email if you'd like a copy. (stop every 2 hours for a leg stretch - work out 2 hour journey stages maybe)

Speed cameras - I use http://scdb.info for POI files - €9.95 / year (note in france you are not allowed speed camera warnings on the sat nav, but you are allowed 'danger area warnings' that can include cameras ... but not speed related 'you are going too fast' warnings. If loading speed camera info load the UK ones (mph) separate from french (distance) from rest of Europe (kph).

I would go via Reims, adds 15 mins but saves hitting Paris in the rush hour (google maps journey planner will help) - remember google maps has a traffic overlay - so you can look see if there are areas prone to snarl a couple of days before hitting the road (I think the data for the traffic overlay is collected from andriod phones using the route planning app ... probably expensive unless you're a native to the country or have data roaming on)

Hope that helps

Edited 7 July, 2012 by peterhr

[Stuart_J]

If you go via Reims try & stop at the old race track, really worth it, the old straight is the main road but all the Grandstands & pits remain. If youy go behind the pits you can find the old underpass & walk under the road

http://googlesightseeing.com/2011/04/le-circuit-de-reims-gueux/

Fastest I know anyones clocked down there was 170 mph, The local firebrigade were doing a practice exercise in the Grandstand & the top man asked how fast the car would go so he got a passenger ride

[andyoctavia]

I would go via Reims, adds 15 mins but saves hitting Paris in the rush hour (google maps journey planner will help) - remember google maps has a traffic overlay - so you can look see if there are areas prone to snarl a couple of days before hitting the road (I think the data for the traffic overlay is collected from andriod phones using the route planning app ... probably expensive unless you're a native to the country or have data roaming on)

Hope that helps

Cheers Peter, I much prefer the Reims route.

[andyoctavia]

If you go via Reims try & stop at the old race track, really worth it, the old straight is the main road but all the Grandstands & pits remain. If youy go behind the pits you can find the old underpass & walk under the road

http://googlesightse...de-reims-gueux/

Fastest I know anyones clocked down there was 170 mph, The local firebrigade were doing a practice exercise in the Grandstand & the top man asked how fast the car would go so he got a passenger ride

That may well be for another trip Stuart - a visit to the Champagne region for tastings and food maybe.

[andyoctavia]

Well, I got back last night, having completed the trip, and did 2900 miles in all, at an average of 53MPG. There were good parts, great parts nad the downright scary and hilarious parts (other motorists - particularly in Italy).

We had a stopover in Alsace (Colmar), and I would really love to explore this region, the mountains, castles and wine and food.

Our trip from Colmar to Bologna was a nightmare, due to huge tailbacks for the Gottard tunnel, so I peeled off and went over the Gottard Pass (despite my acute vertigo), and what a great drive that was! Stunning scenery and sunshine, with a break at the top for water, lunch and piccies. Then we hit the customs point at Milan, with thousands of cars trying get through just TWO kiosks!!!

Lovely hotel (Cosmopolian) in Bologna (Booking.com £44 per night for a great room for two), and then the long, hot (40 degrees, no aircon) drive to Sorrento. I wouldn't recommend Sorrento or Capri to anyone, as it is a complete rip off, mixed with surly service and the rare beautiful view.

On the return leg, we stayed outside Siena, so were able to visit Firenze (Florence) and the surrounding area - Chianti - great!

Our last four nights were spent in the Beaujolais region, and the hotel had no air conditioning, and there was a heatwave. The scenery is stunning though and the food and wine excellent.

All in all, a great trip, albeit a bit tiring, and I probably would not drive to Italy again due to the driving (lack of) ability of the locals. We encountered one young lady veering towards us on our side of the road, and then beeping at us as she hurriedly got back on track! I had to pull out of numerous overtaking attempts, because of Italian drivers on their mobiles, wandering in to my lane just as I was about to pass them at 80MPH.

We saw a fine display of driving in a French supermarket car park, where two lady drivers reversed into one another, sorted themselves out, and then did it again!!!! One of them had every window except the front screen blanked out with towels to keep the heat out!!.

I was planning on a day of relaxation today, but the OH wants the car washed - unbelievable!

[Stuart_J]

Well, I got back last night, having completed the trip, and did 2900 miles in all, at an average of 53MPG. There were good parts, great parts nad the downright scary and hilarious parts (other motorists - particularly in Italy).

We had a stopover in Alsace (Colmar), and I would really love to explore this region, the mountains, castles and wine and food.

Our trip from Colmar to Bologna was a nightmare, due to huge tailbacks for the Gottard tunnel, so I peeled off and went over the Gottard Pass (despite my acute vertigo), and what a great drive that was! Stunning scenery and sunshine, with a break at the top for water, lunch and piccies. Then we hit the customs point at Milan, with thousands of cars trying get through just TWO kiosks!!!

Lovely hotel (Cosmopolian) in Bologna (Booking.com £44 per night for a great room for two), and then the long, hot (40 degrees, no aircon) drive to Sorrento. I wouldn't recommend Sorrento or Capri to anyone, as it is a complete rip off, mixed with surly service and the rare beautiful view.

On the return leg, we stayed outside Siena, so were able to visit Firenze (Florence) and the surrounding area - Chianti - great!

Our last four nights were spent in the Beaujolais region, and the hotel had no air conditioning, and there was a heatwave. The scenery is stunning though and the food and wine excellent.

All in all, a great trip, albeit a bit tiring, and I probably would not drive to Italy again due to the driving (lack of) ability of the locals. We encountered one young lady veering towards us on our side of the road, and then beeping at us as she hurriedly got back on track! I had to pull out of numerous overtaking attempts, because of Italian drivers on their mobiles, wandering in to my lane just as I was about to pass them at 80MPH.

We saw a fine display of driving in a French supermarket car park, where two lady drivers reversed into one another, sorted themselves out, and then did it again!!!! One of them had every window except the front screen blanked out with towels to keep the heat out!!.

I was planning on a day of relaxation today, but the OH wants the car washed - unbelievable!

Glad you had generally a good trip. Gottard Pass is a good drive & agree Florence is stunning. Sorento, Capri, all the known tourist places are IMO a rip, St Tropez, Cannes etc, they all fall into the same trap & I generally avoid the lot. Monaco is the only well known I enjoy, not cheap but spotless & once you geta feel for the place nice for a day or 2.

Agreed on the driving standards, can be fun but some downright scary. If you ever fancy long trips again try & avoid the continental holiday season & the roads are a lot less busy, September & October are always good

So where next ????

[andyoctavia]

Glad you had generally a good trip. Gottard Pass is a good drive & agree Florence is stunning. Sorento, Capri, all the known tourist places are IMO a rip, St Tropez, Cannes etc, they all fall into the same trap & I generally avoid the lot. Monaco is the only well known I enjoy, not cheap but spotless & once you geta feel for the place nice for a day or 2.

Agreed on the driving standards, can be fun but some downright scary. If you ever fancy long trips again try & avoid the continental holiday season & the roads are a lot less busy, September & October are always good

So where next ????

No more long trips planned for a while Stuart, but I wouldn't mind visiting the Alsace next year as it was really lovely there.

Your list of places to avoid seems similar to mine - Sorrento, Capri, St Tropez, Cannes. I would add Naples as well, because it is just too busy and really dirty.

[nickguzzi]

That sounds like a great experience!

If you are doing Alsace, remember the Slumf Bugatti museum AKA French National Motor Museum and the French National Railway Museum. Both in Mulhouse. Both very good. My technophobe SO liked both too.

If you want to do some vinyards, a bit of research beforehand helps. Most are really helpful and delighted to give you a tasting, but some make it clear they expect you to buy. Of course if you take French friends they say how rubbish it is and stomp out.

If you can find a producer market then they usually have a few local vignerons in attendance, and the pressure to buy is off. But you'll likely find some you want anyway.

I seem to find Alsace either very hot or raining. There is probably no statistical basis for this, just our luck.

[Stuart_J]

That sounds like a great experience!

If you are doing Alsace, remember the Slumf Bugatti museum AKA French National Motor Museum and the French National Railway Museum. Both in Mulhouse. Both very good. My technophobe SO liked both too.

If you want to do some vinyards, a bit of research beforehand helps. Most are really helpful and delighted to give you a tasting, but some make it clear they expect you to buy. Of course if you take French friends they say how rubbish it is and stomp out.

If you can find a producer market then they usually have a few local vignerons in attendance, and the pressure to buy is off. But you'll likely find some you want anyway.

I seem to find Alsace either very hot or raining. There is probably no statistical basis for this, just our luck.

We did the schlumpf museum this year, agreed well worth a visit, loads to see apart from Bugattis, you need to allow a few hours. They even did a show with a few being driven, quite interesting as was the Girl posing with the cars http://www.citedelau...ile.com/en/home

This probably gives a better idea http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mus%C3%A9e+schlumpf&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=L3EWUM3jBeev0QW8o4DgBw&ved=0CH0QsAQ&biw=1680&bih=952

Edited 30 July, 2012 by Stuart_J

[Rab-k]

2500 miles later and very impressed with how the car performed - no issues whatsoever. Averaged 47mpg for the whole trip, which is pretty good for a loaded up 4x4 with roof box sitting at between 70 and 80 on the m'ways.

No probs on the drive other than the sections of autobahn in Germany which comprise hard-shoulder plus lane 1 & 2 only. Cloggy with caravan (of which there were hundreds - Clarkson would have burst a blood vessel) in lane 1 doing 60 and Fritz in his BMW/Merc in lane 2 doing 160+. Can be quite tricky moving from lane 1 into lane 2 to overtake Cloggy. I think I spent more time on those sections looking in the mirrors at what was coming up behind me than I did watching what was in front. Sections with a lane 3 or even 4 were great, but the speed difference between lane 1 and 2 on the sections only having two lanes made for some long delays; a sea of brakelights appearing when someone mistimes their overtaking manoeuvre resulting in a stop-start effect on the flow of traffic.

Roads elsewhere were fine. Vignettes required in Austria and Slovenia for m'ways, and we obtained an Umweltplakette for stopping off in Germany. The predictable fun was had dodging suicidal scooter drivers in Trieste; life expectancy must be pretty short for these guys.

Austrian traffic cops pulled us on the E55 near Villach at about midnight, coming back from Trieste. Entire autobahn was filtered off into a car park in a motorway maintenance type area, (not services), where I-D (driving licence and passports) had to be produced. Plod duly checked our vignette then disappeared into his portacabin for 5 mins before returning our documents and sending us on our merry way. This was done to everyone on that stretch of road, but with about 50 cops swarming all over the place nobody was held up for long. Most odd...

(Might have shot through a couple of road tolls in Austria and Slovenia without paying, but I assumed the vignette was all that was required. Nothing through the post, yet...)

Great trip in a great car. Below: Adriatic sunset in Trieste.