Non-OEM towbars

[ex750]

Can anyone recommend an individual manufacturer for a towbar on my 1.8 Elegance estate? Having experienced main dealer prices (not just Skoda) in the past I didn't even bother asking them for a price and am instead looking at an independent to supply and fit one. Only need single point 'lectrics.

Oh, and while I'm here, how can I easily find out whether my car has got the 'pre-wiring' fitted?

[lowedb]

I've been told, and I hope it's true, that the proper Skoda one is Westfalia. So if you buy a Westfalia detacheable it's the same as a Skoda one anyway. Witter and Bosal also do them, plus I'm sure others.

I've bought mine through PF Jones, and I collect Friday.

The only way to be sure about the prewiring is to pull off the left hand boot / loadspace trim and see if the twelve way connector is there. I can't do a photo as I Haven't ventured in there yet.

Another good indication should be whether the fuses are fitted. There are three extra fuses just for the prewiring, fuses 43/44/45 in the fusebox by the steering wheel. These would only be fitted (I think) if you have the kit. On the other hand if they are not fitted you can be fairly confident the prewiring isn't there.

[iancjc]

I've had a witter detachable fitted - so far towed 200 miles with a caravan - no problems.

Was bloody expensive though - from an independent fitting co -who I've used in the past and they know what they are doing - had it all fitted with 13 pin electrics (swing down and away) and dedicated wiring plus recoding for just under £700.

The wiring kit added a couple of hundred to the price - but worth it I thought for a car with so much connected.

Caravan shows up on columbus screen when attached and fogs, and parking sensors don't sound.

Interestingly the swan neck bar when fitted doesn't sound the parking sensors - if I had known that I might have gone for a fixed bar as I like them a bumper guard in car parks.

Make sure whoever fits it gives you the bumperr beam they remove to fit the bar

Edited 1 August, 2012 by iancjc

[GaSelle]

Why bother with non-OEM towbars, when the original one is here: http://www.skodateile.cz/index.php?pg=product∏=359&menu=%C5%A0koda%7CSuperb%20II at a cost of £236,25 including the original electronics?

[Back9]

Hello

see my post earlier in the year

May Help

Baz

http://www.briskoda....ge__hl__+witter

[ex750]

Thanks to all for replies. I've now collected the car and, just for the entertainment value, asked the dealer for a quote for a towbar. Six hundred quid, came the breezy reply. Ummm, okay I'll take it with single electrics then, and a fixed bar rather than removable - that should help the price a bit.

That's what I've quoted you for, sir... Yikes! God knows what the price of twin sockets and removable would be, then!!

What I did find out though was that my car doesn't have pre-wiring, so its a 'from scratch' job. I was initially keen on GaSelle's OE bar from Czechoslovakia Skoda, but then thought I'd have the potential of difficulty if my local installer buggered it up and blamed the bar, while the manufacturer blamed the fitter, etc etc. Would love a 'proper' install (with all the gubbins like fog light disable, unhitch alarm, etc) at that sort of price though!

[Vagtastic]

Yes, Westfalia make the OEM detachable bar so that's a good one to go for. Most OEM's don't bother engineering their own bars any more, they just get one of the towbar specialists to do it for them. Westfalia do quite a few of the VAG OEM bars.

I've previously fitted a Witter detachable on my old Passat and they are also excellent and use exactly the same mounting points.

[phil_taylor_towbars]

Westfalia is definately the best make to go for. As already said Skoda use it as original equipment and if you have a vehicle specific kit fitted you're effectively getting what the dealer would fit at half the price. Expect to pay in the region of £500-600 from an independent fitter. You probably won't have towing prep unless you ordered the car with it

[Guest]

Just had a Witter Flange detachable fitted with 13 pin socket and Superb specific wiring and computer updates, all for £660. Just go onto the Witter website and you can book it all online with a local fitter. It would also be worth talking with the fitter to ensure that the computer updates are included in the price. Luckily my fitter is used by my Skoda dealer and so is experienced with Skoda vehicles.

Dealer price was £850 for the OEM. I went for the Flange type so that I have the option of towing with a cycle carrier fitted at the same time, this is not possible with a swan neck. Also the 13 pin socket is more expensive but I prefer that as I have a continental van and it's the Euro spec standard now anyway since 2009.

HTH

Edited 3 August, 2012 by Guest

[GaSelle]

Thanks to all for replies. I've now collected the car and, just for the entertainment value, asked the dealer for a quote for a towbar. Six hundred quid, came the breezy reply. Ummm, okay I'll take it with single electrics then, and a fixed bar rather than removable - that should help the price a bit.

That's what I've quoted you for, sir... Yikes! God knows what the price of twin sockets and removable would be, then!!

What I did find out though was that my car doesn't have pre-wiring, so its a 'from scratch' job. I was initially keen on GaSelle's OE bar from Czechoslovakia Skoda, but then thought I'd have the potential of difficulty if my local installer buggered it up and blamed the bar, while the manufacturer blamed the fitter, etc etc. Would love a 'proper' install (with all the gubbins like fog light disable, unhitch alarm, etc) at that sort of price though!

Well, not much can go wron when using original parts. You will need to run two cables from the box in the back to the cars BCM in the front, and a few wires to the fuse panel, also located in the front. And really, that´s it! So paying for a "towbar prep" and the other things you are mentioning is useless in my opinion. The towbar itself is fitted with 4/6 bolts, and that´s it. It´s not that big a deal to install, and I would´nt pay 6-800£ for a installation

[dieselV6]

Avoid Westfalia SIARR France made towbars. Here are pictures of what I got for a Roomster

http://www.briskoda....d/#entry2764487

Westfalia took over SIARR a few years back, and it seems quality control is a struggle.

I had consistently good experience with PCT towbars, Mk1 Superb and Roomster, both extremely well made and protected against corossion.

I also used a detachable Brink earlier, and had fitment/hole alignment problem on the chassis mounts.

If you are not fitting the towbar yourself, demand to see the towbar beam before fitting, the one I got was so poor you could see it's skewed immediately.

Edit: incidentally, the faulty Westfalia/SIARR one I got was from PFJones recommended earlier in this thread. I got full refund so no problem other than time wasted. Both PCT towbars I got from Hedleys Alarm and Towing Centre, note I DIY fitted them so no idea about fitting quality/prices etc..

Edited 3 August, 2012 by dieselV6

[smf1007]

Why are a lot of people hung up on this OEM thing. It's rubbish. The manufacture of towbars has been governed by EC type approval regs for about 15 years now so any towbar made by Witter or Westfalia or whoever has to be made to an equivalent quality and specification as the original equipment. It might not look exactly the same. Detailing on the detachable swan neck for the locking mechanism might be different but it will perform exactly the same. The testing regime will make sure of that.

I wouldn't bother with single electrics. If you want all the bells and whistles to work properly you'll need a dedicated electrics kit anyway and that will probably only come with a 13 pin connector. You just need an adapter then for 7 pin N/S electrics.

I had a detachable Westfalia fitted and fully coded by Derby Towbars for £450.

[smf1007]

Why are a lot of people hung up on this OEM thing. It's rubbish. The manufacture of towbars has been governed by EC type approval regs for about 15 years now so any towbar made by Witter or Westfalia or whoever has to be made to an equivalent quality and specification as the original equipment. It might not look exactly the same. Detailing on the detachable swan neck for the locking mechanism might be different but it will perform exactly the same. The testing regime will make sure of that.

I wouldn't bother with single electrics. If you want all the bells and whistles to work properly you'll need a dedicated electrics kit anyway and that will probably only come with a 13 pin connector. You just need an adapter then for 7 pin N/S electrics.

I had a detachable Westfalia fitted and fully coded by Derby Towbars for £450.

[ex750]

I honestly hadn't realised it was this flippin' hard! My caravan doesn't use the second socket (grey one) so I thought a single setup would do fine. But now I'm looking on websites, they offer electric kits of 7-pin (£20), twin kit (£39), or 13-pin (£45) versions. What's all that about?! I don't know what a 13-pin even is, let alone whether it would fit on my van.

But then the next box says Skoda dedicated electrics, in 7-pin (£140), twin kit (£191) or 13-pin (£195) flavours. So I'm guessing that I only need either the universal electric kit of choice at between £20 and £45, or the Skoda version of same at between £140 and £195?

So what do I get for the extra £100-£150 difference between equivalent universal or dedicated kits? Rear fog and reversing sensors deactivated and alarm if disconnected with alarm set? That don't seem like good value for the extra money?

Edited 3 August, 2012 by ex750

[lowedb]

13 pin is the newer standard where one socket replaces the old grey and black sockets (2x7 pin).

It will depend on what's on your van or trailer really but you can get an adaptor. Personally I have put 13 pins on all of my cars and converted my van and trailer to suit. The 13 pin is easier to connect and disconnect, plus it's sealed when connected. It just looks better all round to me, plus on my Superb I'll be able to tuck it out of the way when not in use which I'd have struggled with if I'd had two sockets.

Regarding skoda specific versus universal. The skoda one wil do rear fogs and reversing sensors as you say. It will detect all bulb failures on the trailer / van as far as I know, and for the indicators you don't get the irritating beep when towing, just a warning if the indicators fail. Finally if programmed properly, on some if not all models, it activates the towing stability in ESP. Not much use for just a small trailer, but worthwhile for a van.

Regarding the Westfalia bar. Picked up from PF Jones today and it looks fine. Not tried to fit it yet but quality seems OK, and it does say SIARR on it.

Edited 3 August, 2012 by lowedb

[ex750]

Well I find it unlikely I'll be choosing PFJones to supply it, no matter what I choose - here's my conversation with their online help thus far:

Mike 14:19:00 anyone here?

System 14:19:05 mark ward enters the chatroom.

mark ward 14:19:09 Hello Mike, my name is mark ward, how may I help you?

Mike 14:19:26 Have you got my question?

mark ward 14:20:13 Hello the dedicated electrics are designed for that exact model and require no cutting of any wires like you have to with a universal kit

Mike 14:20:37 and thats it?

mark ward 14:20:53 Also the dedicated kits will not invalidate your warranty

Mike 14:21:14 ah right, so a universal one will invalidate it?

I thought that had been made unlawful now, to 'penalise' customers for buying items of equivalent specification to dealers but through an independent?

mark ward 14:23:02 it is a grey area, some dealers are fine with it but most recommend a dedicated as we do (not sure on last question)

Mike 14:24:35 Can't remember which directive it was now, but it was the one that allowed people to have their new cars serviced at independents and still maintain the new car warranty as though it had been serviced at the dealer.

Still, not really relevant here

Is the fitting price the same irrespective of which type I choose?

mark ward 14:25:40 The problem lies with the fact you have to cut into the wiring with a universal kit

No can be more for dedicated

Mike 14:29:21 My new car is a bit ... odd. It includes 'features' (more stuff to go wrong!) when towing such as; setting off the car alarm if the hitch is disconnected while the car is locked, disabling the rear parking sensors when connected to caravan, and only turning on the caravan foglight and not the car one. Apparently this is done via some programming gubbins during the fitting - does your fitting price include this reprogramming? And what is the fitting price for this bar http://www.pfjones.co.uk/skoda-superb-combi-estate-2010-onwards-swan-neck-tow-bar.html#.UBvH_EVDzfU with the universal 7 pin kit, and for the Skoda 7 pin kit please?

(Sorry for so many questions at once!)

mark ward 14:32:22 Fitting with 7 pin dedicated electrics is £155 & the coding is £70

Mike 14:35:14 so that's £225 fitting total, plus £113 for the towbar itself, plus £145 for the dedicated electrics? £485 total? That can't be right, its dearer than my main dealer price!

mark ward 14:36:18 whats towbar code you are after

Mike 14:37:29 I don't have a code. I have a 2011 Skoda Superb Elegance estate, which has no factory preparation for towing, and I'm looking at what sort of bar I can get on it, from ALL permutations

mark ward 14:37:54 detachable or fixed

Mike 14:38:23 I'm not bothered about programming the cars foglight to stay off if that's all I get for £70 coding. Fixed really, unless there really is only a very modest difference between fix and detach

still here mark?

mark ward 14:43:22 yes

Mike 14:45:16 you asked whether I wanted fix or detach? I answered either, really. Are you waiting for me to give something more, or is that all the info you need?

mark ward 14:46:30 one stays all the time other detaches

Mike 14:48:17 Okay, in words of one syllable for the hard of reading... I can have EITHER fixed or detach, I'm not really bothered which. Are you able to give me a price on a bar for my car or are we just wasting each others time?

[ex750]

My van is here http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wiqypy&s=6

It has no electrics, making the second socket redundant. It's so tiny it doesn't even have any braking, and the snatch cable is a dummy. It normally lives on the back of the Minor its attached to in the photo, but occasionally I have to move it without the Minor and I'm just looking for the most cost-effective way of achieving that

[lowedb]

I can see your point. I didn't ask any questions, just went online and bought the thing, will be fitting myself.

Nice mog. I have a 53 splitscreen in bits for over 20 years. I am MMOC as well, though not active!

[phil_taylor_towbars]

One point that hasn't been mentioned yet and probably the most important feature that a vehicle specific kit will enable is Trailer Stability Program which is built into most Skodas now (Octavia, Superb, Yeti amongst others) which is not enabled with the universal kit as the car cannot detect that it is towing. TSP is built into the car's ESP system and can detect any snaking motion from the caravan and bring it back under control using the brakes individually on the car.

This feature is definately something you would want to consider if you are towing a caravan. If your caravan only has the standard 7 pin plug there is no need to opt for the 13 pin. This can always be added at a later date if needed.

[phil_taylor_towbars]

And to clear up your point about dealers allowing customers to use independent garages and still maintain the warranty(Block Exemption rules) the universal kit is not the OE equivalent so they would be well within their rights to reject a warranty claim if they felt the towbar installation was the cause of the fault

[lowedb]

One point that hasn't been mentioned yet and probably the most important feature that a vehicle specific kit will enable is Trailer Stability Program which is built into most Skodas now (Octavia, Superb, Yeti amongst others) which is not enabled with the universal kit as the car cannot detect that it is towing. TSP is built into the car's ESP system and can detect any snaking motion from the caravan and bring it back under control using the brakes individually on the car.

This feature is definately something you would want to consider if you are towing a caravan.

I agree, apart from it not being mentioned before. Post #15.

[Tech1e]

Just make sure when someone is fitting the electrics you don't end up with a mess like this

Genuine tow bar, fitted by sub contractor with aftermarket electrics. Bypass relay fitted to fudge can signals rather than using the correct approved wiring kit into the BCM. Led to melted wires, airbags going off and a complete new wiring harness.

[dieselV6]

Regarding the Westfalia bar. Picked up from PF Jones today and it looks fine. Not tried to fit it yet but quality seems OK, and it does say SIARR on it.

Would you care to share a photo like I did here?

http://www.briskoda....-best-to-avoid/

Bent Flange photo:

This photo shows that flange is twisted about 4-5deg to car axis. For my towbar box it would mean one edge of the box 40mm closer to the car than the opposite edge.

Also, the overall workmanship quality left a lot to be desired, already damaged corossion protection out of factory sealed box.

Edited 6 August, 2012 by dieselV6

[lowedb]

Sorry for the late reply, been away with the van but towing with my Rover.

I can't post a direct comparison as mines a detacheable, but I'll take a couple of photos before I fit it.