Visited my local Skoda dealer in Norwich and enquired about my Yeti SE 2.0 TDI CR being used in Europe in the winter as I wanted to visit my sister in Germany over the Christmas hols.

Nobody seemed to know what I would have to do i.e. is it compulsory to have winter tyres fitted although we do not make it law in the UK? Also can you fit winter chains to the front tyres with 17 inch Dolomite alloys? The only thing they could show me on the internet was snow socks?

Went away rather surprised as this is supposed to be used as an off road vehicle and nobody knew anything about winter driving in Europe.

So can you actually install chains on the Dolomite wheels and is it law for a UK car to have winter tyres once you cross the Channel to France and then onto Germany. I do know my sister has to change her tyres in a garage as it is registered in Germany but like some of the French laws they are rarely imposed in the 30 years or so of driving around their country.

Anybody out there know what the situation is with winter driving across our Channel?

Will be over there for just 5 days.

FlyingBrick

PS: some little teenager managed to pull off the wiper/spray plastic cover of the back of my Yeti on the LD lines ferry boat this summer coming home. Guilty looking youth in front with a Range Rover and two Shimano flashy racing bikes on the back from the Sussex area.

Its prohibited to have summer rubber fitted in Germany during wintery conditions. Our German friends generally change over in October. You have to have winter tyres or at very least, all seasons fitted that display the appropriate symbol on the tyres sidewall. These rules apply for a visit to Germany for any length of time. Iirc you cant fit snow chains to the factory 17" front alloys, rears only. Ive driven in Germany, Switzerland etc a few times now on the winters and Ive not encountered a situation thats stopped me - winter tyres on a 4x4 yeti are a formidable combination.

With the standard tyres and 17" rims you cannot fit chains to a Yeti.

Chains are not compulsory in most of Europe, only apparently on some high Alpine passes, however the fitting of Winter tyres, with the snow flake symbol, is. (And to be honest they probably are just as good!) If you do not have the correct tyres fitted then you could be at risk of annoying Herr/Messr Plod, which isn't a good idea and potentially very expensive.

My brother-in-law lives in Switzerland and doesn't even own a set of chains, but at the end of October every year all the men in their appartment block have a party one Saturday afternoon whilst doing a mass wheel change! The car park even has a designated and fitted wheel storage area.

And the fitment of chains has little to do with the Yeti being an off-road vehicle; that is more to do with ground clearance, approach, departure and ramp-over angles, where the Yeti excels.

I have been driving to my sister's in Frankfurt for the xmas vac since 2003 at least. The vexed question of winter tyres "over there" is according to my information. they are not a legal requirement, however if you should be involved in an accident, or get stuck, the police may assume some degree of contributory negligence. You may find your insurance will be iffy about it too. I was assured (for whatever that is worth!) that this does not mean it is compulsory for visitors, but it does look like a grey area.

As far as I know, snow chains are only compulsory in marked areas, mountainous areas, ski resorts and the like and are usually illegal elsewhere. as are studded tyres on autobahn.

There are far more miles of Autobahn with speed restrictions than without now. Most traffic will be going fast. I use the A5 a lot and am usually among the slower passenger vehicles at between 80-90mph. Beware the fast boys at 120+, there are more than you would think.

You must have a triangle, and deploy it if stopped by reason of breakdown or accident. You must have a first aid kit and fire extinguisher, I have not heard of a requirement for bulbs or hiviz, but you must offer assistance in the event of an accident. Some people were sent to prison recently for not doing so.

You must never leave you car unlocked, or wash it on Sunday in certain areas. You must have your vehicle documents and personal ID at all times.

New this year is the Umweltplakette, a green emissions disc, but only for certain limited areas. You can get one via internet sites for about £15 or by taking your V5 into any place that does the TUV, cost 5 euros, It is not a test, it is issued on the basis of the manufactures figures.

http://www.german-way.com/driving-environmental-zones.html

Frankfurt centre bans all vehicles without a level 4, but the actual area is quite small and most TUV stations are outside it. There are plans to radically expand both the areas and the number of towns and cities demanding it. It is not compatible with the London or Italian ones, but is valid for the life of the vehicle.

France is well documented. Spare set of bulbs - whether you are able to fit or not. A hiviz jacket for everyone outside the vehicle at the scene of an accident or breakdown. A double breathalyser kit (from November i believe) rumor has it that you can be nicked once you have used the first, as you then no longer have one - we'll see. They should be available from chemists and filling stations, 7 euros for a double. The limit is lower than here, so best the "driving=no booze" policy. More than x% over the limit, a mandatory prison sentence, and at some point I think your vehicle can be crushed too. I think draconian just about covers it.

A first aid kit and triangle, and a country identifier ie a GB plate for most of us. Many years ago I was forced to buy one at exorbitant cost going into Germany from Austria. I have a magnetic one now. I really don't want to advertise my "alienness " any more than necessary. Number plates with "ENG" "SCOT" or "TAFF" or whatever do not fufil the requirements of the Geneva Convention, which is the legislation requiring the state identifier.

Beam deflectors, another fine mess. Yes you are supposed to not dazzle, but an Octavia 1Z at least has the little gizzmo to "flatten" the nearside kickup. I have always used this, or on my 1U a bit of electrical tape, you can see where it needs to go. 1Z headlamps have polycarbonate lenses, which are susceptible to damage from glues and hydrocarbons. I presume there is a lens coating applied but as Skoda made it easy for us, I just flip the little metal bar, and lower the beam a bit. But then I only do continental night driving under duress.

Speed got a mention earlier, but traffic calming in villages is getting to be a bit beyond a joke, Gendarme dormir like the north face of the Eiger, pinch points that would normally only be seen on Ski Sunday. Should you fail to slow enough and get caught, have cash available, or the ability to use a cash machine.

Been a bit distracted during this so may have forgotten some!

So if I take my two wheel front drive Yeti over to Germany at Christmas I will be breaking the law with the standard tyres fitted when I collected it last year from the dealer. When the misses comes home I will check but of course they will be standard issue tyres on the 17 inch rim.

A very expensive visit just for 5 days to buy a new set of tyres/rims for German use?

If it was law over here in the UK then no problem but if I spent out all that money with our crowded roads on winter tyres then I get all that extra grip and matey drives straight up my backside as he slides along the road in the standard tyres.

This is the big problem in the UK as the roads around my area are chocker block in the morning and I can drive around with winter tyres but the odd hundred or so other cars still block the road as they slide about on summer tyres getting up our hill in frosty or snow covered roads.

My Yeti has covered 15,000 miles nearly over the last year and we have returned 48 mpg over 2,000miles fully loaded and the air con on driving to Dover from Norfolk and around the South West Coast of France this summer. Keeping below 75mph on the toll roads brought in 51 mpg with the air con off.

No problems to shout about yet but it has twice stalled / cut out on tick over just as I was turning right across the road? Not happened before but has started coming back home from our long trip.

FlyingBrick

I have been driving to my sister's in Frankfurt for the xmas vac since 2003 at least. The vexed question of winter tyres "over there" is according to my information. they are not a legal requirement, however if you should be involved in an accident, or get stuck, the police may assume some degree of contributory negligence. You may find your insurance will be iffy about it too. I was assured (for whatever that is worth!) that this does not mean it is compulsory for visitors, but it does look like a grey area.

As far as I know, this is incorrect. It is indeed a legal requirement and has been for a few years now. Its as much a case of if you are caught without them fitted as it is if you cause an incident or block a road without them fitted im afraid.

So if I take my two wheel front drive Yeti over to Germany at Christmas I will be breaking the law with the standard tyres fitted when I collected it last year from the dealer. When the misses comes home I will check but of course they will be standard issue tyres on the 17 inch rim.

A very expensive visit just for 5 days to buy a new set of tyres/rims for German use?

Correct. And yes it is an additional expense you have to swallow if you intend to go in the Winter time.

My brother in law lives in Aachen, winter tyres are not a legal requirement, but as mentioned above it would not be favourable if you were involved in an acccident in which the type of tyre fiitted would influence the outcome. I go over every christmas, two years ago we had fourteen inches of snow overnight.

I was in a front wheel drive Mazda with Michelin energy savers fitted, it took four people pushing to get the car moving, and the germans were not treating or clearing the roads. Thats why I got the Yeti and will be getting winter tyres. The cost of the tyres is offset by the fact that you only wear one set out at a time.

A quick google search: Guidelines for Winter:

Winter Tire Laws in Germany

Germany has always had requirements for winter tires during the ice and snow season, but in November 2010, those requirements turned into a much more specific federal law for all of Germany.

Germany’s new winter tire law came about after a German court ruled in the case of a motorist who had protested a fine levied for not having snow tires on his car. In July 2010, the court determined that the current law was indeed too vague and that the term geeignete Bereifung (“appropriate set of tires”) failed to actually specify the use of winter tires.

The Law Regarding Snow Tires

In November 2010, responding to the court’s decision, the Bundestag, Germany’s parliament, passed a new federal law that is much more specific about winter tires. It also doubles the fines for drivers caught without snow tires or who have an accident in winter conditions without snow tires on their vehicle.

Von O bis O

Most German motorists have long known the old rule of thumb for putting snow tires on the car: “von O bis O.” The term “from O to O” is short for “from October to Easter” (von Oktober bis Ostern). It is a recommendation that one should make the change from regular tires to snow tires in October, and leave them on until Easter.

The new German law does not set any time limits, but it does clearly state that under icy conditions (bei Glatteis, Schneeglätte, Schneematsch, Eis- und Reifglätte) you must not drive without snow tires on your vehicle. So, since it’s difficult to predict the weather, for all practical purposes, the old “von O bis O” rule still applies. (In Austria, winter tires are mandatory from November 1 to April 15.)

The new law also spells out what a “winter tire” is. Specifically, it is an M+S-Reifen, a mud-and-snow tire that has an official M+S (Matsch und Schnee) marking on it. (M+S tires do not have to be “winter” tires. All-year or all-weather M+S tires also qualify.) The German automobile club ADAC recommends going a step further and getting tires with the “three-peak-mountain” seal, an indication of snow tires that meet the highest standards.

ADAC also makes another recommendation that goes beyond the minimum requirements of the law. While the Straßenverkehrsordnung (StVO) requires a minimum snow tire tread depth (Profiltiefe) of 1.6 mm, ADAC ups that to 4.0 mm.

Thanks for the clarification. However according to a German lawyer friend of my sisters, it still leaves the door wide open. If there is no snow or ice, then the conditions are suitable for "ordinary" tyres. In essence nothing changed. You have an accident - you're in trouble.

Snow chains cannot be fitted to 225/50 tyres at the front, however 4x4 can have them on the rear.

To fit chains on the front then you need one of the following tyre and rim combinations;

6J x16 ET50 - 205/55 R16 94H M+S (91H acceptable for 2wd 90kW engine) (91T acceptable for 2wd 77 & 81kW engines) (Not GreenLine II)

7J x16 ET45 - 205/55 R16 94H M+S (91H acceptable for 2wd 90kW engine) (91T acceptable for 2wd 77 & 81kW engines)

6J x17 ET45 - 205/50 R17 93H M+S (Note: Skoda Flash alloys 6J 17 ET45 are available as a dealer supplied winter fit option) (Not GreenLine II)

Owners handbook refers, to some of the above.

Other option is to fit Goodyear Vector 4seaon or Hankook Optimo 4S tyres in place of the factory summer sports tyres, as these 4 season carry the full winter tyre mountain with snowflake symbol.

TP

So regarding the original question from the OP

I wanted to visit my sister in Germany over the Christmas hols.

Nobody seemed to know what I would have to do i.e. is it compulsory to have winter tyres fitted although we do not make it law in the UK?

Yes, I believe it is now the law and its not just a case of being involved in an incident, it you are caught on anything but winter or all season rubber in wintry conditions then you should expect a fine and points on the German register at the very least.

Thanks for the clarification. However according to a German lawyer friend of my sisters, it still leaves the door wide open. If there is no snow or ice, then the conditions are suitable for "ordinary" tyres. In essence nothing changed. You have an accident - you're in trouble.

A very different opinion from my friends in the South that I double checked with last night. Its the law, end of. Personally Im not in to loop holes or bending the rules, id rather stick to the rules, especially in another country.

Thanks to everybody for all that information on tyres in winter driving around Europe.

Very informative from you all and will let the wife decide if she wants to drive there with the cost of winter tyres or fly out from Stansted airport via Conair to Frankfurt Hahn and hire a winterised vehicle to get to Ramscheid.

A great forum with a lot of knowledgeable members to answer questions on Skoda’s.

FlyingBrick

With the standard tyres and 17" rims you cannot fit chains to a Yeti.

Chains are not compulsory in most of Europe, only apparently on some high Alpine passes, however the fitting of Winter tyres, with the snow flake symbol, is. (And to be honest they probably are just as good!) If you do not have the correct tyres fitted then you could be at risk of annoying Herr/Messr Plod, which isn't a good idea and potentially very expensive.

My brother-in-law lives in Switzerland and doesn't even own a set of chains, but at the end of October every year all the men in their appartment block have a party one Saturday afternoon whilst doing a mass wheel change! The car park even has a designated and fitted wheel storage area.

And the fitment of chains has little to do with the Yeti being an off-road vehicle; that is more to do with ground clearance, approach, departure and ramp-over angles, where the Yeti excels.

Hi

Are you sure? Snow chains listed as an officlal accessory for Yeti 17"

http://www.accessories.skoda.co.uk/productsList.aspx?type=a&id=13&main=Safety%20and%20Security⊂=Snow%20Chains

Hi

Are you sure? Snow chains listed as an officlal accessory for Yeti 17"

http://www.accessori...sub=Snow Chains

Yes, very sure, thank you.

Read TP's posting at #11, above.

Yes, very sure, thank you.

Read TP's posting at #11, above.

Cheers, saved me buying some! - not that I've needed them yet. I tried really hard to get my Yeti stuck in snow last year, but on my Vredstein snow tyres, it just refused to stop/slide in the snow!

I see on the link that Skoda are their usual confusing selves, the first chains actualy say only to be used on the back of a Yeti, but the second does not. Although on the second they mention 205/50/17 tyres

Cheers, saved me buying some! - not that I've needed them yet. I tried really hard to get my Yeti stuck in snow last year, but on my Vredstein snow tyres, it just refused to stop/slide in the snow!

So which tyres do you have? Snow tyres or winter tyres?

I thought that generally we don't have snow tyres over here in the UK, and they were used in places like Scandanavia.

I see on the link that Skoda are their usual confusing selves, the first chains actualy say only to be used on the back of a Yeti, but the second does not. Although on the second they mention 205/50/17 tyres

The first set are for 215/60 R16 or 225/50 R17 which are too wide to accept snow chains on the front without damaging suspension.

The other set are for narrower tyres and can be fitted to front or rear wheels without fouling the suspension.

Seems clear enough to me.

The first set are for 215/60 R16 or 225/50 R17 which are too wide to accept snow chains on the front without damaging suspension.

The other set are for narrower tyres and can be fitted to front or rear wheels without fouling the suspension.

Seems clear enough to me.

Slight addition/clarification if I may; using 205/50 tyres on 17" rims, then the rims must be 6J wide not the standard 7J of the Dolomite or Spitzburg for example, to permit chains at the front. With the 16" however, then with 205/55 either a 6 or 7J rim can be used.

TP

Slight addition/clarification if I may; using 205/50 tyres on 17" rims, then the rims must be 6J wide not the standard 7J of the Dolomite or Spitzburg for example, to permit chains at the front. With the 16" however, then with 205/55 either a 6 or 7J rim can be used.

TP

You most certainly may Sir!!!