Wouldn't mind trying 102ron it's just a shame it's rare and really expensive

Its the standard premuim option in many country's I visit and its cheaper in some than our 95ron rated stuff! Depressing stuff!

Goes to show how much of a rip off this country is

Is 100(+) RON fuel available in this country?

The vRS seems really good on it Martin, and as focus says, was just a little mire expensive than their 95 in Europe!

I can't see no reason why we aren't using it here apart from price. Done some digging and a station by Silverstone do sell it but for twice the price of normal petrol. I don't see why they can't make 95ron cheaper, 98 the price of 95 now then 102 the price of 98. they'd still be raking it in. The only problem is that on some days I can't even get Momentum out of the 3 Tesco by me and only one Shell had VPower left. Surely this proves that there's demand for high octane fuels here it just needs better distribution and more pumps.

below is what nick has to say to this thread via facebook !! the guy is a legend and imo not many people in this country can touch him on knowledge enjoy the read !!

We was pumping the fuel in direct to HPFP line, Then timing knock, load and ADD MULT STFTs LTFTs where all reset in the ecu. The car then had the exact same 20mile load cycle to to adapt the car, then 4 back to back power runs all with data logging. It's total Bull crap saying it take 4 tanks, who ever is saying that had not got a single clue how an Adaptive ecu works. It's the same old, some one on a forum post it takes 4 tanks then everyone becomes a keyboard warrior to defend the comments.. Lol. Vicky could "feel" the improved power using same adaption methods and within 30miles driving. I do this day in day out and have seen consistent results over the last 7years on all 1.8t and 2.0tfi setups. I don't stack shelfs for a living, then go on a forum and pretend I know everything because.

If the briskoda boys want to prove this 4 tank filling myth then they are more than welcome to have an open day at rtech use the dyno and show me the data and numbers.....

So what they are saying is if I am running vpower fuel on a car then switch to 95 the cars is not going to pick up the knock until over 1200miles and 4 tanks of fuel?? Then when I switch back vpower the knock routine is still going to hold the timing back, when the ecu sw is designed to to reapply timing is a set time, within milliseconds not the time it takes to use 4 tanks of fuel.

So what's the point of the ecu having a complex knock control to instantly detect the fuel/combustion quality if the ecu is going to wait until 1200miles later.

Fuel is not magical potion, it's the RON that's makes it or brakes it. The lower the RON the more knock the car is going to see "instantly" at which point the ecu pulls timing away to a point which best suites the fuel quality, this all works via real time knock sensor voltage. Optimised power from the 2.0tfsi would be 0CF over the whole power run. The Asda fuel was pulling a routine of -6.5CF off the timing maps at points to run safe. Where the V-power ran a 0CF on all 4 runs allowing the ecu to run its optimised timing advance at a safe level. The Vpower did not add extra power to the engine it just allowed the ecu to run its optimised timing advance.

All these briskoda boys need to do is repeat the tests we did....... But they cannot can they? As what happens is they will fill up with vpower while still having 20ltrs of happy shopper fuel in the tank, which then dilutes the vpower, then the next tank the full up with more vpower, and top up the already diluted vpower, so maybe at 96.5 / 97ron? Tank number 3 then tank number 4 it will near enough be running the full vpower ron. So maybe won't see the full potential of the fuel until Its neat. These reason we used small fuel tanks with fuel at 5bar direct into the hpfp feed.

I bet you £50 non of them have fully emptied and drained a tank of 95, filled up with vpower, reset there ecu the logged the instant timing corrections back to back at the same time measuring the hp on a dyno........ If the ecu is pulling timing out its running less power.

Useful info the chap is obviously very knowledgeable and experienced. Clears up the discussion about "3 or 4" tankfulls theory. Shame he's got such a bee in his bonnet tho! Comes across a tad patronising don't you think? I don't think anybody was being personally critical towards him or his test, just some general forum discussion. ;-)

Agree the guy does come across as arrogant !

What is knock ?

What is knock ?

The fuel exploding too early which causes a knocking sound iirc (higher RON explodes at the correct point, lower RON explodes too early) so there are knock sensors which detect this and adjust the timing accordingly

Thats my basic interpretation of what is going on, I'm sure someone will be able to correct me

Edited 26 September, 201213 yr by Gumby

Is 100(+) RON fuel available in this country?

Yes, as 'Racing Fuel'.

However, it's normally delivered from a 25l Drum. Places like Demon Tweeks sell it. There used to be pumps a one or two race circuits, but I don't this there is anymore.

Does this happen with diesel also?when I use standard diesel car is much noisier but when I use vpower it's much quieter

No right up to date, but it tells enough about other countries and fuels.

http://www.en.wikipe...i/Octane_rating

http://www.tesco.com/Momentum99/productBenefits-specs.asp

george

Does this happen with diesel also?when I use standard diesel car is much noisier but when I use vpower it's much quieter

Yes and you want to happen. It's called Cetane for Diesels. However in both cases, normally the higher the number the better, so:

Cetane = how quickly it goes bang from when its injected

Octane = how resistant it is to going bang

High Cetane is good for diesel as it burns more thoroughly. High octane is good for petrol as its reduces pre-ignition and knocking, a smoother burn rather than a bang!

Yes and you want to happen. It's called Cetane for Diesels. However in both cases, normally the higher the number the better, so:

Cetane = how quickly it goes bang from when its injected

Octane = how resistant it is to going bang

High Cetane is good for diesel as it burns more thoroughly. High octane is good for petrol as its reduces pre-ignition and knocking, a smoother burn rather than a bang!

Thanx jim car is much better on the better quality stuff

Here is the vid from 4 or 5 years ago when 5th Gear last tested petrols.

It's just a shame they didn't use standard Shell and BP, to see if they was a different to Supermarket fuel.

Agree the guy does come across as arrogant !

if you have got 10-15 forums bitching about it though of course hes going to be a little wound up

I can see his point everybody has got an opinion but somepeople try to make there opinion fact even though its not

I know nothing about fuels apart from my LCR doesnt like anything under 98 ron, due to the APR 98 ron mapping

Cntuning, many thanks for getting this from the horses mouth so to say. It is always nice to try and understand exactly how the tests have been run and this certainly explains it. Wasn't sure how long an ECU would take to reset going upwards in RON as the engine needs to know it will be seeing the same fuel for a while i.e. providing a safety net, and would altomatically expect it to drop as soon as it notes a decrease in RON so as not to cause damage, but this is a very good explanation.

The fuel dilution issue that he cites is quite correct and if you still have a sizeable volume of low octane fuel in the tank when you add the higher octane fuel the resultant octane will be proportional to the volume/ron of each fuel now in the tank, so that is understandable and perhaps explains some peoples comments about always requirng 3 or 4 fills to get the full advantage. Never really understood this comment as I beleived that the little electronic box in the car to be a little better than that. Also the fact that I always run my tank low before adding more fuel (doing 4 to 500 miles a week stopping for fuel is something i don't enjoy).

Many thanks

Maybe have a look at how Standard & Premium used to be mixed.

see the Octane Rating back 50 years ago.

http://www.igg.org.u...pp1/gar-pet.htm

It says not common by the 60's.

Well it was still common in the North of Scotland when i was a child.

When i worked while at school as a Petrol Pump attendant in the 70's,

1 or 2 shots of red per gallon was still very common. 5 pence a shot/dash of (Redex UCL)

Customers might say, "5 gallons and 5 shots." or whatever.

george

Redex doesnt alter octane is a system cleaner , similar chemicals are found in many premium fuels nowadays but modern petrols are generally much cleaner burning than those of the 60's and 70's as are modern engines , when was the last time you heard of someone doing a de-coke?? They used to be a garages bread and butter

You can buy race fuels in loads of places including mail order, I used to buy mine at the drag strip when i had a vehicle which needed such fuels (116-118 octane) , there are many more factors that determine how much power a certain fuel makes not just octane

It is the Octane rating of the 5 star back then that my ramblings of a befuddled mind remembers with some joy.

It, (red) did not even effect the Customers cars in a good way back then. It did not often, actually get squirted in the tank.

Many a mickle macs a muckle.

Those 5 pences added up to enough petrol to run your mopeds on.

george

Maybe have a look at how Standard & Premium used to be mixed.

see the Octane Rating back 50 years ago.

http://www.igg.org.u...pp1/gar-pet.htm

It says not common by the 60's.

Well it was still common in the North of Scotland when i was a child.

george

Looking at that link, the old system was:

1 star was the lowest grade (was it ever available?)

2 star was 92 octane

3 star 95 octane

4 star 98 octane

5 star 101 octane.

The lower end was for the low tuned/low compression older design of engine (and skin flints ) the middle range for more modern higher compression engines and the skin flints who got sick of that awful pinking noise and five star was for big, fast and powerful engines. I think BL made an A-series engine with low compression to run on low octane fuel. I'm sure I read that cars like the Rover 2000TC were designed for 5*.fuel, due to the higher compression. (10.5:1, not 9:1).

I can remember seeing 2 star petrol sold at pumps, obviously 4*, but I can't remember the rest.

Edited 27 September, 201213 yr by Jim H

I had a Datsun Sunny* in my youth that would run on 2 star or 3 star , in the forces all the petrol pumps were 3 star it was only when the forces bought the MK2 Cavalier 1.6 that they needed to use 4 star so they got fuel cards and we used Shell or BP stations . I heard of 5star but it predates my driving days

*In fact most Japanese cars and motorcycles would run happily on 2 star

Hi use Vpower in my MX5 (1600) found it makes it more responsive and better acceleration. In my Mk1 VRS no difference the vpower diesel just the same as supermarket diesel and just the same performance and economy. awaiting delivery of new MK2 VRS will let you know the difference.

Why have you bumped it?

Because when re-reading it, it crossed my mind there was more to this thread than in the V Power Nitro one,

so i bumped it..

george