Rattling from turbo/wastegate, anyone else?

[Snowman89]

I noticed a rattling noice which i thought came from around the turbo area for some time ago.

Today i dropped off my car to my local Skoda dealer, after lunch they gave me a call and they found the cause of the noice.

VAG claims that this noice is something they know about and the stealer found it in theyr database when searching for a possible cause of the sound.

Apparently it is a bearing in the wastegate that is making the rattling noice and VAG says its "ok" just a "unwanted feature".. I think this feels very strange..

The noice is mainly hearable if i open the door or window and push the throttle to rev up the engine to 3000rpm and then let go, when the RPM starts dropping i can hear it clearly when sitting in the drivers position with the door open (sitting on left side). The car is a Fabia 1.2 TSI 2012 and it is about 1month old and has done 1000miles.

Have anyone else heard this noice? Would it really be considerd to be normal to have a rattling noice on a new car? :S

Edited 10 January, 2013 by Snowman89

[stu_mcl]

I seem to recall i few member on here about a year ago saying there was a recall on the 1.2tsi so they coudl fit a shim to the turbo......cant remember if that was the problem it fixed though

[Snowman89]

I seem to recall i few member on here about a year ago saying there was a recall on the 1.2tsi so they coudl fit a shim to the turbo......cant remember if that was the problem it fixed though

Thanks for your reply.

Ive also read about the shim, but i think that was a recall from VAG. Im not sure why they fitted the shim or what it was supposed to fix.

But i dont think its the same problem as i have since the stealer told me VAG know about the noice but says there is nothing to do except to the customer where it comes from and why there is a rattling noice..

I just think it sounds strange to have a brand new car that was rattling from the first miles and is supposed to continue doing that for the rest of the lifetime of the car.. It doesnt really fill you with confident about the quality of the car..

Will try and record the sound tomorrow and post a video

Edited 11 January, 2013 by Snowman89

[Ootohere]

Who was it that actually told you that,

was it the Workshop or service manager or some trained technician?

I always ask at a Service desk if they would mind if they can write down on a Dealership headed service sheet what they are saying and give their name and sign it..

george

[Snowman89]

Who was it that actually told you that,

was it the Workshop or service manager or some trained technician?

I always ask at a Service desk if they would mind if they can write down on a Dealership headed service sheet what they are saying and give their name and sign it..

george

It was the service manager.

He even showed me the printed sheet from the "VAG database" which they use to search for possible errors in. But i requested if i could keep the paper but apparently they are "classified" so i could not keep it..

He also told me that they would register that my car has this rattling in the computer system, IF i would have any more trouble with it.

But i will make a short video of the sound tomorrow so you guys can listen to it and see what you think.

[Dean-]

Just tell them you want it sorting - If it were not doing this when purchased I would say it is a fault. Ask him if he can replicate the issue with another car on the forecourt.

[Snowman89]

Just tell them you want it sorting - If it were not doing this when purchased I would say it is a fault. Ask him if he can replicate the issue with another car on the forecourt.

The problem is that i didnt buy the car from that specific dealer. I bought the car 150miles away.

I didnt really listen since i cant hear it when driving and only when revving the car when im standing still. The noice is surely still there when im driving but i cant hear it due to the road noice.

According to the VAG message just some cars suffer from this, not all. But there is nothing to do according to them, something it find very strange..

Edited 12 January, 2013 by Snowman89

[Ootohere]

"Classified."

I am starting to believe that Skoda/VAG or their Dealerships do expect owners to listen to such crap and put up with faulty or sub standard build vehicles.

Your warranty is with Skoda and i would contact them and have them confirm that you are supposed to accept sub standard vehicles and the buying experience has to be a lottery.

Personally i would tell the dealer that you are not prepared to accept a noisy one and they will have to get back onto Skoda about a warranty claim to have the faulty parts replaced.

Tell them that the vehicle is so new that they can start the 'rejection process' on the vehicle and you could have an independent examination of the vehicle.

1 month and 1000 miles might need some running in, but not put up with something and hope it gets better.

If you bought it 1500 miles away, has it now done more than this mileage by now?

No idea how your consumer rights work there,

but i imagine there is no 'Classified Documents' if they are covering known faults.

You will have legal redress i imagine.

george

[Snowman89]

"Classified."

I am starting to believe that Skoda/VAG or their Dealerships do expect owners to listen to such crap and put up with faulty or sub standard build vehicles.

Your warranty is with Skoda and i would contact them and have them confirm that you are supposed to accept sub standard vehicles and the buying experience has to be a lottery.

Personally i would tell the dealer that you are not prepared to accept a noisy one and they will have to get back onto Skoda about a warranty claim to have the faulty parts replaced.

Tell them that the vehicle is so new that they can start the 'rejection process' on the vehicle and you could have an independent examination of the vehicle.

1 month and 1000 miles might need some running in, but not put up with something and hope it gets better.

If you bought it 1500 miles away, has it now done more than this mileage by now?

No idea how your consumer rights work there,

but i imagine there is no 'Classified Documents' if they are covering known faults.

You will have legal redress i imagine.

george

Haha yeah i know.. First i thought he was joking when he said he could not hand the papers out since it was classified.. But apparently it was really classified..

Thanks i will try and give them a call tomorrow! Lets hope someone with a bit of mechanical knowlegde will be in the house tomorrow.

Sorry 1500miles is incorrect, converting from swedish "mil" to km and then to miles was messing with my head, it should have been 150miles.

I actually just read the swedish "department" for legal rights when buying things and as you say i seem to have full legal rights.

The law states that the seller HAVE to adress the problem. In my case it might be hard since VAG does not consider this to be a problem since just some cars might have this rattling..

But i will post a video here tomorrow for you guys to listen and i will also try and give Skoda Sweden a call.

Thanks for your reply George

[Ootohere]

Good luck with things.

I hope your country have the likes of Trading Standards.

Your 'Legal Rights' will mean its not for Skoda to decide what are problems or not.

They need to tell the Buyer the problems or no problems,

getting flashed a 'Confidential document' is a joke.

Its time that more publicity gets given to how VAG/Skoda deal with vehicles with poorly manufactured parts.

The likes of Twincharger thing will bite their bum soon hopefully.

They are sounding more and more like 3 Monkeys.

Hear, See & say no evil.

all the best

george

[Snowman89]

Good luck with things.

I hope your country have the likes of Trading Standards.

Your 'Legal Rights' will mean its not for Skoda to decide what are problems or not.

Its time that more publicity gets given to how VAG/Skoda deal with vehicles with poorly manufactured parts.

The likes of Twincharger thing will bite their bum soon hopefully.

They are sounding more and more like 3 Monkeys.

Hear, See & say no evil.

all the best

george

Thanks.

I found a video on youtube that shows kind of the same sound as i have. Mine is a bit less but still appears when doing the same thing and sounds like it to.

I think the swedish trading standards are quite strict so i will give Skoda a call tomorrow and hear what they have to say and if they dont want to do anything i will give a "legal advisor" regarding theese things a call on monday.

Indeed its quite sad that VAG wont take responsible for the problems that their cars have. Instead they try and say that its "normal" and just wait for the car to break completly or just go out of warranty..

If i would not have made this thread i dont think i would have called Skoda or thought more about this rattling at all..

Edited 12 January, 2013 by Snowman89

[stratosg]

MIne does this sound too. Since day one. They told me that this is normal. Car drives just perfect and I did perform the turbo shim and software update, but still that sound is here.

Snowman81 you can hear this sound while driving just when your window is down and you are shifting from first to second gear, just after the revs are going down due to clutch pedal depression.

My car is a 2010 model (June) and has 34.500 km on clock.

[Snowman89]

MIne does this sound too. Since day one. They told me that this is normal. Car drives just perfect and I did perform the turbo shim and software update, but still that sound is here.

Snowman81 you can hear this sound while driving just when your window is down and you are shifting from first to second gear, just after the revs are going down due to clutch pedal depression.

My car is a 2010 model (June) and has 34.500 km on clock.

Did you look any more into if there is a chance to get it fixed? Even though they say some cars does this sound it does not sound healthy if you ask me..

The fact that just some cars does this and some doesnt makes me wonder about VAG quality control..

[Greybeard]

Must be something about wastegate design on VAG TSI engines. Text below is from one of the US VW Golf forums ref the similar 2.0 TSI CBFA/CCTA engines but comes from a VW America TSB (I have PDF copy with photo's but haven't yet worked out how to attach stuff here). The same afflicts the CCZA 2.0 TSI's on the European models sold in the UK (mine does it), but not sure if the twin charger 1.4TSI uses the same basic turbo setup / design, so may be a diffeent problem altogether. If you search online you may come across the TSB

".......................

Condition

21 10 01 August 25, 2010 2024061

Rattling Noises From Engine Compartment Area or Exhaust System

Customer may complain of a rattling noise from engine or exhaust are while accelerating from 1800-3000 RPM.

In order to complete proper diagnosis and ensure that the noise is coming from the turbocharger, use the following procedure:

1. Ensure that there is no physical damage internal or external to the turbocharger. If damage is observed, continue diagnosis and repair as necessary. If no damage is observed, proceed to Step 2.

2. Test drive the vehicle to duplicate and familiarise yourself with the noise. Noise can typically be duplicated by driving up a moderate incline, beginning at 35 mph in 4th gear(manual or auto trans) and accelerating through the RPM range of 1800-3000 RPM under moderate to heavy throttle. Obey all local traffic laws.

3. Once you have confirmed and familiarized yourself with the noise, attach a 2 ounce wheel weight to the wastegate actuator rod (figure 1) and take the vehicle for another test drive.

If after attaching the weight to the actuator rod the noise is quieter or has changed pitch, DO NOT replace the turbocharger. Remove the weight, create a VTA ticket in ElsaWeb and contact the Volkswagen Techincal Heplline at 800-678-2389.

If after attaching the weight to the actuator rod the noise has not changed, remove the weight and continue diagnosis and repair as necessary.

Note: Use caution when diagnosing the origin of the noise. Although the noise may be originating from the turbocharger, it can be amplified through resonance to the catalytic converter and be misdiagnosed as a loud converter.

Technical background

Because of exhaust gas pulsations the wastegate flap and actuator rod vibrate at the introduction of boost pressure..................."

The UK TPI no. (for 2.0TSI) is 2028098/1 to fit clip to turbo rod, there's a thread on here about it in the Octy MkII section.

[stratosg]

Did you look any more into if there is a chance to get it fixed? Even though they say some cars does this sound it does not sound healthy if you ask me..

The fact that just some cars does this and some doesnt makes me wonder about VAG quality control..

It does not sound normal to me either and I asked twice, each time when the car was in for service. Same answer by two different dealers. It is my first Skoda that keeps me anxious constantly with rattles, poor headlights, turbo shimming, two erratic mirrors, an oil leak and now with possible cam chain issue plus I am out of warranty. I had two previous Skodas that were great and believe it or not i do like a lot my little white van, it drives fine, it is nippy, economical, spacious but keeps me nervous every now and then.

To be honest i get bored both with dealers and Skoda herself. If they have issues with cam chains they should take the cost of a campaign or a recall or a potential cam chain change regardless if warranty expired especially when i keep my car serviced in time by brand's dealers.

And i do prefer to discuss these issues with all you people here, than Skoda's "handicapped" (unwilling is the best word) personnel (not all of them but i can't search for the best every time) who cannot hear or see the problem that i am referred to. I am sure that you do care for your car as i do while they don't.

Sorry if i offended any of you but i am really tired with all these.

Edited 12 January, 2013 by stratosg

[just music]

My 1.2Tsi 86 has a similar rattle - this was recorded from the driver's open window some months ago: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6xylNpLDgxfUlpJcTN4NDA2OEk/edit. I'm not concerned about it to be honest.

[Snowman89]

A small update..

Talked to Skoda Sweden today and they basicly told me to take this with the dealer which i bought the car from. Since my warranty is with them, not with Skoda. I also received a reply from the "legal advicer" and it seems as if it could be a hit and miss case. Sometimes it would be accepted and sometimes not, so im in some kind of greyzone..

Im not sure on how far i really want to push this since there seem to be some people here with the sound also and they are still running fine. Below is also a video recorded with the driver window down.

Just music- Have old is your car? How many miles/km has it done?

Edited 14 January, 2013 by Snowman89

[just music]

18 months old, 14000 miles. It has made the noise from new and dealer was informed, so it will be on the record if anything happens in the future.

[Snowman89]

18 months old, 14000 miles. It has made the noise from new and dealer was informed, so it will be on the record if anything happens in the future.

Thanks for your reply.

My main concern would be if this rattling would make the turbo to fail earlier than if everything was OK.

If the turbo fails at 50000 miles instead 100000-150000 miles and when the car is out of warranty i highly doubt that they would help you, even though they have it written down. As long as they dont offer you extended warranty on that specific part i dont trust them to replace it after warranty runs out..

[Snowman89]

Today i got a call from the seller that i originally bought the car from. He had done some research and apparently this sound is something that EVERY 1.2 TSI engine makes. Its part of the design and every engine, no matter if its in a Octavia, A1, Ibiza or Fabia, makes it. Some people are more concerned and notices the sound and some people never does..

[Ootohere]

Did you believe him?

What was the reason for needing to do research, do they not sell and drive those cars everyday, do PDI's and services on them?

'Did he not get the 'Confidential Document'?

george

[Snowman89]

Did you believe him?

What was the reason for needing to do research, do they not sell and drive those cars everyday, do PDI's and services on them?

'Did he not get the 'Confidential Document'?

george

To be honest i dont really know.. I think it sounds a bit strange but its hard to argue when ive not tried several 1.2 TSI engines.

Yeah but he wanted to ask the service personal since he is only a salesperson.

Yes he actually called the service department who took a look at the car and they shared the document with him..

I dont really know what to belive, if it actually is a problem with all cars with the 1.2 TSI engine then i will be wasting my time..

But to me it all sounds very fishy..

[Ootohere]

BUMP for superB-Nl.

see post #2.  & post #14....

Edited 7 April, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Ootohere]

bump.