Going Electric... Richard's EV thread.

[BossFox]

It's a J1772 plug.

I believe it has 5 pins.

[gadgetman]

It's a J1772 plug.

I believe it has 5 pins.

I think this was it

[BossFox]

That's a J1772 (left, car end) to Mennekes type 2 (right, AC supply end) lead.

 

I have one for my LEAF so I can plug into public charging stations that are not of the Rapid DC variety.

So it's the slower AC charging all electric cars can do.  But they all need different leads.

That's a Nissan/Renault lead, which I think the Citroen/iMEIV can also use.  But not 100% certain.

[gadgetman]

Personally, the only viable car for me would be a Volt/Ampera.  Electric only just isnt viable enough, and there arent enough resources for it to ever take off (Lithium shortages)

[BossFox]

Personally, the only viable car for me would be a Volt/Ampera.  Electric only just isnt viable enough, and there arent enough resources for it to ever take off (Lithium shortages)

 

Good idea, but flawed as my post earlier on.

I liked the look of it and the theory is sound, so I got a 4 day test drive.

 

1700kg, small battery range of 32 in my experience and then 40-44mpg.

It's too expensive, not going to save enough in petrol to pay for itself and it's heavy and not nice to drive either.

Shame, as it looks far better.

 

All IMO of course.

 

 

Regards Lithium shortages... when they start charging sensible money for it (it's a pittance now) it'll be cost effective to recycle it.

Not ideal, but then what is long term other than Hydrogen which will probably come later.

[Dave89]

I initially considered the Ampera too and soon realised it wasn't going to offer any savings/incentives.  I'm surprised the e-Golf is comparable with the Leaf (and not better).  From 6 months of casual research, VW want to be at the forefront of EVs.  Pricing hasn't been announced yet but reports suggest the e-UP will cost more than the leaf which offers the same real world range as the e-Golf supposedly.

 

And now that I've been made aware that there isn't a 'standard' charging 'plug', I've made zero progress in my do I/don't I debate.  I like the idea that you (BossFox) have incorporated the Leaf into your lifestyle effectively but still own several oil burners.  I however, would be chopping in the oil burner although I could make do with the mrs's Fiat 500 if push came to shove...  (I really despise it!!)

[BossFox]

I like the idea that you (BossFox) have incorporated the Leaf into your lifestyle effectively but still own several oil burners.  I however, would be chopping in the oil burner although I could make do with the mrs's Fiat 500 if push came to shove...  (I really despise it!!)

 

My time with the last LEAF convinced me I could use a LEAF for all my milage, with three clauses.

 

1. I'd have to knock my obsessive car buying and tweaking on the head. (Saving £££)

 

2. I'd have to knock track days on the head. (for obvious reasons, but guess I could rent at the circuit)

 

3. It works because my wife has a Yeti, so if we need to go long distance without charger coverage we can use that.  It's a family car and other than track days any longer distance trips are done together as a family anyway.

 

 

So the only thing that really stops me using a LEAF for all my personal milage is my out of control car hobby.

I am keeping a Yeti to tow a trailer for my Citigo project.

 

Without the car hobby the LEAF would work fine, as part of a two car family with the EV doing most of the miles at little cost and the petrol car doing minimal miles (she's done 2,700 miles in 18 months!) and longer trips when needed.

[domhnall]

 

You just get in the habit of plugging in when you can.

 

just like owning a smart phone then?

[domhnall]

Hmm so I work from home and only use the car for trips to the shops and to pick my son up from my parents on a Friday (they look after him  on Friday afternoons after school) and for a trip to and from Edinburgh airport every week or so (24 mile round trip). My wife has a Golf she uses to travel to and from work which is only 4 mile round trip but she's quit that job so who knows where she'll end up, and for longer family trips we tend to use the camper van as it's a diesel rather than the cars which are both 1.2.

 

So from what you're saying, apart from the cost of buying the thing up front, we could save £££ by buying an EV.

 

thought provoking.........

[BossFox]

So from what you're saying, apart from the cost of buying the thing up front, we could save £££ by buying an EV.

 

thought provoking.........

 

Well logically...

 

VED: £0.

Fuel: next to nothing.

Servicing: £120 per year/18k miles.

Maint: No cambelt, water pump etc... just brakes really which with regen should last a long time.

 

So the only issue is purchace price and depreciation.  As you say.

 

If you buy through a company you can write down the purchase price of an EV at 100% against profits in the first year.

So that's roughtly 20% off the purchase price if you can do that.  It's quite handy.

 

I spend over £3,000 per year on fuel in the Yeti, add depreciation and the LEAF is far cheaper even if you throw it away after 5 years and expect the depreciation to be 100%.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Not ideal, but then what is long term other than Hydrogen which will probably come later.

 

Hydrogen fuel cells also give you "instant" refuelling like fossil fuels.

 

Lets face it, all electric cars are only viable as mass market transport once we have a far more plentiful supply of electricity generation, and that means nuclear fusion.

Once that has been cracked then it's relatively straightforward to start hydrogen production and distribution on an industrial scale.

[domhnall]

hmm but we haven't solved what to do with the waste. The Government has set a target of renewable production to reach 100% of demand by 2020.

 

My house already generates more power than we use (and I'm not in an especially sunny part of the world). As at March 2013 every home in Scotland could have been powered from the 14,600 gigawatts (GW) of electricity which came from renewables including hydro, wave and tidal power.  Renewable sources produced 14,645 gigawatt hours (GWh) of electricity last year, up almost 7 per cent on 2011 and enough to power every home in Scotland. 

 

 

Renewables  now provide 39 per cent of total demand. If we cut down on wasted power (how many needlessly floodlit public buildings and motorway bridges are there?) then it's not an impossible nut to crack.

 

Richard, sadly I can't buy an EV through a company so the price will remain 20% higher for me. BUt still, it's coming to a point where the numbers are getting interesting.

 

Hydrogen fuel cells also give you "instant" refuelling like fossil fuels.

 

Lets face it, all electric cars are only viable as mass market transport once we have a far more plentiful supply of electricity generation, and that means nuclear fusion.

Once that has been cracked then it's relatively straightforward to start hydrogen production and distribution on an industrial scale.

[Thecko]

The problem (currently) with renewables is the question of storage due to the bursty nature of production. With tidal, wind, and solar in particular the issue is that the peaks in production don't necessarily tie in with the peaks for demand - the energy produced where the demand is low must therefore be stored for later release when the demand goes up.

 

There are some interesting approaches to combating it.

[Dave89]

 

My house already generates more power than we use...

 

Domhnall, sorry to go slightly off topic but out of interest, what do you generate in a 24 hour period (average) and via what methods?  I've not looked into solar panels etc but would be interested in the excess produced. I tend to use around 12kWh/day.  I'm intrigued as to how cheap I could charge at home if there were enough excess energy generated to supply either 13, 16 or 32A to the vehicle without paying.  32A is probably a big shout as we'd be talking 7.6kW/h.

 

I like the idea of 'free' and green energy.  Being able to charge at home and away for free utilising solar etc would be another big tick for moving to an EV

[BossFox]

The problem is when you generate it.

Obviously a fair percentage with solar panels is during the day.

 

I have a 4kW system and can charge the car at 2.4kW (10A) or 3.3kW. (16A)

Typically during the weekend, if I'm about and the sky is clear, I leave the car plugged in and 100% of the charge is free.

With my weekly charging done at work I only need to pay for the car's electric use in winter.

[domhnall]

I work from home so it made sense for us to install solar PV. So we tend to consume about 9 Kwh when you average it out. On a sunny day we'll generate about 12. On a cloudy day about 5 or 6. We only installed 6 panels as we already had solar thermal installed when we replaced our boiler. A lot of our neighbours installed double the size of system we have. So in 2011 we had it installed at the start of May, in the 8 months of that year we generated 1057 kwh, in the whole of  2012 we generated 1316 kwh (it was a rubbish summer) and this year we have done 1205 so far.

 

We lost out on some as the inverter wasn't correctly configured and kept shutting down on a random basis. I eventually figured out what was wrong and told Scottish Hydro, they came round to fix it but I also then had to show them how to fix it  :think:

 

Obviously you make less in the winter since there is just so much less daylight. In mid winter it tends to be light enough to generate between about 9am and 3pm.

 

Our panels aren't ideally placed, they face South West rather than due South so even on the sunniest summer day they don't get hit by sun until 11am, and we have some tree shading so the sun is shielded after about 7pm. But short of moving the house or getting the chain saw out there's not a lot I can do. I also found out recently that the really hot weather is not great for solar as the panels don't hit full capacity when they are really hot.

[Dr Zoidberg]

I'm pretty tempted to get solar PV panels at home, but that's a topic for another thread I think.

[domhnall]

I'm sure Richard and I can offer you the benefit of our respective experiences :-)

Sent from my MZ601 using Tapatalk 4

[BossFox]

As of 5pm today using a 4kW set of panels that are South West facing (sun mostly from 11am to 6pm) I am still producing 1,400W and my daily total is 18.05kW.

 

Unfortunately a lot of it goes to "waste", as I get a set fee under the FIT scheme allowing for 50% consumption and 50% exported.

 

That's why I need to get my rear end in gear and get a water heater linked to them, as well as using them to top off my LEAF when it arrives.

[domhnall]

Yikes, we have a 1.8 kw system but only did 4 kwh today as it was so dull and overcast.

Do you have an old meter or a smart one? If it's older then nothing really goes to waste. We're on the same 50:50 assumed split as you.

I presume you mean a fixed rate rather than fee right? You still get paid for every kwh generated?

Sent from my MZ601 using Tapatalk 4

[BossFox]

Yikes, we have a 1.8 kw system but only did 4 kwh today as it was so dull and overcast. Do you have an old meter or a smart one? If it's older then nothing really goes to waste. We're on the same 50:50 assumed split as you. I presume you mean a fixed rate rather than fee right? You still get paid for every kwh generated? Sent from my MZ601 using Tapatalk 4

 

To be honest I don't know Dom.

 

This is the screen from today:  Is it old or new?

 

Because we did it under the old 50:50 FIT scheme (Pre-Dec) it's on the higher rate, but partially offset by a surge in demand and hence more expensive panels.

 

All our hot water is heated by gas, I need to change this as I have a quote for a downrated immersion that will automatically switch on if the spare kW supply exceeds 1.4.

 

Overall we get a bit over £100 back every month, against current month bills of around £30 for electric and £65 for gas.

[domhnall]

Oh that's fancy. No I meant your electricity meter. The old analogue ones go backwards when the sun shines. :-)

Sent from my MZ601 using Tapatalk 4

[BossFox]

Oh that's fancy. No I meant your electricity meter. The old analogue ones go backwards when the sun shines. :-)

 

Ah, new one.

[domhnall]

Bummer :p

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[BossFox]

PV thread now here: http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/286795-domestic-solar-photovoltaic-pv-panels/